Wuhan Corona virus

[Baruch]

Show me an expert who has solved the problems I have listed. For that matter I'd be happy with a group of experts from multiple countries who have collectively solved most of the issues I've brought up even once among all the countries that have made this work. 

Show me a country that was basically in the same boat we are before making the change to single payer without a comprehensive plan to address the issues they knew they were going to have.

Legislation is magic.  Makes health and medical personnel appear out of nowhere.  Just like the ACA.

[Shiranu]

Show me a country that was basically in the same boat we are before making the change to single payer without a comprehensive plan to address the issues they knew they were going to have.

There is no comprehensive plan that will cover every single base; the system is simply too fucking complicated for that. By the time we have come up with one, the situation will have gotten far worse and a brand new plan will be needed, and that will continue until the sun burns out and the galaxy grows dark.

The people who created the problem now cry foul that fixing said problem will hurt them, and perhaps it will. But perhaps they shouldn't have made a career out of an exploiting system that makes human life a fucking commodity for them to make the divine choice of who lives and who dies based on how much it will line their wallet.

You know what civilized countries do? They see a problem and they fucking address it. And there might be hiccups and issues that rise along the way, but they fucking deal with it, they don't sit on their ass and cry about how hard it will be to do the right fucking thing.

[Baruch]

There is no comprehensive plan that will cover every single base; the system is simply too fucking complicated for that. By the time we have come up with one, the situation will have gotten far worse and a brand new plan will be needed, and that will continue until the sun burns out and the galaxy grows dark.

The people who created the problem now cry foul that fixing said problem will hurt them, and perhaps it will. But perhaps they shouldn't have made a career out of an exploiting system that makes human life a fucking commodity for them to make the divine choice of who lives and who dies based on how much it will line their wallet.

You know what civilized countries do? They see a problem and they fucking address it. And there might be hiccups and issues that rise along the way, but they fucking deal with it, they don't sit on their ass and cry about how hard it will be to do the right fucking thing.

This is why the Soviet Union failed, and if not rescued by the US, China would have failed.  The communist paper pushers couldn't find the proper form to go get permission to go to the bathroom.  Design by committee is better, the larger the committee gets. Particularly if decision are only political, not based on hard reality.

If you want to help sick people, go to medical school.  When you make some money, give some to the poor.  Otherwise, keep on hoping Robespierre will invite you to join the Terror in Paris ;-)

[Hydra009]

Show me an expert who has solved the problems I have listed.

Considering that a ton of countries made the transition successfully and haven't collapsed in the sort a doomsday scenario I'm increasingly sure is just in your head, it's pretty safe to think that there were people who knew how to make that transition.

And just fyi, this is an appeal to ignorance fallacy (assuming that relevant experts don't exist because you aren't familiar with them)

Show me a country that was basically in the same boat we are before making the change to single payer without a comprehensive plan to address the issues they knew they were going to have.

All of them had some of our issues to one extent or another, though none were in quite a rough shape.  Still, that fact alone does not an argument make: severe problems are not necessarily unsolvable (as you admitted yourself)

Now that you've had your grandstanding, go ahead and answer my question (I think most of us know why you haven't answered it): where has your nightmare scenario actually come to pass?

[Baruch]

You can't convince people why their politicians can't just pay them to say home, forever :-)

"New Jersey police find 17 bodies inside nursing home after getting tip claiming one was in a shed" ... part of the hidden death toll.  Sorry for the death of young people too.

"Coyotes howl in empty San Francisco Street as social distancing keeps roads free" ... homeless people, tastes like chicken? ;-)

Problems are solvable.  If you have no money, get a job.  If you have no health insurance, buy some (ACA still exists).  If you are too dysfunctional to hold a job, then I want legitimate welfare programs to help you (as they help my daughter).  But being a malingerer isn't a medical condition.

What is rhetoric ... what politicians and activists trade in?

Hate mankind - misanthropy

Hate a group - bigotry

Hate an individual - ad hominem

I choose to vent on mankind as a whole, because I don't want to be a bigot or a one-on-one asshole.

