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The Case for Theism

Started by DrewM, June 27, 2014, 11:53:22 PM

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DrewM

Moralnihilist,

You think this post makes you look intelligent? It makes you look psychotic. Its not me who should be embarrassed for you, its your fellow atheists who should be embarrassed. You are the poster child for the kind of atheist that sets atheism back 3 steps. I can honestly say I'm happy you're on the atheist side of this debate.

Just curious what would happen if I quoted an atheist on the board with some made up dialog?

the_antithesis


Hijiri Byakuren

Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Moralnihilist

#153
Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 09:20:26 PM
Moralnihilist,

You think this post makes you look intelligent? It makes you look psychotic. Its not me who should be embarrassed for you, its your fellow atheists who should be embarrassed. You are the poster child for the kind of atheist that sets atheism back 3 steps. I can honestly say I'm happy you're on the atheist side of this debate.

Just curious what would happen if I quoted an atheist on the board with some made up dialog?

Actually dick for brains. It makes me look exactly like what I have always claimed to be, an asshole. You see needle dick, frankly I am a nasty individual with a complete lack of fucks given for what people think of me.

Also I am entirely too educated and intelligent of an individual to do anything but mock your retarded ass since you have seen fit to bring this "argument" here. You do realize that this is OUR little home right? Not some theotard safe haven. You present bullshit you get called on said bullshit and continue to spout off said bullshit you get mocked. And if said mocking is done by me, it tends to be rather personal and vile.

In regards to intelligence lets do a poll, do you have a PhD?
Guess what I(and several others here) do.

The only person who should be embarrassed here is your retarded ass. You bring bullshit arguments to a place where people capable of coherent thought congregate. Then when called out for it you then proceed to attempt to tell those same people what constitutes evidence, you then make bullshit claim after bullshit claim and expect us to sit by and allow this to occur in OUR FUCKING HOUSE without reprisal or rebuttal.

As to what would happen if you posted the same level of vitriol directed at one of us, if your argument had one ounce of evidence to back it and somebody refused to acknowledge said valid argument you might have a leg to stand on and could get away with it. We quite often bash each other for dumb shit all the time. But as all you have posted is bullshit, baseless, evidence lacking claims, well your mocking would be handled by that person however they feel like.

SO why don't you grab one of these:


And insert it into your:


Then make it look like this:


Fucktard
Science doesn't give a damn about religions, because "damns" are not measurable units and therefore have no place in research. As soon as it's possible to detect damns, we'll quantize perdition and number all the levels of hell. Until then, science doesn't care.

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
I know you and others will always maintain there is no evidence but you're just talking to yourself.
Courtroom evidence ≠ scientific evidence.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
I never asked you to do anything.
While this is strictly speaking correct, you are fishing for me to provide you "evidence." You don't need evidence. You need an education. Education is a full-time job and I'm not going to get paid one dime for educating you, so forget it. Get educated, then come back and we can have a productive discussion, because then you'll have sufficient background such that you won't be talking out of your ass.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
Hmmm just moments ago you argued more complex things can arise from less complex things. Did you change your mind?
No, you're just uneducated. "Higher order" in this context does not mean "more complex."

Now stop being a smarmy asshole.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
Possibly...in either event the laws of nature we are familiar with wouldn't apply.
If you want there to be a cause that changes a condition of no universe to a condition with a universe, there'd better at least be cause and effect.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
First off, if you want to accuse me of lying...you need to get in back of a long line and wait your turn.

What I am referring to is if only mindless lifeless forces existed...not a universe, no stars, no planets no one would predict that from such forces a universe would come into existence with laws of nature that would subsequently cause stars, solar systems and planets, then life then sentient life.
There are plenty of things we would not predict form the forces of nature, but happen anyway. Like I said before, you're being unable to imagine a scenario happening in a certain way only indicates that you lack the imagination able to grasp it, not that you have any insight on the truth of the matter. I'm waiting for a specific line of reasoning why "mindless, lifeless forces" could not create life and mind.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
I find it interesting that rather than explaining in your own words why the argument in the paper invalidates the fine tuning argument you just post the link. If you firmly understand the paper you cited, you should be able to put it into lay terms so anyone on this board can understand it and agree or disagree with it.
Lay terms? Okay, here it is: a God can create a universe where no life can naturally exist, yet exists anyway. Such a universe would be a dead giveaway supernatural-governed universe. Observing that life exists and the universe is governed by laws that do not allow its existence is a huge support to supernaturalism, and as such observing the contrary data â€"that life exists in the universe and that universe allows for its existenceâ€" cannot support supernaturalism in any form and may serve to undermine it.

