Atheist Sprituality - Oxymoronic or Just Plain Moronic?

[Kamonohashi]

I'm curious to know what the people participating in this forum think of the topic of spirituality. That term can be used in so many different ways as to render it virtually meaningless unless the person useing it defines what they're talking about clearly. By "spirituality," I don't mean religious dogma or religious practice. I don't mean new age woo woo. I don't mean the pseudoscience- dogma mix of many pre-scientific but non-theistic religions. I'm not talking about "the supernatural," or magical non-physical entities or forces, either. Finally, I'm not even talking about warm, fuzzy feelings-- though that is a dimension of spirituality that I think is worth considering.

Doesn't that leave out everything, then? No, the above doesn't exclude a search for meaning-- existential meaning-- searching for meaning in human existence or in one's life. Nor does it exclude attempts at transcendence of the ego, self-centered perception and self-centered behavior. (Practicing forgiveness, performing random acts of kindness, running a soup kitchen, volunteering in third world countries, studying Zen meditation, etc.)

In my experience, there will be people who read this and know what I'm talking about, but most of the individuals who read this will insist that there's nothing to spirituality EXCEPT dogma, nonsense, pseudoscience, and woo woo.

I'm writing this because I'd like to know how many people here know what I'm talking about, or are open-minded enough to want to know what I'm talking about. Essentially, I'm just doing a head count for kindred spirits. (Yes, there's the "s" word again. As I'm using it here, it's a metaphor.)

[aitm]

I remember vividly a day when a tougher cousin knocked me down in my backyard and chuckled and then had the audacity to put a foot to my cat later that afternoon....how i hated that fucker but could do little about it. And then the next day as he and his family walked out the door to leave and he jab stepped at the cat on the porch and the cat jumped away and he laughed, and the two or three seconds that are locked in my mind forever as that cat spun around and clawed up his back over his head down his face and shot off into the woods leaving that bastard screaming and dripping in blood.......

later that same tom-cat came back and stood over my head as I layed in the grass looking into the sky and lay next to me....buddies.

I lost a great deal of respect for humanity and gained a great deal for our fellows those few days, when I began to appreciate the very special bond that we had with other species. Other species.  And now we find, as I have postulated many years earlier that animals raised together do not have such a blood thirsty need to kill their friends as we once thought. Animals must train their young to kill. Perhaps it is not instinct at all.

Spirituality, in my opinion, is simply another of humanites grandiose ideas that we are something great and special to the universe, when we, like our "friends" are simply nothing. Not the warm and fuzzy you want, but probably a little closer to the truth than you will ever prove.

We are indeed simply carbon based life forms on a mote of dust in a universe so vast our planet is  118/ the size of an atom to the universe as our planet is to it. Live well, it will be your only experience.

[Sargon The Grape]

I think it's a word used by pseudo-intellectuals who want to sound smart without having to do any real learning.

[Berati]

In my experience, there will be people who read this and know what I'm talking about

I think I know what you're talking about but I have trouble with the word spirituality as I have no supernatural beliefs of any kind.

I would say that I think some things are worth veneration. For example, a good friend of mine has been working for years running group homes for severely handicapped adults. These are adults who are often both very physically and mentally handicapped. It's hard to watch. Trust me when I say he doesn't  do this for the money.
He leads a very selfless life and it does make me think about finding meaning in my life outside of my own desires. That's about as close as I get.
I have worked in a soup kitchen and I support a child overseas and make some donations because of theses thoughts... So is that humanistic spirituality?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I couldn't possibly know what you're talking about. I'm just a mere poor taker in a world of Mitt Romney's. I'm far to librral to know anything of the real world and actually have empathy for others.

No, sorry. I know EXACTLY the made up bullshit you're suggesting. You're suggesting you and you alone get "it" hoping one of us simple mother fuckers might glimpse a slice of the real meaning that you get.

Amiright?

[stromboli]

I have mentioned experiences on here that I consider uplifting, as in elevating the senses to a different level. The problem with the word spiritual is that it is most often used in connection with religion, so using it in any other way tends to obscure the meaning.

Spiritual:
of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

The definition of the word in a non religious context is still a bit obscure.

