Is Freefall Proof of Controlled Demolition?

[Sargon The Grape]

[bullshit]

I started off seriously debating your points. You're the one who deemed me to be an idiot, and I've been poking fun at you ever since. You've repeatedly demonstrated that you are in no way interested in having a conversation about your theories (idiotic though they are). You're just here to proselytize.

[stromboli]

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

41 pages. Count em' Maybe if I beat your head with this enough times it'll sink in.

[Hakurei Reimu]

It surprises me that anyone can think, in a chaotic event like an uncontrolled collapse, that it is impossible that portions of the building may fall at free-fall speeds. Even if the north facade fell at free-fall, it would still take 5.9 seconds for it to fall to ground level (173.736 meters) — not 3.5 s or 2 s whatever the hell you think it is. But the penthouse was seen to collapse 7 seconds earlier before the roof even began to fall, which means that the building was already collapsing as a unit when the north facade started to fall, and it took at least 12.9 seconds to do, more than twice as long as a free-fall event. It can be easily be the case that the north facade fell at free-fall speeds, as most of the support for the building had already failed at that point after being weakened by fire, complete with stray multiton fragments of metal and concrete being thrown about. Even if we buy that the north facade spent 3.5 s in free fall, that only accounts for 16 of the 47 stories of the building.

This reduces the claim from the incredible-sounding "WTC 7 fell at free fall speeds to the ground" to the much more plausible sounding "the northern facade of WTC 7 fell for 16 stories at free-fall," and as such it is not 'irrefutable evidence of freefall', or of controlled demolition. Given the utter practical impossibility of hiding the necessary prep-work for such a controlled demolition in the weeks prior to 9/11, and the practical impossibility of such preparations surviving the debris fall and resulting fire for a good seven hours prior to the fall of the building, renders the hypothesis of a controlled collapse of WTC 7 completely dead on arrival.

Let's also not forget that the most respected publications on engineering (NIST & Popular Mechanics in particular), despite conspiracy theorists claim to the contrary, do not claim that free fall is either indicative of controlled demolition nor present in the WTC 7 collapse — such claims only appear in publications dedicated to exposing a conspiracy. If free-fall is so irrefutable and so indicative of controlled demolition, how can it be ignored so easily... unless —just like so-called 'irrefutable proofs' of intelligent design— that such claims are actually false.

I find it far more likely that a bunch of fools are so wrapped up in their conspiracy theory that they take as true many, many false "facts," than all but a small fraction of structural engineers are hiding the "truth" that is trumpetted by a small but vocal minority.

Anyway, I think this discussion has run its course. Unless you are willing to produce a series of articles from peer review literature that give your "WTC 7 was demoed deliberately" some actual academic weight, then there is nothing more to be gained, because I'm tired of explaining why I think your bullshit is bullshit over and over again.

[Johan]

Responses came at me from every angle.  Mostly they point blank rejected my arguments without even reading what I wrote.  

Do not assume that Just because we don't feel the need to acknowledge or address every idiotic point you've tried to pontificate on, that means we haven't read them. We have.

[Jason78]

MoFo is a Heretic!  A Blasphemer!  Quick!  Bann him at the stake, before his disbelief in the Official Conspiracy Theory spreads!

[ Image ]

I beat you to it :D

[Brian37]

I am starting this new topic as a fork from the discussion of Israel and its  history of false flag attacks.  In that discussion, I stated that World Trade Center Building No. 7 was brought down in a controlled demolition.  Obviously, controlled demolition shoots holes in the official conspiracy theory that "al qaeda dunnit (with no insider help)" and raises the question of who on the inside helped Osama bin Laden and his merry band of 19 jihadists.  Please keep in mind that I don't know who brought WTC 7 down.  I am not flat out accusing the israel and/or the jews, (I only say they had the motive, the technical expertise, and a long history of covert false flag attacks).  But one thing I do know for a fact: "normal office fires" could not have possibly brought WTC 7 down at freefall acceleration.

THE SMOKING GUN


Anyone who has studied high school physics would know that the definition of freefall is an object being pulled to the ground by gravity with nothing to resist its fall.  CORRECTION: Anyone who has learned high school physics (big difference between studied and learned).  So if there was structural resistance at 5:20:00 PM but at 5:20:01 PM there was zero resistance, how is that possible?  Other than controlled demolition, it isn't.

As further proof of this, I offer that at a technical briefing on August 26, 2008, NIST director Dr. S. Shyam Sunder even said so.  (At the time of the briefing, NIST's official position was that freefall did not occur.)  However, even NIST subsequently had to admit freefall when it stared them in the face, and they admit it in their final report.  Note that the report did not even attempt to explain this discrepancy with the laws of nature because they knew full well that controlled demolition is in fact the only plausible explanation.

