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NRA's enemies list.

Started by Brian37, February 14, 2013, 10:39:53 AM

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Anonymous

Quote from: "stromboli"Right. but the obvious argument is that the 2nd amendment was written when firearms were loaded by the muzzle and were good for two (2) shots a minute, assuming you knew what you are doing. And by the way, we have militias, and we used to have more of them. remember the Brady Bill? Everything that is happening now happened previously. But single ownership by an individual does not constitute a militia. And to answer a previous point I reiterate- you can hunt an animal with an assault rifle. But that is not its designed use, period.
You can also cut your lawn with a farm-size threshing machine, but that is not its designed purpose.
 You can protect your home with a shotgun and a variety of rifles. Firearms that can put out multiple rounds per second or minute raises the stigma of collateral damage. And an assault rifle's designed purpose is the killing of humans, not hunting.

And the easy rebuttle is that when they wrote the first amendment they had movable type machines in mind, however we are smart enough to know that video news programs are also the press and we extend that right to them.  I will say you are correct in saying that one person is not a militia, he is a part of the militia, and when you gather is family and neighbors BANG militia.  YOu are incorrect on the what you insist on calling an assault rifles purpose.  It was designed to be used for hunting/defense purposes in case the military did not pick it up.  Unfortunately for the citizens they did and now all of a sudden it is bad.

QuoteIf you want to have an assault rifle, form a militia and conform to the rules therein. The bigger point is that we
 need to address the problem with a complete approach. Empower the ATF to do sufficient background checks of dealers and have a consistent, across the board method of checking not only the criminal histories of potential owners and their mental health history. I don't give machetes to my grand kids to play with, we shouldn't allow  firearms in the hands of dangerous people.

You are obviously confused as to what a militia is.  A militia is nothing more than a body that can stand and fight without formal training.  It is the hunters and other people that know how to use a gun but do not have the knowledge that the fighting forces have (unless they previously served).  I agree that we need to be able to background checks and keep guns out of the hands of bad people, but if you take a look at all the mass shootings that they are trying to limit (which failed during the las ban by the way) you will notice that people obtained them illegaly.  Even by lying on a form in order to get a gun, it is illegal.  I think we need to expand to having to get a psych eval before hand, where that shrink will be able to delve into your history and make sure you aren't a nutjob just trying to shoot up a mall, theater, school, or any other public place.

[/quote]Personally, I don't care if qualified people own assault rifles. Have fun. But we seriously need a way to keep them out of the hands of dangerous people.[/quote]

Couldn't agree with you more.

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "SGOS"Nor am I impressed by slippery slope arguments advanced by the NRA.
Good for you.  The fact remains, it's not a slippery slope fallacy, but the directed goal vocalized by the forerunners of the anti-gun movement.  It's also a slope that we've SEEN in action in Britain.
In the case of Britain, I think it's more a case of "what the fuck do we need guns for anyway?" and they just let it go, which is a perfectly respectful position. Britain never had a gun culture like ours.

Quote from: "buttfinger"They're so far down that slope that you have to have DOCUMENTATION of being a butcher or chef in order to transport kitchen knives, and they're currently (or perhaps done, but recently did) debating banning kitchen knives that are too pointy.
This sounds suspiciously extraordinary. Prove this assertion, now.
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buttfinger

Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Prove this assertion, now.
Demanding little fucker, aintcha.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/sho ... -Knife-Law

Brian37

QuotePersonally, I don't care if qualified people own assault rifles. Have fun. But we seriously need a way to keep them out of the hands of dangerous people.

QuoteCouldn't agree with you more.

I do care if people own assault riffles. First off, even when someone is trained like a cop, they can and do make mistakes. 9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.

And the cop out excuse used by assault riffle fans is that it is "semi automatic". The military automatics, are hardly if ever used by the soldiers on auto, there is a switch on military autos that allows them to be semi an that is what soldiers mostly use. So it is still a military style weapon even if it does not have the switch to auto capability. And tell me why you would need an assault riffle to hunt or even target shoot? You want that but you dont need it. There is a difference between want and need.

Training alone and background checks alone will not prevent even trained people from making mistakes. I just saw an interview on TV on MSNBC yesterday where a teenage police cadet in the POLICE locker room was accidentally shot in the neck by a cop who was training him, and he ended up paralyzed.

