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Catholic Church "Miracles"

Started by Paolo, December 07, 2020, 12:58:43 PM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 06:04:14 AM
Also, this pointless pressuring of "give me more evidence" is getting rather stale and tiresome.
Of course it is for you, because you have not supplied any evidence that jesus was real.  So, backed into a corner would be 'stale and tiresome'.  Instead of basing any opinion on facts and not 'well that is what I believe', why not act like the skeptic you claim to be and make a decision based on facts?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

drunkenshoe

#271
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 13, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
Probably.  That is the danger of using 10 thumbs to type with--and then mix in old age and, well, it is a wonder you can read anything I type.

Oh I must be 150 then. :ppp
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 06:04:14 AM
Also, this pointless pressuring of "give me more evidence" is getting rather stale and tiresome.

Yeah, it is pointless because you are retarded. So either try to learn or fuck off. Your opinion on evidence doesn't mean shit.
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Paolo

Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 09:44:19 AM
Yeah, it is pointless because you are retarded. So either try to learn or fuck off. Your opinion on evidence doesn't mean shit.

You are the one who is a retarted dipshit. Mike hasn't answered half my points. Now go back to your mother's basement, fucktard.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

Paolo

Note that I was kind enough to concede that we should agree to disagree. Of course, the atheist dumbfucks here are too arrogant to grant even that small diplomatic point, and thus have to resort to childish insults.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

Paolo

Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 09:44:19 AM
Yeah, it is pointless because you are retarded. So either try to learn or fuck off. Your opinion on evidence doesn't mean shit.

I will "fuck off" only when I want, retarded motherfucker.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

Mike Cl

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 04:48:01 PM
Note that I was kind enough to concede that we should agree to disagree. Of course, the atheist dumbfucks here are too arrogant to grant even that small diplomatic point, and thus have to resort to childish insults.
It's too bad you are an atheist--or claim to be--you talk and argue like a theist.  As far as I am concerned, and can tell by your so called responses, you are a theist.  A small minded, mean spirited, gutless, ignorer of facts.  Facts would hurt your poor little void in your head where you should have a brain.  So, in all kindness I say--fuck off and keep your meaningless comments to yourself.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

the_antithesis

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 06:04:14 AM
Also, this pointless pressuring of "give me more evidence" is getting rather stale and tiresome.

Not "more" but "any."

Paolo

Quote from: the_antithesis on February 13, 2021, 05:36:27 PM
Not "more" but "any."

I already cited Josephus. You can play blind man if you want to.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 04:44:26 PM
You are the one who is a retarted dipshit. Mike hasn't answered half my points. Now go back to your mother's basement, fucktard.

Citing Josephus doesn't mean anything. Mike didn't need to answer any of your posts to begin with. Because you haven't offered anything. And you can't follow what is going on here. You are retarded because you think if you push it long enough, people will accept your opinion or you. That is not going to happen. It's not just that you don't get it, you don't want or care to get anything here. So you'll stop whining about it. Your opinion on evidence doesn't mean shit.
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Paolo

Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 08:57:48 PM
Citing Josephus doesn't mean anything.

Josephus is a non-Christian source who mentioned Jesus (not Bible Jesus, but *a* Jesus). Isn't that enough?

And I like to have the last word, or at least reach an agreement to disagree. But Mike keeps claiming victory. That's arrogance.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

drunkenshoe

#281
Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 10:03:50 PM
Josephus is a non-Christian source who mentioned Jesus (not Bible Jesus, but *a* Jesus). Isn't that enough?

No. It's not a valid source. It's a religious text that has been copied and translated over and over again by religious scholars because it is a religious text. But then it does not even matter what they say. It is not a valid source today. It wasn't a valid source long time ago.

If you are after some sort of consensus, the Oxford Dictionary has removed Jesus from history entry to myth entry because while it has been obvious for a long time, now people are free to declare it as a collective, mythical character.   

QuoteAnd I like to have the last word, or at least reach an agreement to disagree. But Mike keeps claiming victory. That's arrogance.

You can't have the last word. All you are able to do is shit all over the board and celebrate. Nobody cares what you think or what you like. You have no intention of questioning anything. Do you honestly think you are the first person who brought this subject up in this forum? Or that you'll offer something so brilliant that people will start to think differently?

How do you start a sentence with 'I'd like to have the last word' and end it with calling someone else arrogant?  Mike was unnecessarily good to you in my personal opinion. And this the result. You should have been completely ignored after that saint tongue.
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Mike Cl

Quote from: Paolo on February 13, 2021, 10:03:50 PM
Josephus is a non-Christian source who mentioned Jesus (not Bible Jesus, but *a* Jesus). Isn't that enough?

And I like to have the last word, or at least reach an agreement to disagree. But Mike keeps claiming victory. That's arrogance.
I clearly demonstrated that Josephus IS NOT a witness, for he did not write anything about your favorite hero.  Two sections of his writings are shown to have had material not written by him inserted into his writings and was supposed to be made to look like he wrote it.  But, apparently you don't know how to read---nor think.  You clearly act like a theist who pretends to be an atheist.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

drunkenshoe

#283
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 14, 2021, 09:16:36 AM
I clearly demonstrated that Josephus IS NOT a witness, for he did not write anything about your favorite hero.  Two sections of his writings are shown to have had material not written by him inserted into his writings and was supposed to be made to look like he wrote it. But, apparently you don't know how to read---nor think.  You clearly act like a theist who pretends to be an atheist.

The point is, that's actually the 'legitimate' tradition of literacy of that age. :lol: There is written culture but it is verbal, not textual. That's what scholiasts did for example. Pen holders added stuff in margins all the time and as there was no publishing technology, they all made their own copies -that was the elemantary education, the initial part of scholarship; reading and studying texts by copying them and create your own edition, maybe one day a complete original one or an official 'critique'. Ideally a 'discourse'. That's basically the reason for the 'pseudo-insert name ' writers you see popping up here and there throught history. Some of them are even better; more advanced than their originals, some of them are just changed according to the understanding and the administration of the time. The most of the pics of the pages of Josephus' Antiquties in the net are the 'published' commercial ones from 15th century and later. The manuscript was written in the end of first century.

Furthermore, even after the Western invention of the printing press, foundation of universities, spread of literacy... the printers did editings. They have 'corrected' passages and text because they thought it was 'wrong' or 'incorrect'. Mostly, this was not even something done in sinister spirit to manipulate people, if you will, lol. that's the understanding of the times. There is no systematic education, any scientific method or tradition. The understanding of knowledge is something completely different. 

Even the 19th century texts are pretty much the same for us. Anything before modern state, two great scientific revolutions... Nope. It doesn't work. They all have been interpreted over and over again and written with the new set of concepts, replaced in new contexts and of course in new language.   

In my mother language, there is a very old phrase 'someone who's licked ink'. While it sounds ridiculous in English, it's literal for the old scholars, students because ink was licked when you need to correct or wipe out something from the page i old days and because that's how you learn, by writing. So an educated person is 'a person who's licked ink'. It's still used widely.

And the consequences of modern means of education; learning without 'licking' and 'writing' are probably awful. But it is another dicussion.


"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Mike Cl

I would like the above--but the like system is down.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?