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Pax et bonum from Holubice...

Started by Holubice, April 12, 2020, 05:52:42 AM

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Holubice

Good morning,

My name is Holubice, a middle aged man form Italy. Please excuse me for my next mistakes, here and forward, as English is not my mother tongue. I have never been a religious man, since I was about 10-11 years old, I have never been interested on Church, priests, Gospel, and whatever. I just didn't care at all, till I was 30 years old, as I had a N.D.E....

Near-death experience



... to understand what I mean. This even has completely transformed my live, upside-down, since that day changed completely  my goals, my points of views and my beliefs. Just afterward my 'trip', I read again the Gospel and, in just one night, I got an impressive controls of Holy Bible.

I have spent about 15 years to try to convert your colleagues (the Italians Atheist Forum) with (honestly) poor results.  I'm also sure that the present Pandemia have to be named into Plague, because:


  • This virus does not kill innocent babies
  • This virus does not kill the poor Black Men in the poorest countries of Africa
  • This virus does not kill the poor immigrants living in the richest West countries
  • This virus is killing those countries that have been egoist and ruthless towards refugees
  • Canada and United States have the same social and economical strength: why they have so few deaths in Canada, why it is a hecatomb in USA?
  • Germany and France have the same social and economical strength: why they have so few deaths  in Germany, why it is a hecatomb in France?
  • Sweden and Switzerland have the same social and economical strength: why they have so few deaths in Sweden, why it is a hecatomb in Switzerland?
I know those explanations may disappoint some of you, but that it is. I'm typing in different forums, so I may be late to respond you. That's all for now.





"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)

SGOS

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 05:52:42 AM
Good morning,
My name is Holubice, a middle aged man form Italy. Please excuse me for my next mistakes, here and forward, as English is not my mother tongue.
You mistakes in grammar and language are fine.  However, your reasoning concerns me.  I was raised and taught to believe in God, but as I got older, I started looking at it logically.  I decided Christianity and religion were nonsense at worst or just props to deal with reality.  Your NDE was a dream, and from that dream you interpreted a god.  Your personal anecdotes don't impress me.  Telling me you found God on an oxygen deprived brain of a near death experience is about the worst evidence you can begin this discussion with.

Mike Cl

Welcome to the forum.  Hope you stick around--well, maybe.  You have the right to believe anything you want.  But don't expect me to think you are right, for you aren't right.  I can tell from your post that you are not much of a thinker or searcher for facts; you are a theist who can only use their emotions and then accept all this god/jesus stuff based only on beliefs. 

I don't mind discussing any aspect of your fictional religion, but I'll be using facts and reasoning; can you do that? 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Well your first four “points” are wrong. The last three just jibberish.
Oh welcome formerly brain oxygen deprived person.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Holubice

Quote from: SGOS on April 12, 2020, 08:43:45 AM
You mistakes in grammar and language are fine.  However, your reasoning concerns me.  I was raised and taught to believe in God, but as I got older, I started looking at it logically.  I decided Christianity and religion were nonsense at worst or just props to deal with reality.  Your NDE was a dream, and from that dream you interpreted a god.  Your personal anecdotes don't impress me.  Telling me you found God on an oxygen deprived brain of a near death experience is about the worst evidence you can begin this discussion with.
This introduction is to explain where everything begun. I never talk of my N.D.E. around as, from my experience, I know anybody think you got somehow crazy, or nearby...

The most  important event it's the great control of Holy Bible I got soon afterward, that it's the real reason I'm here in your site, in several different other forums, using all the languages I know. As I have a message, and an alert to give to you. I have to advice you, and soon afterward, you have to help me. As, I am sure, this is the Beginning of the End. In other word, this:


Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you, there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.
3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world?
4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you.
5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many.
6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass: but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And there shall be pestilences and famines and earthquakes in places.
8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be scandalized and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many.
12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.
13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come.
15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.
19 And woe to them that are with child and that give suck in those days.
20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter or on the sabbath.
21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.
22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo here is Christ, or there: do not believe him.
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east and appeareth even into the west: so shall also the cowling of the Son of man be.
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.
29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. And then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.
31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.
32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.
33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Amen I say to you that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass: but my words shall not pass.
36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.
37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For, as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark:
39 And they knew not till the flood came and took them all away: so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then two shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
42 Watch ye therefore, because you know not what hour your Lord will come.
43 But this know ye, that, if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch and would not suffer his house to be broken open.
44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come.
45 Who, thinkest thou, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath appointed over his family, to give them meat in season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing.
47 Amen I say to you: he shall place him over all his goods.
48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord is long a coming:
49 And shall begin to strike his fellow servants and shall eat and drink with drunkards:
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not and at an hour that he knoweth not

[/spoiler]
"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)

Holubice

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 12, 2020, 08:50:57 AM
Welcome to the forum.  Hope you stick around--well, maybe.  You have the right to believe anything you want.  But don't expect me to think you are right, for you aren't right.  I can tell from your post that you are not much of a thinker or searcher for facts; you are a theist who can only use their emotions and then accept all this god/jesus stuff based only on beliefs. 

I don't mind discussing any aspect of your fictional religion, but I'll be using facts and reasoning; can you do that?
If you are interested on what I have to say, I will talk to you. Otherwise I will add your user in my ignore list, and I will continue with your mates in the forum (If any). You feel free to do the same with my user. I have not time to loose in explanation. I have spent 15 years in doing so here (Italian Atheist Forum) so I know by memory all yours counter-argument (Occam rule, Russel's pot, Invisibile Unicorn, etc, etc...). I am in a hurry. If you ban me, will pass over to another place, as I have been ordered to do


Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
1 And after these things, the Lord appointed also other seventy-two. And he sent them two and two before his face into every city and place whither he himself was to come.
2 And he said to them: The harvest indeed is great, but the labourers are few. Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest that he send labourers into his harvest.
3 Go: Behold I send you as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 Into whatever house you enter, first say: Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon him: but if not, it shall return to you.
7 And in the same house, remain, eating and drinking such things as they have: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Remove not from house to house.
8 And into what city soever you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.
9 And heal the sick that are therein and say to them: The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city you enter, and they receive you not, going forth into the streets thereof, say:
11 Even the very dust of your city that cleaveth to us, we wipe off against you. Yet know this, that the kingdom of God is at hand.
12 I say to you, it shall be more tolerable at that day for Sodom than for that city.
[/spoiler]

Remember: He came 2.000 years ago as Savior. He's coming back as Judge.


"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)

Holubice

Quote from: aitm on April 12, 2020, 09:20:05 AM
Well your first four “points” are wrong. The last three just jibberish.
Oh welcome formerly brain oxygen deprived person.
My first 4 points are incontrovertible.

Look at the chart of deaths all around the World, and you will see the 'strange' oddity I have stressed out.

This Virus is looking for the persons who has to kill.

"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)

SGOS

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
I have a message, and an alert to give to you. I have to advice you
I've already heard the message and been advised.  I just don't believe the message.

Baruch

Ciao, Holubice ...

We have many strange experiences.  I don't doubt a sincere anecdote.  Two nights ago I was with my parents, now deceased, in a dream I had.  For me, paranormal experiences are a "different kind of reality" from regular waking consciousness.  Because I am an empiricist first, rationalist second.  We have many confusing experiences while dreaming, or in visions etc.  Some more interesting than others, particularly vivid dreams.  I have met Napoleon Bonaparte at a wine-cheese party in Paris circa 1800 for example.  For me, ordinary experience is miraculous, and easier to understand.  But having unusual experiences did help me escape the normal confirmation bias we get from daily life.

Next time, post in Introductions please.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Holubice

Quote from: SGOS on April 12, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
I've already heard the message and been advised.  I just don't believe the message.
Ok, but stay tuned on news here forward...

