Is this a real "miracle"?

[Lolilla]

Hello, everybody.
I am very interested in your thougts about this kind of "miracle" or at least that is what they claim for it to be.<Link Removed> Please before you start shouting I am a troll: I am NOT! I just wanted to know your opinions about this. I am familiar with these "miracles" and I know that most of them are either false, rubbish oder made up. But this one confuses me a bit because I really wonder why the author of the quran said that the the "forelock" of the man is lying and sinful - that just doesn't make sense! I would hate that to be "really some sort of mysterious """"miracle""" and I wouldn't understand it why this god tells stuff like this but says at the same time that the sun orbits the earth. Besides I would just hate "Islam" to be true because I think it is absolutely inhuman and horrible! So what do you think about this story? Can you help me?
Thanks for your thoughts!

[Plu]

Whatever link you posted has been removed, so we can't really see what this is about. Also, welcome back.

[stromboli]

Says link removed. You'll need to give us the link to make a determination.

 Any reference from a holy book is questionable because lacking source material and the possibility of editing or changes, it is never possible to determine authenticity or originality.

[Solitary]

:-D Welcome back Lolilla! Link is missing. There is no such things as miracles no matter what Marylyn Savant says, even if she has the highest IQ. I have a book called: The Book Of Miracles. It makes as much sense as the Koran (Qu'ran), or any other religious text or dogma. There are laws of nature that can't be broken, not even by an imaginary god or God, or even a real one.  :roll:  Solitary

[Lolilla]

Thanks for the nice welcome back! ;) It was this link here: http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/213/
I hope it is working now.

[stromboli]

"front of the head" equaling cerebellum is a big stretch. As to why the writer chose that particular reference, no idea. But to go from front of the head to the forepart of the brain is purely an assumption.

[LikelyToBreak]

It seems obvious to me.  Our emotions are shown on our face.  If someone is lying, their forehead muscles will usually tense up.  If you therefore see someone lying, you may determine it by their forehead.  Maybe they didn't have book on body language back in the time of the prophet, but they still understood body language.  

Sorry, no miracle.  Just one con man being able to ferret out another one.

[Lolilla]

"front of the head" equaling cerebellum is a big stretch. As to why the writer chose that particular reference, no idea. But to go from front of the head to the forepart of the brain is purely an assumption.

You're right of course. I just wonder why the author who ever that might have been din't just write that the person with this "forelock" is lying. You know what I mean? Why does he say that the forelock itself is "lying and sinful"? A hair cannot sin as far as I know :D.
The only thing I can think about is that it is just some kind of stylistic exaggeration, it is meant to be lyric anyway so maybe he just got a bit outraged about this guy. But funny coincidence...

[Solitary]

Thanks for the nice welcome back! ;) It was this link here: http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/213/
I hope it is working now.

Thanks for the info! If one wants to look for evidence for a belief it will be found after the fact in many cases and proves nothing. Look at all the facts behind president Kennedy that seem impossible. How many times is the evidence wrong and forgotten?  It's the same logical fallacy that if you win gambling you brag about it and don't tell anyone how much you have lost to do it. Solitary

[Lolilla]

Ok, I think you are right. And besides, a "forelock" or "front of the head" just cannot be lying or sinful, can it? It sounds so silly in some way... :-D

So do you think this is the same thing with this? http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_61.html
I really hope I am not annoying you or anything, sorry. But I cannot really imagine what the "shrinking of the womb"-part is supposed to mean when he actually talks about pregnancy what I suppose rather than the "miraculous mention of the periodic circle". What do you think?

[LikelyToBreak]

Okay, I'm a guy, but don't they talk about the feeling of bloating on the Midal commercials.  I don't see how it would be a miracle that some man in 600 b.c.e. let alone a man in 600 c.e. would know that women have periods.

Frankly, I find the Nostradamus prophesies more convincing than the Koran's.

