Hi

[Arik]

Well, Shiva is one of the principal deities of Hinduism.  That's a fact.  Claiming that a deity has nothing to do with religion seems be quite the dubious claim.  I'm tempted to yet again call it lying, but I'm starting to think your knowledge of both religion and science is so poor that you might actually believe what you're saying.

I know very well that ......................Shiva is one of the principal deities of Hinduism..........I never said the contrary Hydra.

That however does not means that Hinduism follow what Shiva was preaching.
As I already said in previous posts Hinduism goes against Shiva principles.
Shiva teach yoga.
Today only an handful of Hindus practice it.
Shiva was against the caste system while for Hinduism is one of the pillar of their religion.
Shiva teach to be vegetarian.
Most of Hindus these days are not vegetarians.

Shiva never said that cows are sacred or holy but for Hindus is the opposite.
Shiva never said that to bath in the Ganges river you can purify yourself.
Shiva never said that women need to be reincarnate as man in order to achieve liberation as most Hindus say.

So Hindus may well take Shiva as their God but as far you do the opposite of what Shiva was teaching it all show that Hinduism and Shiva have nothing in common.   

This show how you know little about Shiva and Hinduism.

[Arik]

Clearly you have the universe figured out.  You refuse to take what I write into account on any level--in other words, you are willfully blind.  All I can do is to wish you luck on your journey.

Are you saying that anyone who does not listen to you is blind.

Are you serious Mike?

I am always prepared to listen to anyone and prepared to change my mind AS FAR AS WHAT PEOPLE SAY MAKE SENSE.

[Baruch]

Arik - there are different kinds of yoga.  In the East, if you met a new person, you asked ... "What is your practice?".  Let's talk yoga.

Yoga of action (Krishna) aka Karma Yoga
Yoga of concentration (Shiva, Patanjali) aka Raja Yoga
Yoga of devotion (Krishna) aka Bhakti Yoga
Yoga of knowledge aka Jnana Yoga
Yoga of physical discipline aka Hatha Yoga

And numerous combinations of the above ...
Yogachara - Mahayana Buddhist
Sankhya - theoretical side of School of Yoga, two of the six orthodox forms of Hinduism
Asparsha Yoga - Gaudapada
Shiva Yoga - combines concentration and devotion (to Shiva as guru or god)

Tantric forms:
Mantra Yoga - magical
Kundalini Yoga - chakras
Laya Yoga - related to Kundalini, emphasis on male-female duality and Hatha Yoga
Integral Yoga - personal transformation

Atheist saivism involves Shiva Yoga, but with Shiva as guru, not deity.

Once we have a framework for discussion, we can discuss specific practices if you like.

[Mike Cl]

Are you saying that anyone who does not listen to you is blind.

Are you serious Mike?

I am always prepared to listen to anyone and prepared to change my mind AS FAR AS WHAT PEOPLE SAY MAKE SENSE.

I am serious.  I am clearly and plainly saying that you do not take anything I have said seriously or try to understand what I am saying.  I am saying you are blind.  You say you are willing to listen but don't.  I do understand what you are saying.  It is little different than any other theist.  And you are so invested in your being right that you don't even want to listen to anyone who disagrees with your belief.  I have read your holy book and studied how it came about and how it was complied.  You haven't.   You are simply willfully ignorant to the point of appearing to be stupid.  You are a closed mind of the worst sort--the religious/spiritual mind.  Your universe is based upon magic--mine isn't.  But you are free to believe any way you want.  Just stop lying about it.

[Baruch]

I am serious.  I am clearly and plainly saying that you do not take anything I have said seriously or try to understand what I am saying.  I am saying you are blind.  You say you are willing to listen but don't.  I do understand what you are saying.  It is little different than any other theist.  And you are so invested in your being right that you don't even want to listen to anyone who disagrees with your belief.  I have read your holy book and studied how it came about and how it was complied.  You haven't.   You are simply willfully ignorant to the point of appearing to be stupid.  You are a closed mind of the worst sort--the religious/spiritual mind.  Your universe is based upon magic--mine isn't.  But you are free to believe any way you want.  Just stop lying about it.

Ahem ... which holy book?  The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali?  Which books of Saivism have you studied?

[Cavebear]

I love it when religious nonsensicals appear briefly, state their strangest idea, and disappear after a few months.  This one will too.

But I have to admit that this one is weirder than the usual religious nut case.  He seems to even disagree with what seems to be his basic religion.

If I didn't think that most and any theists were the greatest threat to the continued existence of humanity, I would actually feel sorry for this sap.  I mean, he is opposing his cultural beliefs and can't EVEN get any comfort here because he is as nuts as the religious idiots he seems to oppose.

[Arik]

I love it when religious nonsensicals appear briefly, state their strangest idea, and disappear after a few months.  This one will too.

But I have to admit that this one is weirder than the usual religious nut case.  He seems to even disagree with what seems to be his basic religion.

