Op/ed, gun death, the real problem.

[Brian37]

To all on the left and even NRA members, listen up, you are being duped. When the NRA first started it really was a lagit safety non profit organization. But now it is nothing but a racket and a heat shield for the manufactures.

Let me set the gun advocates straight here, YOU are ALSO being duped. The issue is not Constitutional rights, no sane person is disputing the Constitution. This is about MONEY and big business. This is about a manufacturing industry that cares more about profit than insuring that what they make does not end up in the wrong hands, LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY. Imagine if milk or eggs were killing people every day at the same rate of gun deaths. We would get something done to fix it.

This is about people with money abusing the system by flooding it with money to protect their business regardless of the amount of death a flooded market causes. We have 300 MILLION guns in circulation. Does anyone seriously think more would make us safer?

But also on a bigger picture, this is also about our lack of economic stability. Our lack of investment and exploding pay gap is creating more stress on more families and more fear. No, it is NOT a conspiracy. But it is a climate of both bullies with money, and a flooded market and no economic stability.

We need to long term at every turn think long term to beat the money and their propaganda. We have allowed them to frame the conversation and falsely play martyr precisely because they have successfully used a con to get us on ideological issues rather than class issues. Money equals power and money has in far too much of our politics has shaped the polices that have not only allowed a flooded gun market, but also the lack of social stability that if invested in WOULD reduce gun death.

Now there are NRA members and gun owners who want as much as we do to reduce gun death. I have no doubt about that. But again, only a fool would think we don't have a flooded market. This is about bullies with money using ideology to pit the left and right against each other to maintain their market.

Why should gun advocates care and be on our side? Because we do despite what the right and Fox News sells you, we do not want to take away your rights. We like you simply want LESS gun death. ALL GUN DEATHS, be they suicide, accidental, domestic murder, gang violence or mass shootings. 34 people a day on average die because of use of guns. If 34 people a day were dying from eating eggs or drinking milk, we would do something about it.

The truth is that the owners of these weapon's factories sell fear and ideology to prevent any sane law from being made to reduce gun death. If gun owners really want less gun death, then DONT let the manufactures pit you against me. This has never been about your rights, this IS about money and abuse of power. This is about putting profits over human lives.

The gun manufactures have thought long term and gun safety advocates, like what the NRA USED TO BE, need to think long term to beat them. MONEY, is the real issue, and both the left and right have been pitted against each other because of abuse of power and monopolies of power.

If we as a society want less gun death, the only way we are going to get it is to break that monopoly of power. Not just on gun issues, but also on economic issues.

[Brian37]

Let me add, abuse of power is not a ideology issue. All power, be it political power, religious power or business power require resources to be maintained. Gadaffi used his money, he was a billionaire, to maintain his monopoly of power. If he had not had any money at all he would not have gotten into power. China's communist party which thrives off sweat shop labor and selling cheap crap to the rest of the world ALSO needs money to  maintain it's political power.

ALL human ventures that grow big are a result of pooling MONEY. Now, how is it Japan, which is not a fascist state, which is basically one giant island city with a population of 150 million people, has virtually no gun death? Why, because their government has not allowed for the gun industry to gain a political monopoly in their country.

On the other hand though, in Japan, because of a rush for the buck their power industry which built the faulty nuclear power plant, resulted in not only death, but land that can no longer be used.  Their power CEOS also do what gun manufactures do and doge blame. They will blame it on the earthquake, instead of design flaw, just like gun manufactures blame it on the user and not the flooded market. Better redundancy and generators put high enough above any chance of flooding, would not have prevented the earthquake, no, but it could have prevented a complete meltdown. The gun industry doesn't even have it's metaphorical back up generators. It wants NO regulation at all, no redundancy and no accountability.

In both cases of that of guns, or dictators, or political parties or religion. There is such a thing as getting too big. ANYTHING that gets too big without a check on it, can become abusive, inept or dangerous which leads to bad outcomes.