[Bicod]

Doesn't that leave out everything, then? No, the above doesn't exclude a search for meaning-- existential meaning-- searching for meaning in human existence or in one's life. Nor does it exclude attempts at transcendence of the ego, self-centered perception and self-centered behavior. (Practicing forgiveness, performing random acts of kindness, running a soup kitchen, volunteering in third world countries, studying Zen meditation, etc.)

Thinking about life and doing good things? That's your definition of spirituality? That's so deep, man. Soooo deep.

In my experience, there will be people who read this and know what I'm talking about, but most of the individuals who read this will insist that there's nothing to spirituality EXCEPT dogma, nonsense, pseudoscience, and woo woo.

"I mean, most of you don't understand thinking about life and doing good things, but you know, maybe somebody out here is so in touch with their soul that they might just be able to understand things on such a spiritual level. Things like, like doing good things. Or, or maybe even thinking about life."

I'm writing this because I'd like to know how many people here know what I'm talking about, or are open-minded enough to want to know what I'm talking about. Essentially, I'm just doing a head count for kindred spirits. (Yes, there's the "s" word again. As I'm using it here, it's a metaphor.)

How much tie-die do you wear on a weekly basis?

[Kamonohashi]

I know EXACTLY the made up bullshit you're suggesting. You're suggesting you and you alone get "it" hoping one of us simple mother fuckers might glimpse a slice of the real meaning that you get. Amiright?

What I was referring to with regard to people understanding what I'm talking about wasn't an implication that I'm "enlightened" and was wondering whether or not there are any other "enlightened" people here-- but rather whether there was anyone who understood the sort of thing that I'm referring to. Obviously, there are.

Like it or not, the term "spirituality" is the only one commonly understood to address this notion of moral self improvement in the broader context of a search for meaning. When used in this manner, the root "spirit" in the term is a metaphorical mode of description which refers to subjective emotional states best described in terms of "light-heavy" or "free-gravity-bound" as opposed to purely qualitative emotions: "happy," "sad," "angry," etc. (This is that warm-fuzzy feeling that often comes from transcending one's evolutionarily-defined selfishness and egoic psychological instincts. It's the sense of "upliftedness, lightness, and internal soaring that a person might experience watching their child be born, or during moments of intimacy with another human being.)

Other words use this root in the same metaphorically descriptive way: inspirational, dispirited, awe-inspiring, in high spirits. Language is intrinsically metaphorical, although some people will interpret metaphors literally (like the Christian metaphors and symbolism in the story of Genesis). When I asked if there were any "kindred spirits" here, I wasn't inquiring about the existence of ghosts or goblins.

[Kamonohashi]

I think it's a word used by pseudo-intellectuals who want to sound smart without having to do any real learning.

I don't mean any criticism or hostility by what I'm about to say with regard to this response to my question. I'm simply using it as an example.

The reason why I phrased my original post the way I did is that I've brought up this idea of "spirituality" (sorry, but I've searched long and hard and there is no other word that captures what I'm trying to express)-- the reason that I asked if there was anyone who understood what I was talking about is that most atheists deny that "spirituality" can be anything but nonsense and woo woo-- regardless of how rationally and clearly I express my thoughts. This particular response is typical-- a perfect example. I don't mean to criticize it in any way; I'm only using it to demonstrate the difficulty I've had communicating in atheist forums. (I don't go to theist forums because I'm not a theist, and I don't go to new age forums, because they're full of GENUINE woo woo.)

[SGOS]

I don't know what people mean by it, so I avoid making any claims about having it.  To me, it's a meaningless word meant to denote something worthy that may not even exist.

[Solitary]

I'm curious to know what the people participating in this forum think of the topic of spirituality. That term can be used in so many different ways as to render it virtually meaningless unless the person useing it defines what they're talking about clearly. By "spirituality," I don't mean religious dogma or religious practice. I don't mean new age woo woo. I don't mean the pseudoscience- dogma mix of many pre-scientific but non-theistic religions. I'm not talking about "the supernatural," or magical non-physical entities or forces, either. Finally, I'm not even talking about warm, fuzzy feelings-- though that is a dimension of spirituality that I think is worth considering.