[Solitary]

If those are miracles, how about this:

 Lincoln's name has 7 letters
 - Kennedy's name has 7 letters

 - In Lincoln's & Kennedy's names the vowels & consonants fall in exactly the same place;***
   in the order c, v, c, c, v, c, c

 - Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846
 - Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946

 - Lincoln was elected president in 1860
 - Kennedy was elected president in 1960

 - Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln
 - Lincoln had an aide named Kennedy

 - War was thrust upon Lincoln almost immediately after inauguration
 - War was thrust upon Kennedy almost immediately after inauguration

 - Lincoln ordered the Treasury to print its own money
 - Kennedy ordered the Treasury to print its own money

 - International bankers may have arranged the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy

 - Lincoln gave negroes freedom and legalized equality
 - Kennedy enforced equality for negroes

 - Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address on November 19, 1863
 - Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963

 - Lincoln was loved by the common people and hated by the establishment
 - Kennedy was loved by the common people and hated by the establishment

 - Lincoln was succeeded, after assassination, by vice-president Johnson
 - Kennedy was succeeded, after assassination, by vice-president Johnson

 - Andrew Johnson was born in 1808
 - Lyndon Johnson was born in 1908

 - Andrew Johnson's name has 13 letters
 - Lyndon Johnson's name has 13 letters

 - Andrew Johnson had a pug nose and slicked-back hair
 - Lyndon Johnson had a pug nose and slicked-back hair

 - Lincoln was sitting beside his wife when he was shot
   - Kennedy was sitting beside his wife when he was shot

 - Rathbone, who was with Lincoln when he was shot, was injured (by being stabbed)
 - Connally, who was with Kennedy when he was shot, was injured (by being shot)
 - Rathbone's name has 8 letters
 - Connally's name has 8 letters

 - Lincoln's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot
 - Kennedy's wife held his head in her lap after he was shot

 - Lincoln was shot on a Friday
 - Kennedy was shot on a Friday

 - Lincoln was shot in a theatre named  Ford
 - Kennedy was shot in a car made by  Ford

 - Kennedy was shot in a car named Lincoln

 - Lincoln's bodyguard was away from his post at the door of the President's box at the theatre
 - Kennedy's bodyguards were away from their posts on the running-boards of the President's car

 - Lincoln was shot in a theatre and his assassin ran to a warehouse
 - JFK was shot from a warehouse and his alleged assassin ran to a theatre

 - Lincoln's assassin had a three-worded name, John Wilkes Booth
 - Kennedy's alleged assassin had a three-worded name, Lee Harvey Oswald

 - John Wilkes Booth has 15 letters
 - Lee Harvey Oswald has 15 letters

 - John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839 (s/b 1838)
 - Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939

 - Lincoln didn't die immediately after being shot
 - Kennedy didn't die immediately after being shot

 - Lincoln and Kennedy died in places beginning with the initials P and H
 - Lincoln died in Petersen's house
 - Kennedy died in Parkland Hospital

 - Booth was shot and killed* in police custody before going to trial
 - Oswald was shot and killed in police custody before going to trial

 - Kennedy's funeral was modelled on Lincoln's funeral

 - Andrew Johnson was a heavy drinker with crude behaviour
   - Lyndon Johnson was a heavy drinker with crude behaviour

 - There were conspiracy theories that Johnson was knowledgeable about Lincoln's assassination
   - There were conspiracy theories that Johnson was knowledgeable about Kennedy's assassination**

 - Days before it happened Lincoln told his wife and friends about a dream he'd had of being shot by an assassin
 - Hours before it happened Kennedy told his wife and friends it would be easy for an assassin to shoot him from a crowd

 - Shortly after Lincoln was shot the telegraph system went down
 - Shortly after Kennedy was shot the telephone system went down

 - Kennedy's father had been the Ambassador to England at the Court of St James
 - Lincoln's son became the Ambassador to England at the Court of St James

- Lincoln and Kennedy were 2 of the greatest presidents of the nation

- Lincoln's wife tastefully and expensively re-decorated the White House
 - Kennedy's wife tastefully and expensively re-decorated the White House

- Lincoln loved great literature and could recite poetry by heart
 - Kennedy loved great literature and could recite poetry by heart

- Lincoln had young children while living at the White House
 - Kennedy had young children while living at the White House

- Lincoln's son had a pony he rode on the White House grounds
 - Kennedy's daughter had a pony she rode on the White House grounds

- Lincoln lost a child (12 year old son) to death while President
 - Kennedy lost a child (newly born son) to death while President

- Lincoln had 2 sons named Robert and Edward. Edward died young and Robert lived on.
 - Kennedy had 2 brothers named Robert and Edward. Robert died young and Edward lived on