Our flooded gun market is caused by the same thing that caused the meltdown in Japan. Is the same thing that caused the oil spills. The same thing that will cause problems in the fracking business. The same thing that creates theocracies and dictatorships. The same thing that created the coal mine monopolies that turned workers into slaves paid by company script.

FOLLOW THE MONEY, in every case, when any human venture gains it, for politics, religion or business, there will always be the potential for abuse of power.

Japan will learn from it's disaster. When will we learn that a flooded gun market is no good for society? If both sides want LESS GUN DEATH, then the real enemy are not gun owners, but monopolies of power.

[LikelyToBreak]

Excuse me, but how will my giving up my guns change the "exploding pay gap?"  Brian37 seems to think that gun manufacturers are major players in politics because of their vast wealth.  In a quick search, I could find no firearm manufacturers in the top 100 companies, public or private.  Firearm manufacturers while often long lived, are not making that much money.  A few make pretty good money selling to the military and police forces, but not all that much for the sale of guns to private citizens.  While I will concede, that to the manufacturers themselves and to their employees making a profit is important, the industry as a whole is hardly a blip on the radar screen when compared to other industries.

I do agree, we should just let this issue go, and work on challenging the income gap and real health cost reforms, but the 1%er's controlled press are not about to focus on the real issues.  There are about 83 suicides a day, but nobody seems to notice, unless they use a gun to commit the act.  How many of these suicides are because of the person having economic problems?  How many are because of undiagnosed or misdiagnosed medical problems?  Yet, the left seems to just think if only there were less guns, then the suicide rate would half, because about half of the suicides use guns.  Come on!  

So, what I am getting from Brian37 is, that if we just rollover and give up our guns, than the left can concentrate on really fixing the wage gap, the health care system, and bring true equality to all mankind.  It is just those who want to keep their firearms who are causing all of the problems.  I call bullshit.

The problem is an uninformed, unmotivated public, who allow the excesses of the politicians, the press, and the rich to go unanswered for.  And since the public refuses to become informed and motivated, things are going to stay the same, rather we have firearms or not.  Getting rid of firearms will not stop mass murder.  Though admittedly, it would stop mass shootings, assuming you could get all of the firearms.  Which seems impossible, as the police and military are not going to give their firearms up until something more lethal comes along.

We should not let the 1%er's press to sway us away from real issues, by constantly distracting us with firearms, abortion, terrorism, Elvis Presley sightings and such.  Let's get start demanding the press honestly report the news.  Rather then getting up in a lather about the disaster of the day the press feed us.

[Brian37]

Stop this is not about YOU, this is about the manufactures. This is about big business and monopoly of power, NOT YOU.

300 million guns. Do you think 1 billion guns would make us safer?

You have no excuse. When we get our gun death down to the same rate as Japan then I will stop bitching.

[GSOgymrat]

[Brian37]

That sums it up. Use fear scare the shit out of gun owners, sell more guns.

[LikelyToBreak]

What gun manufacturer is in the Forbes top 500?  I am not talking about weapon's manufacturers, but firearm manufacturers.

[GSOgymrat]

One of my brothers own an aquarium store adjacent to a gun shop. When Obama was elected and any time there is a crisis people line up and pallets of firearms are moved. The owner of the gun shop plays into people's fears and paranoia with NRA propaganda. I told my brother he needs to get in on the action and put up a sign "Obama wants to take away your tropical fish! Stock up before he has them banned!"

[Brian37]

Ever see the dog and Foghorn cartoon where Daffy pits the two against each other, until at the end both the dog and Foghorn realize Daffy is conning both of them.

That is how any good con works. Confuse people, scare people, keep them divided, play off both sides, keep them divided.

[Brian37]

What gun manufacturer is in the Forbes top 500?  I am not talking about weapon's manufacturers, but firearm manufacturers.

What the fuck? No millionaire is on the 500 list, but that doesn't mean they are poor. Stupid argument. You are still talking about rich people who use the NRA as a heat shield.