Doesn't that leave out everything, then? No, the above doesn't exclude a search for meaning-- existential meaning-- searching for meaning in human existence or in one's life. Nor does it exclude attempts at transcendence of the ego, self-centered perception and self-centered behavior. (Practicing forgiveness, performing random acts of kindness, running a soup kitchen, volunteering in third world countries, studying Zen meditation, etc.)

In my experience, there will be people who read this and know what I'm talking about, but most of the individuals who read this will insist that there's nothing to spirituality EXCEPT dogma, nonsense, pseudoscience, and woo woo.

I'm writing this because I'd like to know how many people here know what I'm talking about, or are open-minded enough to want to know what I'm talking about. Essentially, I'm just doing a head count for kindred spirits. (Yes, there's the "s" word again. As I'm using it here, it's a metaphor.)

I know what you mean, something lacking in most religious people. I think it is having gentle feelings like empathy, kindness, true courage, love, peace of mind, attachment to all living things, creativity instead of strong emotions like hate, revenge, fear, lust to destroy, prejudice, bigotry, ignorance, stupidity, etc. Solitary

[SGOS]

I don't mean to criticize it in any way; I'm only using it to demonstrate the difficulty I've had communicating in atheist forums. (I don't go to theist forums because I'm not a theist, and I don't go to new age forums, because they're full of GENUINE woo woo.)

It might help you to not bring the subject up in atheist forums, at least for a year or so.  Of course, you will find some atheist somewhere that will claim to be a very spiritual person, because there is nothing to say an atheist can't believe in woo, while not believing in gods.

I took nothing you said as hostile.  Rather, you seem in a state of disbelief.  A good place to start understanding atheists is to believe what they say about themselves.  Don't get too confounded by our different views.  They are not complicated views.  This isn't rocket science.

[stromboli]

I have used the word spiritual on here in times past to describe experiences I have had in nature as a long time outdoorsman, because other words don't better describe the feeling. I don't use the word here anymore because to most it has a religious connotation.

It is just a fucking word. If somebody uses the word as an atheist it shouldn't set off a shitstorm of responses about, no, thats religion, blah blah. It is just meant to express an inner feeling, that is all.

One of the people whose writings I admire and who I respect for his views was John Muir. He used the word a lot to describe how nature affected him. It affects me the same way. Like I once said, there is nothing quite like sitting at a camp fire at dawn drinking a cup of freshly brewed coffee and watching the sun rise over a mountain lake, feeling the brush of a breeze with the scents of pine trees and flowers mingled in. Just because people haven't had experiences that elevate them above the ordinary and mundane, doesn't give someone the right to chastise them for how they describe it.

[SGOS]

Several years after I'd accepted my atheism, I was sitting half way up a ridge by myself, looking down a dark blue mountain lake in a Montana wilderness area.  As always, it was gorgeous, but I had one of those feelings that I get from time to time when I'm alone in the wilderness.  I said to myself, actually I said it out loud to myself, "This is so beautiful; There has to be a god." 

I suppose it was some sort of throwback to my days as a Christian, and my ability to logically process information was temporarily short circuited at that moment by overwhelming joy.  In my defense, in less that two seconds, the fallacy of this non sequitur hit me, and I ended up chuckling to myself.

[stromboli]

Several years after I'd accepted my atheism, I was sitting half way up a ridge by myself, looking down a dark blue mountain lake in a Montana wilderness area.  As always, it was gorgeous, but I had one of those feelings that I get from time to time when I'm alone in the wilderness.  I said to myself, actually I said it out loud to myself, "This is so beautiful; There has to be a god." 

I suppose it was some sort of throwback to my days as a Christian, and my ability to logically process information was temporarily short circuited at that moment by overwhelming joy.  In my defense, in less that two seconds, the fallacy of this non sequitur hit me, and I ended up chuckling to myself.

Cool, bro. I'm hoping to be in Montana this summer. Depending on my wife's mobility...  Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. There are experiences outside yourself that are very hard to describe. I think that has something to do why people became religious in the first place, feeling exalted and uplifted without understanding the reasons why.