Right now, as part of quarantine, we have 30% unemployment, against the most vulnerable workers in our society.  That can't continue much longer.

If you hate the rich and powerful, then there is always sociopathy to guide you.

[Baruch]

"Trump Tells Governors Some States Can Reopen Before May 1" ... choice belongs to the governors.  They can follow Dr Fauci rules on eligibility

"North Dakota releases plan to reopen state May 1" ... Texas is jealous ;-)

"Facebook 'Fact Checker' Worked At Wuhan Biolab" ... woman has conflict of interest ... concerning Chinese propaganda.  Maybe she was the one who dropped the test tube?

PS ...

"Robert F. Kennedy Jr. exposes Gates plan to control global health policy" ... Democrat liberal philanthropist does't love CCP Gates.  His foundation has had terrible vaccine history in Kenya and India.  His father was a eugenicist (Nazi).

Trump estimates that 29 states will be ready for partial unlocking soon.  Sorry for the other 21, probably states with huge metro areas.

[Munch]

what I find just perplexing, is with the phrase 'we live in a time of uncertainty', in regards to the virus, as a backup to try and give answers to.

But why uncertainty? If we lived 20-30 years ago, before the internet, and all we were dependent on was news reports and newspapers, then maybe we might be facing uncertainty in these times. However since we live in the age of online information, we are able to look at things objectively ourselves, gather our own info, and have a much better scope of these things.

We know that china lied and keeps lying. We know the death tolls in other countries. We can observe ratios and statistics from those other countries and determine the longevity of this thing better then we could have years ago. 

this is why when here for example the uk lockdown has been extended to a further 3 weeks, why anyone would have been surprised by this is just weird. Of course it is going to be extended, because we have no vaccine, the virus might not have even reached its peak yet, and given how long its been in circulation in other countries the belief that this will end and everything will be safe and back to normal in a couple months is just ludicrous.

[Baruch]

what I find just perplexing, is with the phrase 'we live in a time of uncertainty', in regards to the virus, as a backup to try and give answers to.

But why uncertainty? If we lived 20-30 years ago, before the internet, and all we were dependent on was news reports and newspapers, then maybe we might be facing uncertainty in these times. However since we live in the age of online information, we are able to look at things objectively ourselves, gather our own info, and have a much better scope of these things.

We know that china lied and keeps lying. We know the death tolls in other countries. We can observe ratios and statistics from those other countries and determine the longevity of this thing better then we could have years ago. 

this is why when here for example the uk lockdown has been extended to a further 3 weeks, why anyone would have been surprised by this is just weird. Of course it is going to be extended, because we have no vaccine, the virus might not have even reached its peak yet, and given how long its been in circulation in other countries the belief that this will end and everything will be safe and back to normal in a couple months is just ludicrous.

GB is 18 days behind the US.  In the past, we had few info sources, but they were trusted (without justification).  Now we have many info sources, but they are not trusted (with justification).

[Mr.Obvious]

GF cut my hair yesterday, because the hairdressers are closed due to corona.

She did it surprisingly well, especially for her first time.

[Baruch]

GF cut my hair yesterday, because the hairdressers are closed due to corona.

She did it surprisingly well, especially for her first time.

My daughter cut mine a month ago.  Her first time.  So how is Belgium, the center of the per-million Covid death rate?  San Marino and Andorra are still ahead.  But Belgium is ahead of Spain, Italy, France and UK ... twice as high as Netherlands, four times as high as Luxembourg.  Hope things get better for you.