AND a TRAINED soldier just a week ago was ARMED and shot and murdered WHILE armed at a SHOOTING RANGE. So once again being trained and being armed wont prevent someone who wants to kill you from getting the jump on you before you can draw your weapon.

And military and cop trainers in shooting simulators say that MOST people make mistakes even when they are well trained.

You DO NOT need a automatic or semi automatic assault riffle anymore than you need a grenade launcher or a tank.

Not to mention you are vastly more likely to injure or kill yourself or someone you know than protect yourself from a stranger. Not to mention the amount of gun death on average 32 per DAY 365 days a year, you do the math.

This second amendment crap and fear mongering is bullshit. It is one thing to own a gun. But this is NOT about gun ownership. This is about the gun manufacturing industry wanting to keep it's market base and expand it's market base. The more crime and fear the more people want guns, the more people want guns, the more the gun makers make. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RIGHTS THIS IS ABOUT CORPORATE GREED.

Gabbi giffords owns a gun but not an assault riffle. And I don't think she feels the need to own twenty or own large clips. You remember her, she was shot in AZ, a little girl along with 6 others died. Newtown last month 26. Oh and Columbine did have trained security on sight and still 13 people still died.

No, a millitia is not simply a body that can fight, I don't know where the hell you got that from, too many Mel Gibson movies. Not to mention the weapons they had back then were all muskets. I don't think you could get the founders to say sure, you the individual citizen are also entitled to a tank or jet.

If arms means anything then, even back then I could simply take off with one of their ships which has cannons on it, and even use it against Washington and Jefferson because "I have the right to bear arms". The part you keep missing about the second amendment is the word "regulated". Just like free speech does not mean you can sell porn to kids or yell fire in a theater.

No this is about money, this is not about rights.. This is about ginning up fear so gun makers can make money. We have too many guns on the street, that does not mean take away all guns. But we do need to reduce gun death, reduce the amount of guns, and ban assault riffles and huge clips. Background checks and bans for those who have mentally handicap or mentally ill living in the same dwelling as the guns are kept. The Newtown shooter had an assault riffle. The Va Tech shooter had handguns. So it isn't just about assault riffles.

AND corporate America needs to directly invest in all run down neighborhoods urban, suburban or sticks, better schools, better jobs, better pay. Crime goes down when economic stability rises. But gun makers like any business don't want to reduce sales they want to increase them.
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PopeyesPappy

Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"
Quote from: "buttfinger"They're so far down that slope that you have to have DOCUMENTATION of being a butcher or chef in order to transport kitchen knives, and they're currently (or perhaps done, but recently did) debating banning kitchen knives that are too pointy.
This sounds suspiciously extraordinary. Prove this assertion, now.

Here you go.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


buttfinger

Quote from: "Brian37"9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.
Police issue handguns fire a larger round that has a greater impact velocity.  This argument is self-defeating in that an "assault rifle" would have done less damage.

QuoteAnd tell me why you would need an assault riffle to hunt or even target shoot? You want that but you dont need it. There is a difference between want and need.
That's not your decision to make if I'm the one using it to feed my family.

QuoteAND a TRAINED soldier just a week ago was ARMED and shot and murdered WHILE armed at a SHOOTING RANGE. So once again being trained and being armed wont prevent someone who wants to kill you from getting the jump on you before you can draw your weapon.
1: He was at a park that contained a range, not at the range itself.
2: Rifles don't need to be drawn, you can't holster a rifle.  This alone shows that you know fuck all about the topic at hand.

QuoteThis second amendment crap and fear mongering is bullshit.
Call it what you will, the amendment stands.  if you don't like it, lobby to amend the constitution to repal amendment 2.  Until then, suck my pistol.

QuoteGabbi giffords owns a gun but not an assault riffle. And I don't think she feels the need to own twenty or own large clips.
Good for her.  Others who have the right to carry different weapons than her make different choices than she does.  So what?

QuoteOh and Columbine did have trained security on sight and still 13 people still died.
And yet there are NUMEROUS incidents of security guards stopping shootings.  the media, however, doesn't like to tell you these things.