Anyone have any theories about how the laws of physics were suspended for a few seconds on September 11, 2001?  (If your theory is that Allah did it, first you will have to prove Allah exists!  chuckle #-o  chuckle #-o )


LINKS:
Technical briefing where Dr. Sunder denies possibility of freefall
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZnvn7O2NY&feature=related
(00:02:40)

NIST Final Report, confirming that freefall did occur
//http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861610
(see Page 44, Section 3.6 TIMING OF COLLAPSE INITIATION AND PROGRESSION)

We have a hard enough time dealing with morons claiming invisible sky parents. THERE WAS NO INSIDE HELP! If you buy into that crap, pick a church and suck a god's dick. I don't give one shit if you claim to be an atheist, 9/11 was NOT an inside job. The moon landing was not faked, Oswald acted alone. There are no little green men. Bigfoot is not real. Vampires are not real.

Please take your conspiracy crap and peddle it elsewhere.

[AtheistMoFo]

Look your ENTIRE theory hinges on controlled demolition of Tower 7, which I have denied many times.  I was there at the WTC along with 26 other EOD's while terrorists were rigging WTC 7 for demolition right under our very noses.  But MoFo doesn't know how they did it -- couldn't possibly know because not even we know, and we are experts.  Therefore, I will just claim that since MoFo can't give proof showing how they did it, it never happened.  Of course neither can I prove how the troofers planted all that thermitic residue in all of the dust samples, but that's beside the point.  As long as my colleagues and I have deniability, nobody can blame us for professional negligence resulting in 3000 deaths and destruction of billions of dollars worth of buildings.

Until ONE truther can show evidence of any of their wackadoo claims they are just that. Wackadoo

Nobody can show/prove how the Egyptian pyramids were built, either, so are you going to deny they exist?  Anyway, it wouldn't be the first time explosive materials were brought into WTC.  Remember 1993?  Best way to find out how they smuggled thermite into WTC 7 and attached it to the support beams without you noticing would be to demand a REAL investigation, no?  I've heard several theories on how it was done, but until there is a full investigation, it is only speculation.  Still, the theory that sounds most plausible (in my opinion) is that they used basically the same technique as the 19 guys who smuggled boxcutters past the security screeners at the airports.  Just that the boxcutter smugglers used a scaled down version of the technique, but the same basic principle.

By the way, don't blame yourself and team mates entirely for the disaster.  If the airport security guards had not failed in their duty as well, the two planes would not have crashed into the twin towers.  Without the diversion caused by the twin towers disaster, it would not have been possible to bring down WTC 7 and get away with it.

Now that we are on the matter of airport screening, I have not heard any airport security guards deny the fact that terrorists smuggled boxcutters through security.  Have you?  Maybe it never happened either!

[Plu]

I wonder how much thermite you'd need to bring down a building.

[Sargon The Grape]

MoFo is a Heretic!  A Blasphemer!  Quick!  Bann him at the stake, before his disbelief in the Official Conspiracy Theory spreads!

[ Image ]

I beat you to it :D

Doesn't matter, had happy Asian face. :-D

[AtheistMoFo]

We have a hard enough time dealing with morons claiming invisible sky parents. THERE WAS NO INSIDE HELP! If you buy into that crap, pick a church and suck a god's dick. I don't give one shit if you claim to be an atheist, 9/11 was NOT an inside job. The moon landing was not faked, Oswald acted alone. There are no little green men. Bigfoot is not real. Vampires are not real.

Please take your conspiracy crap and peddle it elsewhere.

Next you'll be telling us that Pearl Harbor was an UNprovoked SUPRISE attack, even though documents released under FOIA prove without a doubt Roosevelt provoked it, and even knew the exact day and hour it would come.  Dream on, dude.  All the evil ones are muslims.  No evil has ever been plotted on American soil.  Amarika!  Fuck yeah!

[Sargon The Grape]

Next you'll be telling us that Pearl Harbor was an UNprovoked SUPRISE attack, even though documents released under FOIA prove without a doubt Roosevelt provoked it, and even knew the exact day and hour it would come.  Dream on, dude.  All the evil ones are muslims.  No evil has ever been plotted on American soil.  Amarika!  Fuck yeah!

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you're also a Pearl Harbor Truther. Are you also a Titanic Truther, by any chance?

[youtube:11g06lta]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI[/youtube:11g06lta]

[Brian37]

We have a hard enough time dealing with morons claiming invisible sky parents. THERE WAS NO INSIDE HELP! If you buy into that crap, pick a church and suck a god's dick. I don't give one shit if you claim to be an atheist, 9/11 was NOT an inside job. The moon landing was not faked, Oswald acted alone. There are no little green men. Bigfoot is not real. Vampires are not real.

Please take your conspiracy crap and peddle it elsewhere.