And again, how has so far 300 million guns made us safer? Think about that because in the next 24 hours an average of 34 people will die as the result of gun use.

[Johan]

Why should gun advocates care and be on our side? Because we do despite what the right and Fox News sells you, we do not want to take away your rights. We like you simply want LESS gun death. ALL GUN DEATHS, be they suicide, accidental, domestic murder, gang violence or mass shootings.

Ok but I don't want less gun deaths. I want less deaths. Making it more difficult to obtain the primary tool used in killing others does nothing to fix the actual problem.

[Brian37]

Why should gun advocates care and be on our side? Because we do despite what the right and Fox News sells you, we do not want to take away your rights. We like you simply want LESS gun death. ALL GUN DEATHS, be they suicide, accidental, domestic murder, gang violence or mass shootings.

Ok but I don't want less gun deaths. I want less deaths. Making it more difficult to obtain the primary tool used in killing others does nothing to fix the actual problem.

What?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog ... ssociation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ip-us-data

http://democracyweb.com/?p=12230

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... the-world/

http://news168.co.uk/index/high-gun-own ... tudy-finds

Now here is where you call it all a liberal media conspiracy.

[LikelyToBreak]

Brian37 Wrote in part:

What the fuck? No millionaire is on the 500 list, but that doesn't mean they are poor. Stupid argument. You are still talking about rich people who use the NRA as a heat shield.

Brian37 asserted that the firearms manufacturers were throwing money around for their personal benefit while killing 34 people a day.  They don't have the money to influence congress and the president, yet they are being accused of doing so.  But, maybe there is another problem contributing to that 34 people killed a day.  As I suggested before:

I do agree, we should just let this issue go, and work on challenging the income gap and real health cost reforms, but the 1%er's controlled press are not about to focus on the real issues. There are about 83 suicides a day, but nobody seems to notice, unless they use a gun to commit the act. How many of these suicides are because of the person having economic problems? How many are because of undiagnosed or misdiagnosed medical problems? Yet, the left seems to just think if only there were less guns, then the suicide rate would half, because about half of the suicides use guns. Come on!

The top richest in the world, like it when we argue about firearm ownership.  That way we are not watching what they are doing.  The so-called left accuse the so-called right of being unreasonable in banning and rounding up all firearms from "private" citizens.  I allege the so-called left as being unreasonable in continuing to harp on this subject when they could be working on realistic solutions to the problems which are actually causing 34 people a day to get shot.  Open your mind to new solutions to old problems.  I know the solutions are out there.  Don't just worry about whether your neighbor is armed or not.  Worry if he has a reason to use a firearm against you.

Bottom line, the left which 89% of the mainline media personalities are, last I heard, are ignoring how the rich are taking the rest of us to the cleaners.  Mean while they harp on "gun control," like taking the firearms out of law-abiding Americans hands will solve everything.  It won't.  

Let's find common ground and go from there.  Don't threaten to kill me to make your utopian world, the Muslims have already done so and I have not changed my mind.

Oh, just for everyone's information I don't watch Fox news.  I listen to the comedy network on the radio, not Rush what's his face.

[Johan]

Now here is where you call it all a liberal media conspiracy.

Wow its like you're inside my brain. You know exactly what I'm going to say before I even say it. Except you don't. No liberal media conspiracy claims from me. Near as I can tell, the only one talking about conspiracies is you.

I want the murder rate to go down because fewer people want to murder each other, not because the tools to do so are harder to get. I think solving the actual problem is a better idea. Simple as that.

[Brian37]

Yea damned right the rich are taking us to the cleaners. That is what an imbalanced system will do.

"I don't listen to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh"

So?

Now you have bought into the stupid fucking lie that liberals are anti business. I can name rich people, and businesses that do try to do the right thing, there simply are not enough of them.


COSTCO, MOO CLUCK MOO, NICK HANOUR, SUZIE ORMAN. If the majority of businesses did what these rich people do, our economy would NOT be in the mess it is in now.

I do not want to end business, so please fucking knock it off.