QuoteNo, a millitia is not simply a body that can fight, I don't know where the hell you got that from, too many Mel Gibson movies.
Or...  The FACT that this country was liberated by farmers and blacksmiths with guns.  The fact is, a trained army is an army, a militia is an untrained army, ergo an armed populace willing to fight for home and country IS a militia and HAS fended off the army of a tyrannical dictator right here in the US.  If your claim were the case, we'd not even exist as a country.

QuoteNot to mention the weapons they had back then were all muskets. I don't think you could get the founders to say sure, you the individual citizen are also entitled to a tank or jet.
Tanks and jets are vehicles, not firearms.  Still, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Washington wouldn't have been ECSTATIC if Sam Adams owned a B.A.R.


Your argument would hold more weight if Chicago were a safe place to walk around, knowing you won't be shot by all the firearms that nobody has because they're illegal.  As it turns out, people who are willing to murder don't GAF about gun laws.

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Prove this assertion, now.
Demanding little fucker, aintcha.
Why are you surprised that I demand proof of your outrageous claim?

Quote from: "buttfinger"http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?975-Summary-of-British-Knife-Law
I do not see how this law is supposed to forbid the transport of knives in any way, or forbid their normal use as kitchen knives. Last time I checked, your home is not a public place.

Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"Here you go.
Did you even read the tail end of the article you cited?

QuoteHome Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.

"The law already prohibits the possession of offensive weapons in a public place, and the possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three inches.

"Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.

"An individual has to demonstrate that he had good reason to possess a knife, for example for fishing, other sporting purposes or as part of his profession (e.g. a chef) in a public place.

"The manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives."

Doesn't even sound like a debate for actual legislation, only a bunch of doctors making noise, and nowhere do I see "transport of a knife from the store where you just bought it to your place of residence" is not a good reason for you to have a knife.

Seriously, you're going to have to do better than this. Perhaps an actual case where some loser has been charged with possessing a kitchen knife, when he's just driving back from the knife store.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
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Jmpty

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Brian37"9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.
Police issue handguns fire a larger round that has a greater impact velocity.  This argument is self-defeating in that an "assault rifle" would have done less damage.

QuoteAnd tell me why you would need an assault riffle to hunt or even target shoot? You want that but you dont need it. There is a difference between want and need.
That's not your decision to make if I'm the one using it to feed my family.

QuoteAND a TRAINED soldier just a week ago was ARMED and shot and murdered WHILE armed at a SHOOTING RANGE. So once again being trained and being armed wont prevent someone who wants to kill you from getting the jump on you before you can draw your weapon.
1: He was at a park that contained a range, not at the range itself.
2: Rifles don't need to be drawn, you can't holster a rifle.  This alone shows that you know fuck all about the topic at hand.

QuoteThis second amendment crap and fear mongering is bullshit.
Call it what you will, the amendment stands.  if you don't like it, lobby to amend the constitution to repal amendment 2.  Until then, suck my pistol.

QuoteGabbi giffords owns a gun but not an assault riffle. And I don't think she feels the need to own twenty or own large clips.
Good for her.  Others who have the right to carry different weapons than her make different choices than she does.  So what?

QuoteOh and Columbine did have trained security on sight and still 13 people still died.
And yet there are NUMEROUS incidents of security guards stopping shootings.  the media, however, doesn't like to tell you these things.

QuoteNo, a millitia is not simply a body that can fight, I don't know where the hell you got that from, too many Mel Gibson movies.
Or...  The FACT that this country was liberated by farmers and blacksmiths with guns.  The fact is, a trained army is an army, a militia is an untrained army, ergo an armed populace willing to fight for home and country IS a militia and HAS fended off the army of a tyrannical dictator right here in the US.  If your claim were the case, we'd not even exist as a country.

QuoteNot to mention the weapons they had back then were all muskets. I don't think you could get the founders to say sure, you the individual citizen are also entitled to a tank or jet.
Tanks and jets are vehicles, not firearms.  Still, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Washington wouldn't have been ECSTATIC if Sam Adams owned a B.A.R.


Your argument would hold more weight if Chicago were a safe place to walk around, knowing you won't be shot by all the firearms that nobody has because they're illegal.  As it turns out, people who are willing to murder don't GAF about gun laws.