Next you'll be telling us that Pearl Harbor was an UNprovoked SUPRISE attack, even though documents released under FOIA prove without a doubt Roosevelt provoked it, and even knew the exact day and hour it would come.  Dream on, dude.  All the evil ones are muslims.  No evil has ever been plotted on American soil.  Amarika!  Fuck yeah!

Um considering there is no party test or religious test to hold any public office, including Secret Service, FBI, ATF, Military or otherwise and considering the 10,s of thousands of investigators of diverse politics involved with the investigation after the fact, only someone BAT FUCKING SHIT INSANE would claim everyone is in on a cover up.

Once again, take your conspiracy bullshit and shove it up your ass. Otherwise you might as well claim Obama was responsible for sinking the Titanic.

Your tin foil logic does not impress me.

[Moralnihilist]

Look your ENTIRE theory hinges on controlled demolition of Tower 7, which has been disproven beyond a shadow of doubt except for several retards who refuse to believe otherwise. MoFo doesn't know how they did it -- couldn't possibly know because he has no fucking brain. He also, according to his mommy, has a minuscule penis. She told me this whilst I was plowing her in the ass. Yea she just can't get enough of my cock. Its rather sad really that neither him nor his father(a used turkey baster from what she claimed) can get her off like I can. She really likes it when I pound her in the ass and then as she is orgasming to punch her in the back of the head as hard as I can, weird bitch.

Until ONE truther can show evidence of any of their wackadoo claims they are just that. Wackadoo

Nobody can show/prove how the Egyptian pyramids were built, either, so are you going to deny they exist?  Anyway, it wouldn't be the first time explosive materials were brought into WTC.  Remember 1993?  Best way to find out how they smuggled thermite into WTC 7 and attached it to the support beams without you noticing would be to demand a REAL investigation, no?  I've heard several theories on how it was done, but until there is a full investigation, it is only speculation.  Still, the theory that sounds most plausible (in my opinion) is that they used basically the same technique as the 19 guys who smuggled boxcutters past the security screeners at the airports.  Just that the boxcutter smugglers used a scaled down version of the technique, but the same basic principle.

By the way, don't blame yourself and team mates entirely for the disaster.  If the airport security guards had not failed in their duty as well, the two planes would not have crashed into the twin towers.  Without the diversion caused by the twin towers disaster, it would not have been possible to bring down WTC 7 and get away with it.

Now that we are on the matter of airport screening, I have not heard any airport security guards deny the fact that terrorists smuggled boxcutters through security.  Have you?  Maybe it never happened either!

You do realize that the stationing of EOD's in that building was in direct relation to the 1993 bombing don't you. You also realize that in order for the "thermite theory" you have just unloaded(a theory that has been discounted for this very reason btw) would requite TONS of thermite, something on the order of 5-10 TONS of thermite. An amount that big being mixed would leave records, an amount that big would have lit that building up like a christmas tree, an amount that big could have been seen by Ray fucking Charles. You do realize, THAT YOU HAVE YET AGIAN COMPARED ONE OF THE MOST HIGHLY TRAINED GROUP OF EOD'S ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO A GROUP OF OVERPAID RENT-A-COPS. A simpler analogy for you to understand would be like you trying to compare your understanding of quantum theoretical physics to that of Stephen Hawking.

Do you not understand the difference between several ounces of aluminum vs several TONS of thermite(something that, by the way, the bomb detection equipment would have picked up in an instant). Do you also not get the point that even IF someone managed to get the required amount of thermite into a building FULL of USSS(secret service) and EOD's they would STILL have to rig the building for demolition WITHOUT 27 people(that get paid to know what it looks like) OR their equipment noticing. A building that was manned 24/7 by those people.

As to not blaming myself for ALL of the tragedy that happened that day, GO FUCK YOURSELF DIPSHIT! I had fuck all to do with it aside from this being there that day.

And by the way moron, since you have NO fucking evidence what so ever of this bullshit you claim, it can be disregarded with the same level of proof.

As to the pyramids, I can see those, Ive been there. They are quite amazing. The difference between those is that we admit that we don't know the entire story on how they were made. You claim this grand conspiracy and automatically jump to a conclusion that has been discounted because its impossible. Do I know why the building fell the way it did? Nope. But I can firmly and without a doubt in my mind say that it wasn't explosives that brought it down. Do you know why the building fell the way it did? Again no. And until you have an ounce of proof, you are spewing nothing but bullshit.

[Brian37]

This idiot might as well be claiming God did it,

[Thumpalumpacus]

After the endless barrage of posts saying little more than moron, fucktard, Godzilla, idiot, Death Star, tinfoil, mamma's panties, I started having doubts about the intelligence level of the group as I was addressing as a whole.

Hey, nothing like broad-brushing folks who have been decent to you throughout.  Thanks for nuthin'.