New here, I have a question

[NothingIsSound]

Hi all,

I'm a senior in high school, I was raised in a very religious home, my parents taught me Christianity from an early age, and they believe it with all their hearts. I became agnostic about eighteen months ago and have essentially pretended to be a Christian to my family to avoid tension. Part of the reason I'm doing this is that I don't want my parents to up the indoctrination on my younger siblings because they are scared of them falling away like me. Another part of the reason is that I don't want my parents to live the rest of their life scared that I am going to hell. Then of course there's the issue that they might get rather angry with me as well. The issue with not telling them is that if I don't explain my beliefs to them, I feel as if I'm lying to them, mostly passively, but sometimes I have to lie actively to keep up the facade. On top of this, I have very different political and social views than my parents. They are very conservative because of their beliefs, whereas I am a liberal. I don't want my parents teaching my younger siblings that gay people are evil or that abortion is murder. What if one of them discovers they are gay? Why should they have to think that there's something wrong with them, or that their sexuality is something that needs to be un-learned. Why should my sister believe that she doesn't have the right to her own body, especially if she gets pregnant? I just have trouble letting them be taught things that are wrong, and I've gotten increasingly worried that if I don't speak up soon that they might never get the chance to break out of the mold in their young age. So I've decided to write a paper, or a mini book of sorts explaining and defending what I believe to them. I have only just begun, but I have been researching a wide range of topics related to religion, faith, science and other related things. One thing I have yet to find, but that I know exists, is examples of things that people thought god was responsible for, but then science came along and proved that it was actually science and not God that was responsible for whatever it was.
So my question is two fold- 1) How should I handle the situation with my family, and 2) Can you think of any examples of things that science proved were not the result of god or miracles.

Thanks for your time!
Steve

[PickelledEggs]

Hi Steve! Welcome! :)

My answer to question 1 is: you need to figure out if your parents are open minded in spite of them being very religious. If they are, I would try coming out. Not as an attempt to deconvert them, but just to put it out there so they know. That way they can grow comfortable with you being a nonbeliever. And I would leave it at that for now.

If they aren't open-minded. I don't know if I would touch it. You may have to wait to see what other people did in a situation where family members aren't open minded.

As for question 2: i think everyone in this forum will agree that we have ample scientific research we know of that shows zero evidence of God. The trouble is with theists is the issue of cognitive dissonance. (in other less technical words, they're stubborn and don't let facts get in the way of their faith.)

Enjoy your stay!

Sent via your mom

[Mr.Obvious]

I think regarding your first question, there will be others on this forum who've been in more or less the same boat as you. I never had that problem, so I won't try to advice you from personal experience. I will, however, wish you the best of luck.
Regarding your second question. There are some natural phenomena that people used to attribute to God, such as rain or lightning or earthquakes and tsunami's (some people still do this for these last two). But science has shown how and why these phenomena happen. Another thing is that quite often, when people get better after illness and they thank God, it's actually  the doctor they should be thanking. One last one I would share is that 'unusual' things happen all the time. With so many occurances and so many people, we are bound to come across things happening to us or those around us that we do not comprehend or interpret differently. This, however, does not make it a miracle.

Welcome Steve. Hope you enjoy it here.

[pioteir]

It's a delicate situation You're in but wether You "come out" as a nonbeliever or not Your siblings will get indoctrinated. So wait a bit and see if You can find advice from people who were in a similar position and then decide what to do.
Even if Your parents get upset or go heavier on Your siblings You can always talk with Your siblings and teach them reason. Part of the indoctrination is that nobody shows kids a different path, a different way of thinking. You can talk to them from Your own perspective or show them some videos of Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins or any other thinker that represents reason. If they learn to question things the indoctrination will become less effective.

Here's a vid of DeGrasse Tyson talking a bit about scientific discoveries and invoking god. It addresses intelligent design but overall is about what people (even top scientists) tend to do when they hit a wall of understanding and wander into domain of ignorance. If not for Your parents it will be a good lesson for Your siblings and You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASmQmYX-71Q

Enjoy and welcome. I think You will find this forum helpful.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Proof" is irrelevant.

[Johan]

Welcome to forum. You are among friends here.

So I've decided to write a paper, or a mini book of sorts explaining and defending what I believe to them.

I think I'd recommend against this. First off I assume the them you're referring to is your younger siblings. There is probably no upside to coming out to your parents at this point and there is definitely no upside to coming out to your parents via a book  you wrote. But if you write anything down (even on a computer), put your own name on it and then give it so someone else, you have absolutely no control over where it could end up after that. So anything written for your siblings could easily end up being seen by your parents. If that turned out the be the case, then everything you feared about your parents being harder on your siblings in an effort to save them would very likely come true. But it would probably be even worse because your parents would have hard evidence that you are actively trying to convert your siblings.

Writing anything down yourself is just not the best way to get this done IMO. Plus for all you know, your siblings may well believe and want to believe. If that's the case, who are you to say they should do anything different?