- Lincoln let his children run and play in his office
 - Kennedy let his children run and play in his office

- After Lincoln's assassination the nation experienced an emotional convulsion
 - After Kennedy's assassination the nation experienced an emotional convulsion

- the whole world cried when Lincoln died
 - the whole world cried when Kennedy died

- Lincoln's funeral train travelled from Washington-DC to New York
 - Kennedy's brother's funeral train travelled from New York to Washington-DC

- Lincoln Assassination conspiracy theories are believed these 140 141 years later
 - Kennedy Assassination conspiracy theories are believed these 42 43 years later

- Abraham was the first name of the man who filmed Kennedy's murder in the Lincoln

- The man running alongside Kennedy's car snapping pictures with his 35mm camera was a salesman of Lincoln cars

- Kennedy bought a Virginia home that was the 1861 Civil War headquarters of Lincoln's first general-in-chief, McClellan

- Jefferson Davis was the name of the president of the Confederate states while Lincoln was president of the Union states
 - Jefferson Davis Tippit was the name of the police officer killed allegedly by Kennedy's alleged assassin

- Lincoln was famous for his wit and for telling hilarious stories and anecdotes
 - Kennedy was famous for his wit and for telling hilarious stories and anecdotes

- Lincoln was sitting in a rocking chair at Ford's Theater when he was shot
 - Kennedy had a special rocking chair he sat in at the White House
 - Henry Ford bought the rocking chair Lincoln died in and put it in his museum in Dearborn

- Kennedy's seat in the Lincoln he was sitting in when he was shot is in Ford's museum
 - Lincoln's seat in the Ford he was sitting in when he was shot is in Ford's museum

- John Kennedy is the name of a character in a 1951 movie about a detective travelling by train
   to thwart the assassination of President Lincoln
 - John Kennedy is the name of the real-life detective who travelled in the train with President Lincoln in 1860
   to thwart his assassination

- In 1863, the Tsar sent the war fleet of the Russian empire to assist President Lincoln during the American civil war
 - In 1962, during the Kennedy presidency, a fleet of Russian ships transporting instruments of war
   were steaming towards America with less benign intent

- Booth was loyal to the south, whose Confederate president was Jefferson Davis ----------------------NEW
 - Officer J.D. Tippit was killed [allegedly] by Oswald 2 blocks south of Davis Street and 1 block north of Jefferson Blvd;
   The streets run almost parallel and were named after Jefferson Davis
 - The officer's initials "J.D." stand for "Jefferson Davis"

- "Davis" is the last name of the people who lived in the house on the corner of Tenth and Patton ---------NEW
   where two empty bullet shells were found in the shrubs after the assassin ran diagonally
   across their yard on his way to Jefferson Boulevard

- The handgun Oswald allegedly used to kill Tippit was a .38 Smith & Wesson revolver ---------NEW
 - The handgun JFK used to announce his location after shipwreck was a .38 Smith & Wesson revolver
 - The barrel of the handgun found on Kennedy's alleged killer was 2 1/4 inches long
 - The barrel of the handgun used by Lincoln's killer was 2 1/2 inches long

- There are only two times in USA history that incumbent vice-presidents ran for president and lost: --------NEW
 - Incumbent Vice-President Breckinridge lost to Lincoln in the 1860 election
 - Incumbent Vice-President Nixon lost to Kennedy in the 1960 election

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hank sends a coincidence about vice-presidents Breckinridge & Nixon

OSWALD HANDGUN SAME JFK .38 REVOLVER (Jackie noticed both revolvers were made by Smith & Wesson)

JEFFERSON DAVIS IN LINCOLN-KENNEDY KILLINGS (Ray sends coincidences about the shooting of policeman J D Tippit)

LINCOLN-KENNEDY & CZAR COINCIDENCES (Erwin sends coincidence about Russian war ships sailing to America during the presidencies of both)

~ Michael found a Lincoln/Kennedy coincidence in the 1951 movie "The Tall Target"

Johnson Lincoln Johnson JFK LINCOLN-KENNEDY JOHNSONS ALIKE (James says Andrew & Lyndon each have pug nose & slicked-back hair)