You really don't know shit about anything, do you? You just like to run your mouth. So I have observed. You just seem to spew right wing talking points, or just make shit up as you go. Are you experienced with firearms? It doesn't seem as if you are.
???  ??

PopeyesPappy

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Brian37"9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.
Police issue handguns fire a larger round that has a greater impact velocity.  This argument is self-defeating in that an "assault rifle" would have done less damage.

I'm going to have to argue that one. A Winchester Ranger T-Series 127 grain +P+ 9mm (probably the hottest factory loaded 9mm) runs about 1250 fps and 441 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle of 5" barrel. A 62 grain 5.56 NATO round leaves a 20" barrel at 3100 fps with 1300 plus foot pounds of energy. The little 62 grain 5.56 is still carrying about 450 foot pounds of energy at 300 yards. That's more than the 9mm has point blank.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Anonymous

Quote from: "Brian37"
QuotePersonally, I don't care if qualified people own assault rifles. Have fun. But we seriously need a way to keep them out of the hands of dangerous people.

QuoteCouldn't agree with you more.

I do care if people own assault riffles. First off, even when someone is trained like a cop, they can and do make mistakes. 9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.

And the cop out excuse used by assault riffle fans is that it is "semi automatic". The military automatics, are hardly if ever used by the soldiers on auto, there is a switch on military autos that allows them to be semi an that is what soldiers mostly use. So it is still a military style weapon even if it does not have the switch to auto capability. And tell me why you would need an assault riffle to hunt or even target shoot? You want that but you dont need it. There is a difference between want and need.

Training alone and background checks alone will not prevent even trained people from making mistakes. I just saw an interview on TV on MSNBC yesterday where a teenage police cadet in the POLICE locker room was accidentally shot in the neck by a cop who was training him, and he ended up paralyzed.

AND a TRAINED soldier just a week ago was ARMED and shot and murdered WHILE armed at a SHOOTING RANGE. So once again being trained and being armed wont prevent someone who wants to kill you from getting the jump on you before you can draw your weapon.

And military and cop trainers in shooting simulators say that MOST people make mistakes even when they are well trained.

You DO NOT need a automatic or semi automatic assault riffle anymore than you need a grenade launcher or a tank.

Not to mention you are vastly more likely to injure or kill yourself or someone you know than protect yourself from a stranger. Not to mention the amount of gun death on average 32 per DAY 365 days a year, you do the math.

This second amendment crap and fear mongering is bullshit. It is one thing to own a gun. But this is NOT about gun ownership. This is about the gun manufacturing industry wanting to keep it's market base and expand it's market base. The more crime and fear the more people want guns, the more people want guns, the more the gun makers make. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RIGHTS THIS IS ABOUT CORPORATE GREED.

Gabbi giffords owns a gun but not an assault riffle. And I don't think she feels the need to own twenty or own large clips. You remember her, she was shot in AZ, a little girl along with 6 others died. Newtown last month 26. Oh and Columbine did have trained security on sight and still 13 people still died.

No, a millitia is not simply a body that can fight, I don't know where the hell you got that from, too many Mel Gibson movies. Not to mention the weapons they had back then were all muskets. I don't think you could get the founders to say sure, you the individual citizen are also entitled to a tank or jet.

If arms means anything then, even back then I could simply take off with one of their ships which has cannons on it, and even use it against Washington and Jefferson because "I have the right to bear arms". The part you keep missing about the second amendment is the word "regulated". Just like free speech does not mean you can sell porn to kids or yell fire in a theater.

No this is about money, this is not about rights.. This is about ginning up fear so gun makers can make money. We have too many guns on the street, that does not mean take away all guns. But we do need to reduce gun death, reduce the amount of guns, and ban assault riffles and huge clips. Background checks and bans for those who have mentally handicap or mentally ill living in the same dwelling as the guns are kept. The Newtown shooter had an assault riffle. The Va Tech shooter had handguns. So it isn't just about assault riffles.

AND corporate America needs to directly invest in all run down neighborhoods urban, suburban or sticks, better schools, better jobs, better pay. Crime goes down when economic stability rises. But gun makers like any business don't want to reduce sales they want to increase them.

Blah Blah Blah, liberal bullshit that shows you don't understand a damn thing about guns. How about you learn some shit about them and then come talk to me sweet-cheeks.

