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Anti-Vaxx 101 Thread

Started by Susan, October 09, 2022, 11:39:39 AM

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Susan

Well, keeping it straight to the point, even though COVID-19 is ''over'' in many countries throughout the world, there are several questions that still pop up from time to time. So, I decided to create a thread where we can attempt to debunk anti-vaxx claims (concerning all vaccines but ESPECIALLY the ones against COVID-19). So, I myself will start. My own father does not believe in COVID-19 vaccines, and took one shot only (so not even ''fully'' vaccinated). He claims that the vaccine(s) don't work, since the Pfizer CEO got COVID-19 twice. I realize some people are immune (pun intended) to rationality, but what can I say against his claim?

Anyone can chime in...

Shiranu

Eh; probably a lot worse than liberals want to admit, and nowhere near the apocalyptic plague poison the GOP want to portray it as.
All the evils that men cause to each other because of certain desires, or opinions or religious principles, are rooted in ignorance. [All hatred would come to an end] when the earth was flooded with the knowledge of God. - Moses Ben Maimon

Mike Cl

Actually, covid is not over--and it will never be over.  It will always be with us much like the flu is never going to be 'over'.  Sorry to hear that one you love has fallen into the anti-vax group.  I have some in my family that have done the same.  How can you change their mind?  You can't.  It is very much like trying to use facts and rational thinking to change the mind of a christian.  Facts and rational thinking is of the devil and using beliefs and faith is of god.  So, facts and rational thinking are bad things in their minds--the anti-vax crowd is the same.  I have a nurse in my family that is anti-vax--I don't come close to understanding that!!!  She is supposed to be steeped in science, but not in this case.  How can one be a nurse and be anti-science????!!  Rational thinking and facts don't dissuade her wrong ideas about vaccines. 

My only suggestion is that you take the low pressure road--give you dad short articles about how vaccines have keep people safe from some diseases and even can wipe out others.  If you talk to him, make the talks short, low key and then change the subject.  But do it often.  Good luck in any case.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Blackleaf

Vaccines don't make people immune. They prepare the body by exposing it to a piece of, dead sample of, or synthetic mimic of a disease. That way, when the body is exposed to the real thing, its response is quicker, reducing the symptoms and severity of the disease.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Hydra009

Quote from: Susan on October 09, 2022, 11:39:39 AMWell, keeping it straight to the point, even though COVID-19 is ''over'' in many countries throughout the world
It is most definitely not over, despite widespread opinion.  I can personally vouch for the ongoing circulation of such diseases.  Thankfully, this cycle was broken with me.  But it could have (and should have) been broken much, much, much sooner.  I shudder to think how many intermediate hosts this thing went through over the course of two and a half years from Wuhan China to North Carolina.

...actually, it's going to bug me if I don't.  Let's say it takes a week to spread from one person to another, that's about 130 successful intermediate hosts from patient zero to me.  In human terms, that's like tracing my heritage from the present day US to ancient Egypt under Ramesses II.  (Assuming 25 years per generation)  Math is fun.

QuoteHe claims that the vaccine(s) don't work, since the Pfizer CEO got COVID-19 twice. I realize some people are immune (pun intended) to rationality, but what can I say against his claim?
Vaccines don't make you invincible, they just greatly reduce the severity of the illness.  They also reduce the likelihood of getting infected in the first place, but with all the variants floating around, that's not as sure a thing as it once was.

Dark Lightning

The thing about vaccines is that if EVERYONE got vaccinated for a disease (let's pick smallpox), the disease can be eradicated. But nooo, some ultra-religious dorks don't want the jab, and bring it back into the general population. If we could just isolate those assholes, we'd have a fighting chance. The US has so many uneducated people who can be led by the nose about vaccines that I don't ever expect to see the end of this shit.

the_antithesis


So, here's the thing about anti-vaxxers. There were many when vaccines were first invented, sounds reasonable. Inject a disease in to me to prevent me from getting that disease? MADNESS. But that whole movement quickly died out because when vaccines worked, they shut their fucking mouths. So for two hundred years, nothing. Now all of a sudden we have idiots who don't trust the shit that made it possible for them to be here today because their grandfather did not die of polio when he was a child because of vaccines.And it's all because of this asshole Andrew Wakefield. There was nothing before this guy. And Wakefield was trying to create doubt in one particular vaccine SO HE COULD MARKET AND SELL AN ALTERNATIVE VACCINE.

