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The Case for Theism

Started by DrewM, June 27, 2014, 11:53:22 PM

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aitm

A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

stromboli

So......

1. the universe exists

2. Life exists

still first cause and still nothing. Wow.

(edit) Sorry aitm, i posted before I saw yours.  :naughty:

aitm

Quote from: stromboli on June 28, 2014, 06:56:42 PM
So......

1. the universe exists

2. Life exists

still first cause and still nothing. Wow.

(edit) Sorry aitm, i posted before I saw yours.  :naughty:

:axe:
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Moralnihilist

Science doesn't give a damn about religions, because "damns" are not measurable units and therefore have no place in research. As soon as it's possible to detect damns, we'll quantize perdition and number all the levels of hell. Until then, science doesn't care.

DrewM

Hello Moralnihilist

Quotethe only honest answer currently available is "I don't know." anything else is bullshit or opinion.

In your opinion it wasn't due to God, in mine it was.

secondly if I were to reject the belief that God created the universe and humans I would have to be persuaded that mindless lifeless forces somehow coughed a universe into existence and without plan or intent caused the right conditions for sentient life to exist.I'd have to believe that life and mind without plan or intent emerged from something totally unlike itself, mindless lifeless forces.

QuoteAs that is the only one that currently is backed by any sort of evidence(even if only scientifically theoretical)

Scientific theory isn't evidence.

QuoteWrong...

Most couldn't care less what you believe, most just don't want YOUR bullshit shoved down their throats.

Is it your wish that only atheists post to this board or do you wish to have open dialog? Our differences of viewpoint are philosophical only. I'm posting to have a debate, not convert anyone. Theism is a philosophy not a religion.

QuoteEver hear of evolution?

Heard of it and subscribe to it. Evolution in and of itself is a fact and can be offered as evidence. As it stands now, I could make a better case for atheism than the atheists thus far. First thing I'd do is drop the ridiculous atheism as a lack of belief definition.

QuoteCircumstantial evidence can be dismissed quite easily. It lacks repeatability. Without that all I am left with is you claiming to have seen something, and again I have no reason to believe anything that you claim(much less something as outlandish as a god)

I didn't claim to have seen something, I claim to live in a universe in which life exists and I can believe we are the intentional result of a Creator or the equally if not more outlandish claim we are the result of mindless forces that didn't intend to create a universe or one of the complexity required to create and support life. It just happened by accident.

I won’t bother refuting theories offered in support of the theory God doesn’t exist.

QuoteAnd right there is where you lose your argument.

IF you can't be bothered to refuting counters to your "logic" then all you are here to do is preach at us.
And fucktard that is against the rules.

Why are you so emotional? Did some religious person put a clothespin on your pee pee?

Hello Johan

QuoteNow if you want to argue that you choose to believe there is a god simply because you've decided that god existing is the most plausible answer, bully for you. But if that's the case, then what do you hope to gain by coming here? You must already know that you won't convince anyone here that you're right. And as far as I can tell, you don't seem to have any desire to be convinced that your line of thinking is wrong. So why are  you here

Originally I came to this discussion board because the top billing says Atheist Forums a community website for freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and believers I'm beginning to think its true minus the believers part. From the moment I made my introduction I was challenged to make my case for theism and I've been threatened with being banned since.

Of course given the available evidence I have come to the conclusion our existence and that of the universe is more likely due to the intentional act of a Creator than the result of mindless forces that just happened to get it right. The only thing I hope to gain is the satisfaction of knowing I can make a reasonable rational case for theism even on a hostile atheist board. Besides its supposed to be fun and would be if you folks didn't take it so seriously. All we have is a philosophical difference of opinion about something neither of us can be sure of.



Nam

Quote from: the_antithesis on June 28, 2014, 01:19:51 PM
Why do these pillocks always go for the first cause thing?

Because they're idiots?

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Poison Tree

Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 07:36:30 PM
Scientific theory isn't evidence.
Scientific theories are built on lots of evidence
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

Nam

Quote from: josephpalazzo on June 28, 2014, 02:05:09 PM
The evidence is: I think it's true, therefore it must be true... shades of Gasparov...

...but doesn't mean it's true. Opinions are not evidence.

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Nam

Quote from: Nam on June 28, 2014, 07:47:05 PM
...but doesn't mean it's true. Opinions are not evidence.

-Nam

I'm sorry, I thought this was a reply by the idiot. Still...

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Johan

Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 07:36:30 PM
The only thing I hope to gain is the satisfaction of knowing I can make a reasonable rational case for theism even on a hostile atheist board.
You haven't done that.

QuoteBesides its supposed to be fun and would be if you folks didn't take it so seriously.
And it was fun the first couple hundred times theists like you came here. But debating their flawed logic gets kind of old after a while.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

DrewM

The only thing I hope to gain is the satisfaction of knowing I can make a reasonable rational case for theism even on a hostile atheist board.

QuoteYou haven't done that.

Well I haven't quite finished yet either...but to my satisfaction anyway.

QuoteAnd it was fun the first couple hundred times theists like you came here. But debating their flawed logic gets kind of old after a while.

Listening to the endless dribble of atheists convincing each other their right gets old too I would think.

Hijiri Byakuren


Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 08:26:02 PM
The only thing I hope to gain is the satisfaction of knowing I can make a reasonable rational case for theism even on a hostile atheist board.
Yeah, good luck with that. You still haven't addressed my post.


Sent from Monster Island. Titty sprinkles.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

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Nam

He can prove theism exists he just can't prove what theism is defined as as existing.

-Nam
Mad cow disease...it's not just for cows, or the mad!

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 08:26:02 PM
Listening to the endless dribble of atheists convincing each other their right gets old too I would think.
Yeah, I suppose it would seem like that to an unsinkable rubber duck.

So far, both your arguments boil down to an appeal to ignorance: you observe there is a universe, but you don't know how such a thing can come about without intelligent intervention, therefore something like a God (never mind you never explain how such a thing like the universe could come about even with intelligent intervention); you observe there is life, but you don't know how life could come about through non-life without intelligent intervention, therefore something like a God (again, never mind you never explain how life could come about even with intelligent intervention). These are not productive avenues of discussion.

For the origin of life, we actually have a pretty good grasp how it could come about without intelligent intervention. We've known for about a hundred years that life boils down to chemistry, and atomic matter is governed by chemistry, life or no. There is no sharp division between things with life and things without as you imagine it, at least as far as nature is concerned.

As to the origin of the universe, while it may be trickier to tackle, I find it ludicrous that a bunch of near-ignorant goat herders had anything approaching the truth, owing to their poor score in every other testable matter of fact.
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