If I didn't think that most and any theists were the greatest threat to the continued existence of humanity, I would actually feel sorry for this sap.  I mean, he is opposing his cultural beliefs and can't EVEN get any comfort here because he is as nuts as the religious idiots he seems to oppose.

Well, well mate.

It remind me when Jesus try to kick the priests out from around the temple.
Even in that occasion some people said that this Jesus disagree with what seems to be his basic religion.

As far as corruption build up and take the roots then you got to stand up and try to stop it.

Oh, by the way don't you like that someone that doesn't necessary agree with you is here?
Wouldn't you find boring to talk to people that agree with you all the time?

Have a lovely day anyway.

[Arik]

I am serious.  I am clearly and plainly saying that you do not take anything I have said seriously or try to understand what I am saying.  I am saying you are blind.  You say you are willing to listen but don't.  I do understand what you are saying.  It is little different than any other theist.  And you are so invested in your being right that you don't even want to listen to anyone who disagrees with your belief.  I have read your holy book and studied how it came about and how it was complied.  You haven't.   You are simply willfully ignorant to the point of appearing to be stupid.  You are a closed mind of the worst sort--the religious/spiritual mind.  Your universe is based upon magic--mine isn't.  But you are free to believe any way you want.  Just stop lying about it.

Look Mike do me a favor.

Tell me about some of the issues that according to you I didn't take any notice of so I can look at them again.
Maybe I was wrong who knows.
Unless you tell me what you are talking about I wouldn't know.
Thanks.

[Arik]

Arik - there are different kinds of yoga.  In the East, if you met a new person, you asked ... "What is your practice?".  Let's talk yoga.

Yoga of action (Krishna) aka Karma Yoga
Yoga of concentration (Shiva, Patanjali) aka Raja Yoga
Yoga of devotion (Krishna) aka Bhakti Yoga
Yoga of knowledge aka Jnana Yoga
Yoga of physical discipline aka Hatha Yoga

And numerous combinations of the above ...
Yogachara - Mahayana Buddhist
Sankhya - theoretical side of School of Yoga, two of the six orthodox forms of Hinduism
Asparsha Yoga - Gaudapada
Shiva Yoga - combines concentration and devotion (to Shiva as guru or god)

Tantric forms:
Mantra Yoga - magical
Kundalini Yoga - chakras
Laya Yoga - related to Kundalini, emphasis on male-female duality and Hatha Yoga
Integral Yoga - personal transformation

Atheist saivism involves Shiva Yoga, but with Shiva as guru, not deity.

Once we have a framework for discussion, we can discuss specific practices if you like.

The options are endless Baruch.

You can try them all one by one until you find the right one or you can try one and stick with that or do as I did.

I realized that God can read my and everybody mind so I ask within that He show me the correct method to uplift myself spiritually speaking.

It didn't take long time to get across the type of yoga that now I follow.
Let me however clear something Baruch.
Yoga is a very good way but not all yoga is because a lot of rubbish that pretend to be yoga is now all around.

Yoga is not necessary the method for all.
People are different so a different method must be there for different people.
Some people learn in different ways.
Some people have an NDE that show them how the system works other people learn as they go year after year or life after life even atheists learn in their own way.
First rely on physical science then after sometime when they realize that this way lead to nowhere they surely will look in the proper direction.

Energy and consciousness that are the two side of the same sheet never die so at the end everybody will get there.

[Cavebear]

Well, well mate.

It remind me when Jesus try to kick the priests out from around the temple.
Even in that occasion some people said that this Jesus disagree with what seems to be his basic religion.

As far as corruption build up and take the roots then you got to stand up and try to stop it.

Oh, by the way don't you like that someone that doesn't necessary agree with you is here?
Wouldn't you find boring to talk to people that agree with you all the time?

Have a lovely day anyway.

You say "Jesus tr(ied) to kick the priests out from around the temple".

Were you there?

[Unbeliever]

It remind me when Jesus try to kick the priests out from around the temple.
Even in that occasion some people said that this Jesus disagree with what seems to be his basic religion.

Jesus never existed, so this story is entirely fictional. So what good is it in furthering whatever you're arguing for?

[Cavebear]

Jesus never existed, so this story is entirely fictional. So what good is it in furthering whatever you're arguing for?

Well stated and concise.  So much of the biblical tales (and other theistic stories) are both contradictory and obviously inaccurate.

[Mike Cl]

Look Mike do me a favor.

Tell me about some of the issues that according to you I didn't take any notice of so I can look at them again.
Maybe I was wrong who knows.
Unless you tell me what you are talking about I wouldn't know.
Thanks.

How about some evidence for god--any god.  BTW, Jesus is a myth and a fiction, as well as any of your gods. 

[aitm]

The kid started doing yoga couple year ago, has had some success though so he thought, "hey, if I buy the whole fruit cake I can be even better"...not much diff than a born again alchy.

All in all....meh.

[Cavebear]

The kid started doing yoga couple year ago, has had some success though so he thought, "hey, if I buy the whole fruit cake I can be even better"...not much diff than a born again alchy.

All in all....meh.

The new generation will be "different" and that all *I* know...