Swordfight in India

PickelledEggs · June 06, 2014, 05:15:14 PM

https://news.vice.com/article/swordfight-erupts-at-sikh-temple-in-india?utm_source=vicenewsfb

QuoteA violent sword fight broke out between two rival Sikh groups at Indiaâ€™s Golden Temple in Punjab today.

According to local reports, up to 12 people were injured in the fighting that took place at the holiest shrine in the Sikh religion.

Video footage shows dozens of Sikh men fighting and chasing each other with swords on the steps outside the shrine.

Shiranu · June 06, 2014, 05:53:22 PM

It's always a smart idea to let people walk around with weapons of war at their waist, especially when it's in the name of their religion...

PickelledEggs · June 06, 2014, 06:20:24 PM

I kind of feel like an asshole for asking this, but are those really cheap swords or something? That one guy hits the other guy's arm at one point and it doesn't even go through the shirt.

Poison Tree · June 06, 2014, 07:54:15 PM

Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 06, 2014, 06:20:24 PM
I kind of feel like an asshole for asking this, but are those really cheap swords or something? That one guy hits the other guy's arm at one point and it doesn't even go through the shirt.

the wire service (or was it the AP?) referred to them as "ceremonial swords" so it is possible that they were not sharp. One guy also had his blade come loose from the handle. It didn't look like the blade broke, rather it flew off intact.

PickelledEggs · June 06, 2014, 07:59:51 PM

Quote from: Poison Tree on June 06, 2014, 07:54:15 PM
the wire service (or was it the AP?) referred to them as "ceremonial swords" so it is possible that they were not sharp. One guy also had his blade come loose from the handle. It didn't look like the blade broke, rather it flew off intact.

Ok well that's good.

Sent via your mom.

Aupmanyav · June 10, 2014, 11:49:44 PM

They are sharp (enough to cut the throat), the man must have been injured in the arm. But obviously, one was not very well joined at the handle, there are so many manufacterers. It is a must at the time of marriage in Rajasthan also (ceremonial). The separatists were led by a police officer who resigned at the time of insurrection 30 years ago (Simranjeet Singh Mann). The person is out in the woods since then. He thought he would rule Punjab one day. Much water has flowed in the River Ravi since then. Indira Gandhi's Congress has been dethroned. Punjab is ruled by a coalition of Akali Dal, the Sikh party, and the Hindu Party, Bharatiya Janata Party, with Narendra Modi at the helm. The sword fight was a come-back attempt which failed. However, the Sikh Party is not ruling Punjab well, people are not satisfied. The coalition could win only 6 of the 13 seats in the recent parliamentary elections.

Mr.Obvious · June 11, 2014, 03:13:16 AM

There is no "Eastern" solution.
- Hitchens, Christopher

Hitchens, R. (2008). God is not Great (p.233). New York: Twelve.

Aupmanyav · June 11, 2014, 04:06:26 AM

Well, the solution is to continue in spite of all obstructions and not to lose the sight of one's 'dharma'. :)

Jason78 · June 11, 2014, 07:07:45 AM

Quote from: Poison Tree on June 06, 2014, 07:54:15 PM
the wire service (or was it the AP?) referred to them as "ceremonial swords" so it is possible that they were not sharp. One guy also had his blade come loose from the handle. It didn't look like the blade broke, rather it flew off intact.

That's a bit crap.

Aupmanyav · June 11, 2014, 09:15:10 PM

"Dharma' is the rules of the society. Is it wrong to follow the social rules? Don't you follow the rules of your society?

Mr.Obvious · June 12, 2014, 03:03:40 AM

Quote from: Aupmanyav on June 11, 2014, 09:15:10 PM
"Dharma' is the rules of the society. Is it wrong to follow the social rules? Don't you follow the rules of your society?

Depends on the rules :p

But I see what you mean.

Problem is that 'religiousness', be it in the West, the East or wherever, can motivate and (seemingly) justify actions that break rules that should be secular.

Aupmanyav · June 12, 2014, 09:25:54 PM

Rules in Indian religions (including Hinduism) are secular; because, basically, they do not relate to religion, but to the society. Gods and Goddesses do not make rules, they strongly support them.

Mr.Obvious · June 13, 2014, 03:45:03 AM

As they should be. It should always be clear that human rules are human's rules. I'm not saying that rules in Indian countries aren't manmade. If that's how you interpreted it, my bad.
Of course I doubt that they are not partly religious, because one could say that rules in the West are also secular. And for the most part they are. But you can't ignore the Christianity-themed formation of those societies. And in some of the more religious Western countries even some rules inspired by inspiration from scripture. Even in modern day. Same goes for countries themed with different religions. Take for instance the caste-system in India, it may be officialy gone now, but it's effects linger even in modern day. It was a rule on how to form society, but it was religiously inspired and founded.
But that's a sidetrack. What I'm mostly trying to say is just that religious fervor makes people think they can break societies secular rules. That's true in the West and the East. Take people bombing abortion-clinics in the West or Sikh-swordfights in the East.
If one were not to break the dharma, or the secular rules, or whatever... or at least not break those secular rules which are worth a damn, ... I wouldn't so much have a problem with religions. I would still disagree and debate if the topic came to it, but I wouldn't have so much of a problem. But, just like in the West, in the East conflict and violence and the infringement of basic human rights such as personal safety, the right to live, ... arise when people hold their religious ideas over the worth of societies rules.
Many 'spiritual' people in the West think of HinduÃ¯sm and Buddhism and see them as the 'calm' and 'sane' religions. But that's because it's farther removed from them and they do not know of the violence and hatred zealotism in these religions have led to. They look at these religions as a novelty without realizing they are truly fully-fledged religions with their own history and effects and their own grip on society that so many loosely 'spiritual' Westeners dispise of organized Christianity.

Aupmanyav · June 14, 2014, 08:45:38 AM

Further to my post, even Gods and Goddesses have to go by 'dharma'. Their overstepping Dharma is also looked down upon and pointed to as a bad example. For example, Rama's killing of Monkey king Bali while hiding behind a tree and Krishna's encouragement to Bheema to hit below the belt to kill Duryodhana of the Kauravas. 'Dharma' rules in all Indian religions (Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism) are basically humanitarian and common.

As for castes, it was something that one was born with, but the belief was that following dharma, even a low-caste could attain higher caste and prosperous life. The low castes had their own functions but nobody was supposed to ill-treat them. Some who started as servants, improved their situation and remained in contact with us for generations. The son of one of our low caste servants became a racing jockey in Mumbai and became prosperous. They were like uncles and aunts to me and were always respected.

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Swordfight in India