Creationists want observing that the universe is fine-tuned to support life to support supernaturalism. They also want observing that the universe is not fine-tuned to support life to support supernaturalism. Ie, they want ANY observation to support supernaturalism, but the rules of evaluating evidence don't work that way. They can have one prong of their argument, but not both.

Now stop being a smarmy asshole.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
More accurately it goes like this. I can't imagine how a transcendent Creator could cause a universe to come into existence therefore I'll accept some other cause.
Is this a personal statement, or just you using "I" as a dummy variable?

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
You can't imagine how a universe could be designed and engineered to exist by a transcendent agent of enormous power there for naturedidit.
Nonsense. I can imagine it just fine. Just no fucking evidence for it.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
You can't imagine how a transcendent agent of enormous power could design the universe to cause galaxies, stars, planets, life and sentient life to exist...therefore mindless lifeless forces without plan or intent caused it to happen by a stroke of incredible luck.
Again, nonsense. I can imagine it just fine. Just no fucking evidence for it.

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
But only because you can't imagine it was planned and designed to happen.
Again, imagination is not the problem. It's the evidence that's the problem.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

DrewM

Moralnihilist

QuoteActually dick for brains. It makes me look exactly like what I have always claimed to be, an asshole. You see needle dick, frankly I am a nasty individual with a complete lack of fucks given for what people think of me.

Can't argue with you there. If I were an atheist I'd distance myself from you.

QuoteThe only person who should be embarrassed here is your retarded ass. You bring bullshit arguments to a place where people capable of coherent thought congregate. Then when called out for it you then proceed to attempt to tell those same people what constitutes evidence, you then make bullshit claim after bullshit claim and expect us to sit by and allow this to occur in OUR FUCKING HOUSE without reprisal or rebuttal.

Considering you have a PHD you should be able to send my ass packing down the road with evidence and reasoned argumentation and even a sense of humor. It can only make one wonder why you need to resort to such tactics if your so much more intelligent. I suppose that leads us back to your first argument.

QuoteThen when called out for it you then proceed to attempt to tell those same people what constitutes evidence, you then make bullshit claim after bullshit claim and expect us to sit by and allow this to occur in OUR FUCKING HOUSE without reprisal or rebuttal.

I started this post laying down a foundation for what qualifies for evidence knowing full well that atheists will claim with their dying breath...there's no evidence in favor of theism. Its a mantra, its a doctrine its core dogma, inviolable world without end...amen. It doesn't change the fact that what qualifies for evidence is a fact that comports with the hypothesis in question. 

If you want to soil yourself by making crude comments knock yourself out, Ive been insulted by better than you. I still think even for a lowlife like yourself, its over the line to falsely quote someone. 

stromboli

The only reason your ass ain't packing is because you are so fucking dense you don't understand that your argument is not only not valid but fails at every point.

You are a fool making a bigger fool of himself. Go home. Go tell your mommy the bad men were mean and suckle some nipple, or maybe let mommy give you a candy bar. You are in so over your head they could dock a fleet of ships above you. You are nothing but a waste of space here.

Moralnihilist

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 10:19:33 PM
Moralnihilist

Can't argue with you there. If I were an atheist I'd distance myself from you.

Considering you have a PHD you should be able to send my ass packing down the road with evidence and reasoned argumentation and even a sense of humor. It can only make one wonder why you need to resort to such tactics if your so much more intelligent. I suppose that leads us back to your first argument.

I started this post laying down a foundation for what qualifies for evidence knowing full well that atheists will claim with their dying breath...there's no evidence in favor of theism. Its a mantra, its a doctrine its core dogma, inviolable world without end...amen. It doesn't change the fact that what qualifies for evidence is a fact that comports with the hypothesis in question. 

If you want to soil yourself by making crude comments knock yourself out, Ive been insulted by better than you. I still think even for a lowlife like yourself, its over the line to falsely quote someone. 


Well shit for brains Im not going anywhere, so why don't you take your needle dick and get your retarded ass down the road.

And as I have said before, and I shall repeat yet again. When you come to an atheist forum intent to convince atheists that your imaginary friend is real YOU don't set the standard of what is or is not evidence. The standard of evidence HERE is scientifically valid evidence. You making a claim and proclaiming it as evidence don't worker here cocksucker.

As to me being a "lowlife", yea about that. Wasn't too much of a lowlife when I was balls deep in your mother.