The best you can do I think is to educate yourself first. Obviously, you would want to do this in secret as much as possible. If you have some sort of mp3 player that is yours and yours alone (preferably password protection capability), get yourself some audio books and bone up on them. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are probably good places to start.

Arm yourself with knowledge first. Then as you're able, take your siblings aside and speak to them in confidence. But pay careful attention to this next part as its importance cannot be emphasized enough. Your goal should NOT be to convert your siblings to your way of thinking. Your goal should only be to enlighten them to the fact that there are alternatives to religion out there and that they can (not should) explore those alternatives themselves and make up their own minds if they so desire.

[Island Breeze]

Welcome to forum. You are among friends here.

<snip...>

Wow...what a great response and advice from Johan.

I really don't have much to offer but Johan has such wise words.

Umm... but if I may say this.... my Dad who was my hero and my best friend, died a few months ago.  He loved me more than anything and did the very best he could for me.  I was in want for nothing and am the luckiest daughter to have such a wonderful father.    I miss him  so very much, and it's lonely without him; he was always there for me.  He was a reasonable, quiet, simple man who loved dogs and people....he did believe in the Christian God about Christ.  I never did tell him that I was an atheist, and while he wouldn't be angry with me, it may have concerned him.  I'm glad he didn't know as he slipped quietly to a peaceful death.......unworried about me.

It didn't make a difference at all in the "very end."   It's our behavior and not our beliefs that make us "good" people.

Thanks for letting me share that. 

[NothingIsSound]

Thanks everybody for the replies, they've been fantastic.

Welcome to forum. You are among friends here.

I think I'd recommend against this. First off I assume the them you're referring to is your younger siblings. There is probably no upside to coming out to your parents at this point and there is definitely no upside to coming out to your parents via a book  you wrote. But if you write anything down (even on a computer), put your own name on it and then give it so someone else, you have absolutely no control over where it could end up after that. So anything written for your siblings could easily end up being seen by your parents. If that turned out the be the case, then everything you feared about your parents being harder on your siblings in an effort to save them would very likely come true. But it would probably be even worse because your parents would have hard evidence that you are actively trying to convert your siblings.

Writing anything down yourself is just not the best way to get this done IMO. Plus for all you know, your siblings may well believe and want to believe. If that's the case, who are you to say they should do anything different?

The best you can do I think is to educate yourself first. Obviously, you would want to do this in secret as much as possible. If you have some sort of mp3 player that is yours and yours alone (preferably password protection capability), get yourself some audio books and bone up on them. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are probably good places to start.

Arm yourself with knowledge first. Then as you're able, take your siblings aside and speak to them in confidence. But pay careful attention to this next part as its importance cannot be emphasized enough. Your goal should NOT be to convert your siblings to your way of thinking. Your goal should only be to enlighten them to the fact that there are alternatives to religion out there and that they can (not should) explore those alternatives themselves and make up their own minds if they so desire.

On the subject of the paper, I should have been more clear. My plan was that if I came out to my parents I would give them the paper, and if I didn't then no one except my friends would see it. You're totally right that I shouldn't be trying to convert my siblings, or my parents for that matter. My goal in showing my parents the paper is so that they can understand that I have a thought process behind what I hold to be true. My Dad is an engineer, so he understands the idea of logical thought and I think that he especially might be able to accept my beliefs better if he saw that I had taken the time to explain them to him. Also I'll take a listen to Dawkins and Hitchens, I've seen Hitchens do some debates before, and I've read a little bit of Dawkins but I haven't really explored them, so thanks for the suggestion!

[stromboli]

Hi all,

I'm a senior in high school, I was raised in a very religious home, my parents taught me Christianity from an early age, and they believe it with all their hearts. I became agnostic about eighteen months ago, and have essentially pretended to be a Christian to my family to avoid tension. Part of the reason I'm doing this is that I don't want my parents to up the indoctrination on my younger siblings, because they are scared of them falling away like me. Another part of the reason is that I don't want my parents to live the rest of their life scared that I am going to hell. Then of course, there's the issue that they might get rather angry with me as well.

The issue with not telling them is that if I don't explain my beliefs to them, I feel as if I'm lying to them, mostly passively, but sometimes I have to lie actively to keep up the facade. On top of this, I have very different political and social views than my parents. They are very conservative because of their beliefs, whereas I am a liberal. I don't want my parents teaching my younger siblings that gay people are evil or that abortion is murder. What if one of them discovers they are gay? Why should they have to think that there's something wrong with them, or that their sexuality is something that needs to be un-learned.

Why should my sister believe that she doesn't have the right to her own body, especially if she gets pregnant? I just have trouble letting them be taught things that are wrong, and I've gotten increasingly worried that if I don't speak up soon that they might never get the chance to break out of the mold in their young age. So I've decided to write a paper, or a mini book of sorts explaining and defending what I believe to them. I have only just begun, but I have been researching a wide range of topics related to religion, faith, science and other related things.

One thing I have yet to find, but that I know exists, is examples of things that people thought god was responsible for, but then science came along and proved that it was actually science and not God that was responsible for whatever it was.
So my question is two fold- 1) How should I handle the situation with my family, and 2) Can you think of any examples of things that science proved were not the result of god or miracles.