The problem here is people are stupid, like how smoking became a symbol for libertarianism. People will say it's about choice and control but will then vote republican without even thinking about it (no one who isn't a billionaire should vote republican)

Personally, I'm just waiting for the anti-vaxxers to die. They want to die. I want them to die. They should just hurry the fuck up. The rest of us want our lives to go back to normal.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Blackleaf on October 09, 2022, 01:31:12 PMVaccines don't make people immune. They prepare the body by exposing it to a piece of, dead sample of, or synthetic mimic of a disease. That way, when the body is exposed to the real thing, its response is quicker, reducing the symptoms and severity of the disease.
Vaccines educate the immune system the way books educate the mind.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Dark Lightning

Quote from: the_antithesis on October 09, 2022, 08:43:07 PM

So, here's the thing about anti-vaxxers. There were many when vaccines were first invented, sounds reasonable. Inject a disease in to me to prevent me from getting that disease? MADNESS. But that whole movement quickly died out because when vaccines worked, they shut their fucking mouths. So for two hundred years, nothing. Now all of a sudden we have idiots who don't trust the shit that made it possible for them to be here today because their grandfather did not die of polio when he was a child because of vaccines.And it's all because of this asshole Andrew Wakefield. There was nothing before this guy. And Wakefield was trying to create doubt in one particular vaccine SO HE COULD MARKET AND SELL AN ALTERNATIVE VACCINE.

The problem here is people are stupid, like how smoking became a symbol for libertarianism. People will say it's about choice and control but will then vote republican without even thinking about it (no one who isn't a billionaire should vote republican)

Personally, I'm just waiting for the anti-vaxxers to die. They want to die. I want them to die. They should just hurry the fuck up. The rest of us want our lives to go back to normal.

Fucking Wakefield. Though, to be fair, it would just probably have been some other Pied Piper. At least he had his license to practice medicine taken away. Now, if Jenny McCarthy could just croak from a preventable disease...

The sad part about anti-vaxxers is that they are just vectors for the continued spread of a disease. If it was only them, we could all stand around, talking about "too bad". But that shit spreads without regard for ignorance or knowledge, and kills many other people who would have not been otherwise exposed.

Blackleaf

Quote from: Dark Lightning on October 09, 2022, 09:22:13 PMFucking Wakefield. Though, to be fair, it would just probably have been some other Pied Piper. At least he had his license to practice medicine taken away. Now, if Jenny McCarthy could just croak from a preventable disease...

The sad part about anti-vaxxers is that they are just vectors for the continued spread of a disease. If it was only them, we could all stand around, talking about "too bad". But that shit spreads without regard for ignorance or knowledge, and kills many other people who would have not been otherwise exposed.

McCarthy, unfortunately, isn't a real anti-vaxxer. He changed his story when he realized he could make a living selling a lie to stupid people. He is, no doubt, full of all the recommended vaccines.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

GSOgymrat

#11
Quote from: Susan on October 09, 2022, 11:39:39 AMI realize some people are immune (pun intended) to rationality, but what can I say against his claim?

Anyone can chime in...

Years ago, I participated on a forum for people with HIV. There was a particular guy with HIV who, like many people, insisted that HIV didn't cause AIDS and he refused to take medication because "it's the toxic medications that are killing people." The more people argued with him, the more entrenched he became in his position. He died after a few months. For some people, their concerns are deeper than just taking a vaccine to prevent illness. Educating people about vaccines sometimes does not change people's mind because their concerns are about more than vaccines. It takes time and patience to address those concerns and I often find it easier to let people have their misguided opinions.

the_antithesis


Mr.Obvious

Quote from: Susan on October 09, 2022, 11:39:39 AMHe claims that the vaccine(s) don't work, since the Pfizer CEO got COVID-19 twice. I realize some people are immune (pun intended) to rationality, but what can I say against his claim?

Anyone can chime in...

Tell him that fucking with condom can still get you an std or a baby, but that you are sure that when you were younger he wouldn't have appreciated his children saying that meant they never used protection cause it was clear it didn't work.

Though that may be weird to say to your dad.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Susan

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 19, 2022, 03:40:15 PMTell him that fucking with condom can still get you an std or a baby, but that you are sure that when you were younger he wouldn't have appreciated his children saying that meant they never used protection cause it was clear it didn't work.

Though that may be weird to say to your dad.

Good point hahahahaha