Whats the matter bitch? Don't like it when people say that they fucked your ugly crackhead of a mother? Then I tell you what, why don't you just fuck off and go play in traffic. As I stated before I am an asshole. But your mother... That bitch likes it in hers.
Science doesn't give a damn about religions, because "damns" are not measurable units and therefore have no place in research. As soon as it's possible to detect damns, we'll quantize perdition and number all the levels of hell. Until then, science doesn't care.

Shol'va

#158
I know I am very late to the party and unfortunately haven't had time other than the first 3 and last 2 pages, but I have a very simple question for you DrewM. If you have strong evidence for theism, where's your Nobel and why are you here?
And I'll add further.

You said:
"To think a judge wouldn't allow me to cite the existence of the universe when I am alleging the universe was caused to exist by God would be the same as suggesting a dead body isn't evidence in a murder case."

The problem is you are, in your own words, ALLEGING. And you are doing so without good reasons that someone or something you haven't properly framed, explained, defined but gave it a label (God), that is responsible possibly, maybe, perhaps, plausible, creator for unknown reasons of the reality we exist in. Your proposition has absolutely no explanatory power and you are putting forth an incomprehensible argument.
So yours is not an apt analogy at all.

hrdlr110

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 09:20:26 PM
Moralnihilist,

You think this post makes you look intelligent? It makes you look psychotic. Its not me who should be embarrassed for you, its your fellow atheists who should be embarrassed. You are the poster child for the kind of atheist that sets atheism back 3 steps. I can honestly say I'm happy you're on the atheist side of this debate.

Just curious what would happen if I quoted an atheist on the board with some made up dialog?

You're quoting made up dialogue from your stupid fucking bible and other stupid fucking theists you dipshit, stop being a hypocritical asshole!
Q for theists; how can there be freewill and miracles? And, how can prayer exist in an environment as regimented as "gods plan"?

"I'm a polyatheist, there are many gods I don't believe in." - Dan Fouts

Nam

Quote from: DrewM on June 30, 2014, 10:19:33 PM
I started this post laying down a foundation for what qualifies for evidence knowing full well that atheists will claim with their dying breath...there's no evidence in favor of theism.

That's your problem. See, a logical person (atheist or theist or anyone else) would conclude that evidence is defined as:

the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

A fact is defined as:

A thing that is indisputably the case.

Indisputably is defined as:

Incontestable: not open to question; obviously true.

Are you honestly saying you have provided such evidence? Or, are you providing evidence solely based upon what you believe is true which is based on a book or ideas most of which is unverifiable?

I think the latter, definitely not the former.

(def. by google)

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

no-excuses

#161
well this guy is saying that he is not here to prove that god exist. He is here to tell us his opinion which is he believes in God. He proceed further to introduce three facts, then he says that is why god exist.
First of all, you mentioned that you are an ex-athiest...I wonder if you were a theist that turned to an atheist and then again to a theist! if that is the case, you seem to be fluctuating in that area. I wonder why? the fact that you are here making a tremendous effort to defend your opinion is a cry for attention, I believe.
let us get to your points, you don't seem to be following a particular religion. It will be great if you tell us what religion you follow if any. It will be way easier to rip you a part that way.
debating fundamental facts such as universe and life is like the debate between republican and democrat you can choose any side,facts are obscure.

Good for you if you believe in a creator that you don't know anything about because you don't have any means to examine. good for you and your fellow thiests on your amazing blind faith, keep god in your heart. He/she/it will save you.
Don't fuckin dare to put your filthy shit in evolution and claim it to your god. the only reason you believe in evolution is because it is a fact. guess what, it wasn't always a fact it was a theory and human proved it. and then you came along to say that god is supervising it or whatever.
You should be proud of yourself to be able to solve the mystery of the universe, at least in your opinion, who nobody in this place gives a shit about.

I don't want to believe in god because of my brain. The only reason we created gods, in the first place, was because of our revolutionary intelligence. It is the price we pay for being this damn clever.

Nam

I never believe a Christian who says, "I used to be an atheist." In my opinion, 99% of Christians who say that are just attempting to actually say, "You can change like I did." But if they were an atheist like us then you'd think they'd know the game beforehand. None of them ever seem to.

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Mister Agenda

Welcome, DrewM. The case you've made thus far rests on affirming the consequent.

If God, then the universe.
The universe, therefore God.

This syllogism suffers from the same flaw as this one:

If I am Bill Gates, I am rich.
I am rich, therefore I am Bill Gates.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

SGOS

Quote from: the_antithesis on June 30, 2014, 08:46:25 PM
What the fuck does transcendent mean?
Something incomprehensible, but very important.  If you question a transcendent principle, you lose the argument, for lack of spiritualness.