Thanks for your time!
Steve

Um, I took the liberty of doing some editing on your OP for more clarity.

To answer your first question, you are not alone. Several people here are in the same boat, and many people that have previously been here as well. You need to first of all step back and look at the big picture. It is not just the parents and the setting you live in, but the community as well. And you have to look long term at what you can accomplish in your situation. You will not be in high school and under your parent's dominion forever, and neither will your sister. It has been my experience that peple in these situations tend to look at them from an "I gotta fix it NOW!" prespective, when that may not be possible. And don't forget the world at large is becoming more secular all the time.

Any direct action you take towards your parents will only harden their resolve. You might be better playing up agnosticism and doubt to open avenues of discussion, and include your sister. She is smart enough to draw her own conclusions. Think a more stealthy approach over a direct one.

For part 2, start here:
http://godisimaginary.com/video12.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/18/opinion/la-oe-thompson-atheism-20110718

What you are referring to is god of the gaps, quote:

"God of the gaps is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. The term was invented by Christian theologians not to discredit theism but rather to point out the fallacy of relying on teleological arguments for God's existence.[1] Some use the phrase to refer to a form of the argument from ignorance fallacy."

the problem with the argument is that as we learn more, the gaps get smaller or disappear entirely. Scientists like Sean Carol and Stephen Hawking have developed models of the universe that did not require god to create it. Quantum Machanics can describe a non-god universe.

God has never knowingly cured an amputee by regrowing a limb. Faith healing doesn't work- if it did, there would be faith healing clinics in every hospital.
God has never cured any disease, changed the course of a river or magically shored up a crumbling dam to stop a flood, changed the course of a tornado to prevent destroying a church or school, or any other miracle that can be identified as one.

The god of today can only magically reverse diseases that by percentages are capable of reversing themselves. God did not create the miracles of medicine, science did.

Here is a fact: Prior to the renaissance and the invention of the microscope, human populations in the world were stagnant, because of the lack of knowledge of medicine and health issues. Death rates at birth were at the 50% level or higher.

After the discovery of the microscope and the subsequent advances in medicine, huamn population growth increased and people lived longer. There is a direct correlation between advances in science and the reduction of death rates at birth and people living longer.

Hope that helped. Be patient and be strong.

[Solitary]

Welcome aboard NothingIsSound! I've never had that problem, but feel for you. I don't know if science has shown there are no miracles, but I think professional magicians have. Solitary

[Berati]

Hi, hope you like the forums,

I've gotten increasingly worried that if I don't speak up soon that they might never get the chance to break out of the mold in their young age. So I've decided to write a paper, or a mini book of sorts explaining and defending what I believe to them.

I strongly recommend not doing this. You were able to break out of the mold so give your siblings some credit that they may be as capable as you. Maybe drop some subtle hints in the form of questions to them from time to time, but if you try to convince them yourself, they may go straight to Mom and Dad. If your parents even suspect that you are trying to undermine their teachings it will cause huge problems for you and not accomplish a single thing. Parents HATE it when someone tries to teach their children something they don't believe, even if its one of the other children.

As far as your parents go, don't rock the boat and keep your beliefs private while you still live at home and are still a dependant. You don't need to tell them everything you're thinking. Keep some thoughts private. The only exception is if they are really extremist and there is some sort of abuse involved. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

My goal in showing my parents the paper is so that they can understand that I have a thought process behind what I hold to be true. My Dad is an engineer, so he understands the idea of logical thought and I think that he especially might be able to accept my beliefs better if he saw that I had taken the time to explain them to him

The truth is that religion is not a matter of constructing rational arguments. Your parents did not reason their way into their beliefs and you will not be able to reason them out of those beliefs or even convince them that you have rational reasons to abandon what they believe is best for you. Ask anyone here how many fundamentalists they have convinced through logic and reason to give up their religion.
If you try to convince them they're wrong by putting forth all the rational and reasonable arguments we can supply you with, it will only drive a wedge between you and your family and you can't afford that at this time.

Be patient and wait until you're self sufficient. The best way to show your parents and siblings that atheism isn't the work of the devil is to be a happy, successful and independent person.

[JohnD]

  Welcome to our world Steve. If your parents have strong beliefs then, as you say, it could lead to unnecessary confrontations which in turn could escalate. If i was you i would drip feed my disinterest over a long period, it worked for me. Maybe in time you can debate the ever increasing topics which  disprove the existence of God.

  I have still yet to understand why Christians who practice Christian beliefs are so hung up on gays. If gays are evil and they, the Christian,  was in a life or death situation, would they refuse help from someone they knew was gay? Would they let a gay medical specialist treat their dying child, knowing that his/her skill could save that child? Aren't they supposed to to love their fellow man?  Man the hypocrisy!!

I'm a big fan of Christopher Hitchens, one of the great Athiest / Anti-theist debaters. You may already know of him, but if you don't he is an incredible orator and it's worth following his Youtube links  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjKJ92b9Y04

Good luck