Anonymous

Quote from: "Jmpty"
Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Brian37"9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.
Police issue handguns fire a larger round that has a greater impact velocity.  This argument is self-defeating in that an "assault rifle" would have done less damage.

QuoteAnd tell me why you would need an assault riffle to hunt or even target shoot? You want that but you dont need it. There is a difference between want and need.
That's not your decision to make if I'm the one using it to feed my family.

QuoteAND a TRAINED soldier just a week ago was ARMED and shot and murdered WHILE armed at a SHOOTING RANGE. So once again being trained and being armed wont prevent someone who wants to kill you from getting the jump on you before you can draw your weapon.
1: He was at a park that contained a range, not at the range itself.
2: Rifles don't need to be drawn, you can't holster a rifle.  This alone shows that you know fuck all about the topic at hand.

QuoteThis second amendment crap and fear mongering is bullshit.
Call it what you will, the amendment stands.  if you don't like it, lobby to amend the constitution to repal amendment 2.  Until then, suck my pistol.

QuoteGabbi giffords owns a gun but not an assault riffle. And I don't think she feels the need to own twenty or own large clips.
Good for her.  Others who have the right to carry different weapons than her make different choices than she does.  So what?

QuoteOh and Columbine did have trained security on sight and still 13 people still died.
And yet there are NUMEROUS incidents of security guards stopping shootings.  the media, however, doesn't like to tell you these things.

QuoteNo, a millitia is not simply a body that can fight, I don't know where the hell you got that from, too many Mel Gibson movies.
Or...  The FACT that this country was liberated by farmers and blacksmiths with guns.  The fact is, a trained army is an army, a militia is an untrained army, ergo an armed populace willing to fight for home and country IS a militia and HAS fended off the army of a tyrannical dictator right here in the US.  If your claim were the case, we'd not even exist as a country.

QuoteNot to mention the weapons they had back then were all muskets. I don't think you could get the founders to say sure, you the individual citizen are also entitled to a tank or jet.
Tanks and jets are vehicles, not firearms.  Still, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Washington wouldn't have been ECSTATIC if Sam Adams owned a B.A.R.


Your argument would hold more weight if Chicago were a safe place to walk around, knowing you won't be shot by all the firearms that nobody has because they're illegal.  As it turns out, people who are willing to murder don't GAF about gun laws.

You really don't know shit about anything, do you? You just like to run your mouth. So I have observed. You just seem to spew right wing talking points, or just make shit up as you go. Are you experienced with firearms? It doesn't seem as if you are.

Gauranteed he knows more than you fuckin retards.

Anonymous

Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"
Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Brian37"9 trained cops in NY shot and injured several bystanders just a while ago. And that was with handguns.
Police issue handguns fire a larger round that has a greater impact velocity.  This argument is self-defeating in that an "assault rifle" would have done less damage.

I'm going to have to argue that one. A Winchester Ranger T-Series 127 grain +P+ 9mm (probably the hottest factory loaded 9mm) runs about 1250 fps and 441 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle of 5" barrel. A 62 grain 5.56 NATO round leaves a 20" barrel at 3100 fps with 1300 plus foot pounds of energy. The little 62 grain 5.56 is still carrying about 450 foot pounds of energy at 300 yards. That's more than the 9mm has point blank.

There is more to it than just force.  The Winchester 127 grain rounds are designed for better expansion than the 5.56 NATO full metal jacket.  In fact the military just changed the 5.56mm to increase stopping power as they are highly ineffective in close quarter situations let alone long distance.  You can't win a war if you hit your target and they keep coming at you.  On average it takes two in the chest in a tiny room in an Afghan village to put someone down.  How many do you think it'll take at 300 meters?

Jmpty

I have fired thousands of rounds with an M16. You don't know shit. Are you a troll or just really that ignorant?
???  ??

buttfinger

Quote from: "Jmpty"I have fired thousands of rounds with an M16. You don't know shit. Are you a troll or just really that ignorant?
:lol:
He's CURRENTLY deployed doing the very thing you claim to be in the know about.

buttfinger

I love it how lefties call me a right-wing dick, but fanatical right-wingers call me a commie.  Nothing says "my own opinion" like the established groups thinking I belong to a different one.