Coronavirus: New York ramps up mass burials amid outbreak



"... Workers in hazmat outfits were seen stacking wooden coffins in deep trenches in Hart Island.
Officials say burials are being ramped up at site, which has long been used for people with no next-of-kin or families who cannot afford a funeral.
New York state now has more coronavirus cases than any single country.
The state's confirmed caseload of Covid-19 is nearly 162,000, of whom 7,844 have died.
Spain has recorded about 157,000 cases and Italy 143,600, while China, where the virus emerged last year, has nearly 83,000 cases.
The US as a whole has recorded 467,000 cases and about 16,700 deaths. Globally there are 1.6 million cases and 97,000 deaths...."
(CONTINUE IN THE LINK)

_________________________________________________________


Evidence from Wuhan’s morgues, crematoriums suggests COVID-19 deaths 20 times higher than official count




"... Chinese government data for Wuhan show that 2,535 people died and 50,006 were infected, but realistic numbers are 50,000 dead and 2.5 million infected.  ..."
(CONTINUE IN THE LINK)


Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
1 And there came to him the Pharisees and Sadducees tempting: and they asked him to shew them a sign from heaven.
2 But he answered and said to them: When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning: To day there will be a storm, for the sky is red and lowering. You know then how to discern the face of the sky: and can you not know the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign: and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. And he left them, and went away
[/spoiler]

Don't look at my posts. Look outside your window.




"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)

SGOS

#10
I can't imagine a real theist choosing Ned Flanders as an avatar, even as lovable as Ned was, I think we have a troll.

Baruch

Maybe he has a new Covid symptom ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 09:48:24 AM
My first 4 points are incontrovertible.

If by “incontrovertible” you actually mean bullshit, then you are correct. Your “facts” are as much bullshit as your babble.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 09:42:25 AM
If you are interested on what I have to say, I will talk to you. Otherwise I will add your user in my ignore list, and I will continue with your mates in the forum (If any). You feel free to do the same with my user. I have not time to loose in explanation. I have spent 15 years in doing so here (Italian Atheist Forum) so I know by memory all yours counter-argument (Occam rule, Russel's pot, Invisibile Unicorn, etc, etc...). I am in a hurry. If you ban me, will pass over to another place, as I have been ordered to do


Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
1 And after these things, the Lord appointed also other seventy-two. And he sent them two and two before his face into every city and place whither he himself was to come.
2 And he said to them: The harvest indeed is great, but the labourers are few. Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest that he send labourers into his harvest.
3 Go: Behold I send you as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 Into whatever house you enter, first say: Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon him: but if not, it shall return to you.
7 And in the same house, remain, eating and drinking such things as they have: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Remove not from house to house.
8 And into what city soever you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.
9 And heal the sick that are therein and say to them: The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city you enter, and they receive you not, going forth into the streets thereof, say:
11 Even the very dust of your city that cleaveth to us, we wipe off against you. Yet know this, that the kingdom of God is at hand.
12 I say to you, it shall be more tolerable at that day for Sodom than for that city.
[/spoiler]

Remember: He came 2.000 years ago as Savior. He's coming back as Judge.
Let's start with your wonderful, fanciful, and fictional jesus.  He is not a real person.  He is a fiction.  Can you show me the error of my ways?  Offer me some kind of evidence that he did exist, except in the minds of his creators.  You can't offer me any writer who was a witness of this supposed person/creature/fiction, because none wrote about him.  And no, the bible does not count.  And even in the bible, starting with the earliest writer, Paul, he wrote his first 'book' in the 50's, and the other authors of the NT are unknown and their material was written starting in the 70's. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Holubice

Quote from: SGOS on April 12, 2020, 10:25:14 AM
I can't imagine a real theist choosing Ned Flanders as an avatar, even as lovable as Ned was, I think we have a troll.
I'm not Theist. Voltair was a theist. I am a Christian.

And I'm using Ned Flanders since a long time ago... Again, fell free to check it out...

Instant guide Italian Atheist Forum

... don't get me wrong: I don't want to divert all of you to your colleague in my country, I just want to prove you I'm trying to persuade people like you since a long time ago, when nobody could suspect such a great mess like now.




"For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire"
(John the Baptist)