Black atheism

[surly74]

why does it matter what he calls himself?

is tribalism really that big of a deal?

[Plu]

The other problem with "just agnostic" is that no matter how you act in life; you must act either taking the will of god into account or not taking it into account. There's no way to justify not taking his will into account if you believe in him, because no rational person would ignore the guy who decides whether eternity is pleasant or not for you.

By not acting in accordance to the will of god, he's basically already shown us that he doesn't believe in god. He can call himself "agnostic" all he wants, but on the topic of believing or not, he doesn't believe.

It's kinda like saying "well I'm undecided on the existance of gravity" but still using the ground floor door to exit buildings 100% of the time. You might claim you haven't decided, but you clearly do believe in it, otherwise you'd occasionaly (just once, really) leave through the window as well.

[Plu]

why does it matter what he calls himself?

is tribalism really that big of a deal?

Tribalism, no. Lying, yes. Especially for a scientist. He doesn't have to associate with other atheists, or call himself a member of the "atheist group" (whatever that is. I don't think it exists). But it's simply dishonest to claim you aren't an atheist when you don't believe in any gods.

[surly74]

why does it matter what he calls himself?

is tribalism really that big of a deal?

Tribalism, no. Lying, yes. Especially for a scientist. He doesn't have to associate with other atheists, or call himself a member of the "atheist group" (whatever that is. I don't think it exists). But it's simply dishonest to claim you aren't an atheist when you don't believe in any gods.

It's tribalism at its finest.

has he claimed to be anything else? does anything really think he's trying to be dishonest here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

[Plu]

I agree with everything he says, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a name for what he is, and it's "atheist". All the extra bagage attached, while a shame and unnecessary, doesn't really change that.

You'd probably hear how silly the whole argument is if you replace the word "religious" with "race" and the word "atheist" with "black". Just because you don't want the attached bagage, doesn't change the fact that you're still one.

And just because other people are ruining the word shouldn't mean that you should stop realising what you are. All you're really doing is making things unnessarily complicated.

Although it's probably primarily the huge amount of extra bagage attached to the word in the US. But really, what people should do is try to clear up the bagage, not make the word synonymous to something really bad and then try to distance themselves from it. You'll never get anywhere that way.

[TrueStory]

On more than one occassion I've heard Tyson say he knows atheists love to claim him, but he's really just agnostic.

I could sort of agree to that, been listening to a lot of Star Talk podcasts lately.  He doesn't apply the same across the board logic to religion that he does to the cosmos.  IMHO I think he would still fall into the category of atheist though.

[GSOgymrat]

Yesterday a black coworker said she knows a black atheist but that he is really strange. I asked how so and she said "He's into, like, witchcraft and stuff." I explained that an atheist would be the last person to believe in witchcraft. Upon further discussion it became clear she divided philosophical thought into two categories: 1) Christian and 2) everything else. I should add this woman has a MBA.

[Plu]

I explained that an atheist would be the last person to believe in witchcraft.

There's literally nothing that would indicate an atheist is less likely to believe in witchcraft than any other person. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in god. There's plenty around here who believe in various sorts of sillyness like that.

Of course, the divide in two categories is still really dumb. But atheists are not inherently better or less likely to believe in nonsense than anyone else. It may only seem different when you come from a highly religious place, where only people with considerable smarts and strength of character are willing to come out as atheists. Once you travel to the more secular reaches of the earth, atheists become just as dumb as your local theists.

[GSOgymrat]

I explained that an atheist would be the last person to believe in witchcraft.

There's literally nothing that would indicate an atheist is less likely to believe in witchcraft than any other person. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in god. There's plenty around here who believe in various sorts of sillyness like that.

Really? I have not been on this board very long and had no idea there were atheist witches. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain how that works.

[leo]

I don't know any black atheists .

[Plu]

It's simple. You don't believe in any gods, but you do believe in magic. All atheism means is "does not believe in gods". It says nothing else about you. Any other things you think when you hear "atheist" is you assigning bagage that doesn't belong with the word.

(Is Sabrina still around? She can probably explain better :))

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I explained that an atheist would be the last person to believe in witchcraft.

There's literally nothing that would indicate an atheist is less likely to believe in witchcraft than any other person. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in god. There's plenty around here who believe in various sorts of sillyness like that.

Really? I have not been on this board very long and had no idea there were atheist witches. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain how that works.

Well you've got your Buddhists, your Daoists, Scientologists, Jains, none of whom necessarily worship or acknowledge any deities, and believe in "magic" to varying degrees. Now I've never heard of atheist witches, per se, but it's not a huge stretch from this list.

[GSOgymrat]

It's simple. You don't believe in any gods, but you do believe in magic. All atheism means is "does not believe in gods". It says nothing else about you. Any other things you think when you hear "atheist" is you assigning bagage that doesn't belong with the word.

(Is Sabrina still around? She can probably explain better :))

Thank goodness I can still believe in vampires, ancient aliens, the Long Island Medium and still keep my atheist card. I assume I can believe in ghosts as long as it is not the Holy Ghost.

[Hurt]

I used to work with a black female atheist here in San Antonio. Nice person, she passed the bar exam and moved on to better things.

[Colanth]

O.T isn't the only black atheist we've had here on the forum.  There was one, as I recall, who was moving from somewhere in the southwest(?) to NY, I think, for college last year.  And I seem to vaguely recall one or two others.