Ondra sends coincidences about Lincoln's and Kennedy's seat-mates being injured, their wives holding their heads, and both not dying immediately after being shot

LBJ AIR FORCE 2 TO 1 (...Glancing at the bronze box, Mrs. Kennedy began to think of Abraham Lincoln. The buoyant, youthful sophisticated John F. Kennedy became fused in the shadow of death with the wary, cavernous man who had sealed the fractures in the union with the blood of its best boys. He, too, had had his Johnson; he, too, had died on a Friday; he, too, had been sitting with his wife; he, too, had been shot in the back of the head; in death he, too, had turned over the affairs of the nation to a man who was earthy, a vindictive Southerner who was politically alienated from his area.)

Sheila sends coincidence of Robert and Edward being sons and brothers

Marti sends a similarity about the seats JFK & Lincoln were sitting in

Jackie adds the rocking chair coincidence

***Christian says that 'y' is a vowel, not a consonant

Etaoin sends a Lincoln/JFK coincidence about consonants & vowels in their names

Silvia sends a JFK-Lincoln coincidence about the birthdays of Booth and Oswald

LINCOLN DREAMS JFK FUNERAL ('Who is dead in the White House?' I demanded of one of the soldiers, 'The President,' was his answer; 'he was killed by an assassin.')

LINCOLN, KENNEDY & MONEY (Carmen adds a coincidence to the list)

Rachel sends a coincidence to add to the Lincoln/JFK Coincidences List

Colin sends additions for the Lincoln & Kennedy Coincidences list

Raymond contributes more coincidence additions

Raymond contributes to developing list of strange JFK coincidences

- interesting fact: Lincoln picked Andrew Johnson as his second-term running mate in 1864. Kennedy, had he lived, probably would have picked Lyndon Johnson as his second-term running mate in 1964 (exactly 100 years later). Both Lincoln and JFK were assassinated during the first vice-presidential terms of men named Johnson.

THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS (delivered by President Lincoln on November 19, 1863 almost 100 years to the day before President Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963)

*Booth's death is debatable. Some researchers think a red-haired man was shot and buried in his place

**Lincoln's wife Mary wrote to a friend on March 15, 1866, "...that, that miserable inebriate Johnson, had cognizance of my husband's death - Why, was that card of Booth's, found in his box, some acquaintance certainly existed - I have been deeply impressed, with the harrowing thought, that he, had an understanding with the conspirators & they knew their man... As sure, as you & I live, Johnson, had some hand, in all this...")

[Plu]

Ok, I think you are right. And besides, a "forelock" or "front of the head" just cannot be lying or sinful, can it? It sounds so silly in some way... :-D

So do you think this is the same thing with this? http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_61.html
I really hope I am not annoying you or anything, sorry. But I cannot really imagine what the "shrinking of the womb"-part is supposed to mean when he actually talks about pregnancy what I suppose rather than the "miraculous mention of the periodic circle". What do you think?

Most likely they spoke of pregnancy, yes. Otherwise they would've probably added "monthly swelling" if they'd wanted to dazzle people in the future with their knowledge.

Don't assume that the ancient people meant some obscure bit of knowledge only recently discovered when there's an extremely obvious bit of knowledge they would've known about for ages that also matches exactly with what is written.

[Lolilla]

Ok, I think you are right. And besides, a "forelock" or "front of the head" just cannot be lying or sinful, can it? It sounds so silly in some way... :-D

So do you think this is the same thing with this? http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_61.html
I really hope I am not annoying you or anything, sorry. But I cannot really imagine what the "shrinking of the womb"-part is supposed to mean when he actually talks about pregnancy what I suppose rather than the "miraculous mention of the periodic circle". What do you think?

Most likely they spoke of pregnancy, yes. Otherwise they would've probably added "monthly swelling" if they'd wanted to dazzle people in the future with their knowledge.

Don't assume that the ancient people meant some obscure bit of knowledge only recently discovered when there's an extremely obvious bit of knowledge they would've known about for ages that also matches exactly with what is written.

That's what I thougt too. But then actually I don't really know what the "shrinking" part is supposed to mean. Abortion?

[Plu]

Probably either the birth, or the period after where the excess stomach skin slowly gets trimmed off again. But I don't really know, I can't see into the minds of ancient goat herders :P