[GSOgymrat]

I think Beau has a very good point that politicians can say the economy is reopened but it won't actually reopen until consumers have confidence. I currently do not have confidence. I am not getting on a crowded airplane. I'm not going to a hotel where I am riding in an elevator six inches from other people. I'm also not going to be spending money on luxuries, like dining out, because jobs are in jeopardy, investments have tanked and the economic outlook is bleak. When consumers, like me, don't spend money, people lose their jobs and when people use their jobs, they don't have money to spend. It's a downward spiral. There is no returning to business as usual until this pandemic is under control.

https://youtu.be/Hhf9ktqzxgY

[Baruch]

I think Beau has a very good point that politicians can say the economy is reopened but it won't actually reopen until consumers have confidence. I currently do not have confidence. I am not getting on a crowded airplane. I'm not going to a hotel where I am riding in an elevator six inches from other people. I'm also not going to be spending money on luxuries, like dining out, because jobs are in jeopardy, investments have tanked and the economic outlook is bleak. When consumers, like me, don't spend money, people lose their jobs and when people use their jobs, they don't have money to spend. It's a downward spiral. There is no returning to business as usual until this pandemic is under control.

https://youtu.be/Hhf9ktqzxgY

True.  It will take a longer time to put the dominoes back up, than it took to knock them down.  Social distancing will continue.  The wearing of masks when sick, in Asia, started because of the Spanish Flu.  They didn't forget, we did.  Until most people have gone back to work, confidence will be weak.  Unfortunately some small businesses will have shut down permanently, just to get out of the business loans they didn't want to pay back.  So not all businesses will restart.  Automobile sales and air travel industry will stay weak.  Hotels will partly recover as car travel opens up.  There are too many used cars around, and people will be afraid of tight travel arrangements.  For a short while, our in-dining was "social distance modified" .. but that is fine for me if that resumes, I can modify when I go to restaurants, to avoid crowding caused by occupation limitations.  McDonalds will get less of my business.  Grocery store restrictions and general pharmacy store restrictions will continue.  No more than one TP/paper towel/tissue for you!

[Baruch]

"COVID-19 Is A Man-Made Virus: HIV-Discoverer Says "Could Only Have Been Created In A Lab"" ... trust all doctors?  He is repeating what an Indian virology lab claimed early on.

"Ford Tests Buzzing Wristbands To Keep Workers Six Feet Apart" ... What?  No neck shock devices?  Covid Macht Frei.

"Wholesale Gasoline Hits 12 Cents A Gallon In Midwest" ... yes, in the US and Europe, most of petrol costs are taxes.  We don't get to buy petrol at wholesale.

"CNN POSTS FAKE NEWS ABOUT ELON MUSK, MUSK SHOWS UP PROVES ITS FAKE NEWS, BRING RECEIPTS" ... over claim that Musk provide ventilators to California.  CNN part of the CCP.

PS ...

Past is prologue ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

Like the Spanish Flu, the Hong Kong Flu was propagated by troop movements.  If we are half done with Covid in the US, then the total deaths will be 71,000, less than the Hong Kong Flu.  Covid may have been more dangerous (level 4) than Hong Kong (level 2), but our public heath reaction is better now than 50 years ago.

[Mr.Obvious]

My daughter cut mine a month ago.  Her first time.  So how is Belgium, the center of the per-million Covid death rate?  San Marino and Andorra are still ahead.  But Belgium is ahead of Spain, Italy, France and UK ... twice as high as Netherlands, four times as high as Luxembourg.  Hope things get better for you.

Well the thing is that it's not because our hospitals are flooded. We have enough room, I'm told.
But before corona, our population of 80+ year Olds was already amongst the highest, relatively, so maybe that's why?
Numbers seem to be dropping too.
Maybe because we're such a small and packed country, it spread and spiked faster? We've also been implementing more tests, so could be due to that, I don't know. With a smaller population, higher scores are also more easily attained.
I don't feel unsafe, as I am. Thanks for asking. I'm just worried I might infect others.

Hope you do well too.

[Munch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0IOQ9oLpjA

So this guy brought around 150 large packs of toilet rolls, and wanted a refund after.

I think its being said his ebay account was banned after it was found out he was inflating the cost of toilet rolls, and when he could no longer sell it online he tried to get a refund.

Good on the manager for standing his ground and telling him to fuck off.