$153,000 For a Rattlesnake Bite

Started by Shiranu, May 23, 2018, 12:09:41 AM

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Shiranu

The current medical bill photo going around...





I can attest to the cost of this shit... for a quick scan of my head + an ambulance ride when I passed out while driving last year set me back about $15,000 in debt. (just to be told they couldn't find anything wrong). When I broke my wrist and needed staples in the back of my head? Another $10,000. Shit, just kidney stones cost me about $4k.

Like, there is a reason I don't have insurance... I can't afford it. So the logical solution must therefore be if I, or most people my age, get sick... we should just be forced into crippling debt. Which we are already in anyways, hence why we can't pay for insurance....

When my dad had cancer, we thankfully had it paid for by the gov't, because his bills were over $750,000 for treatment that made him worse and a hospice that mistreated him.


And then there is always this...





$40 to hold your baby after birth.

What a joke.



"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/rattlesnake-selfie-results-in-a-153k-medical-bill/

This article gives the main reason; the manufacturer charges $2500 a vial for anti-venom and then that gets marked up for consumers and insurance.

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Hydra009

Is it too early to talk about universal healthcare?  (Or too late?)

Jason78

In the UK you wouldn't get a bill.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Shiranu on May 23, 2018, 12:09:41 AM



And then there is always this...





$40 to hold your baby after birth.

What a joke.




It's called "unbundling". Google is your friend. The last fifteen days have cost an average of $10,000 each for me.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Baruch

#5
Quote from: Jason78 on May 23, 2018, 02:31:34 AM
In the UK you wouldn't get a bill.

No, in the UK you get another royal wedding.  The marriage of Prince William (earlier) cost $250 million I hear.

And UK doesn't pay the full bill for defense from the Soviet Union/Russia.  Just saying.

Yes, say half of the DoD bill could be redirected, but then the US foreign policy has to change.

But for the US foreign policy to change, we have to not be dependent on ME petroleum etc.

And for that to happen, Americans need to stop driving cars.

Meanwhile back in military medicine ... what you can charge depends on your connections ...

Our team faced a network problem that was preventing admin capability necessary to facilitate the weekly backup of patient records.  We got paid for our time, the same as always ... we weren't able to hold the patients for ransom ;-)  The problem got understood and resolved.  You can say thanks now ... that we didn't charge $150,000 for this occasional service, particularly since we were under time pressure to get it done by yesterday.

BTW ... 8 years ago I had a series of kidney stone interventions that cost $100,000 ... fortunately I had insurance.  Otherwise I would have died in agony.  How much will you pay, or have someone else pay (socialism) to avoid that?  There is no free lunch, but we can reallocate expenditures in a more humane way.  In effect, health insurance is a broken kind of socialism ... someone else is paying.  We are a mixed economy over here, that some benefit from more than others (socialist doesn't equal equalitarian).  And no, ACA wasn't a good answer, it was another broken system proposed by crooks.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on May 23, 2018, 12:15:44 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/rattlesnake-selfie-results-in-a-153k-medical-bill/

This article gives the main reason; the manufacturer charges $2500 a vial for anti-venom and then that gets marked up for consumers and insurance.

Word to the wise, the old rattlesnake bite kits don't work (but they were cheap).  Just get to doctor ASAP.  My farming relatives would carry a big stick to deal with a rattler while working, not a camera.  Don't earn a Darwin Award.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Quote from: Shiranu on May 23, 2018, 12:15:44 AM
This article gives the main reason; the manufacturer charges $2500 a vial for anti-venom and then that gets marked up for consumers and insurance.
Part of the reason it's so expensive is because of insurance.  When people have insurance, they don't care that much about what things cost.  So they get a bill for $45,000, and think, "Oh my, it's a good thing I have insurance," and they feel better.  The insurance company deals with it by charging more for insurance, happy to have the excuse that medical costs are going through the roof. 

But insurance companies don't pay the amount on the bill, because insurance companies have worked out agreements with hospitals to pay less than the amount.  People without insurance, the ones who can't afford it, are required to pay something like 25% more than what the insurance company pays, because they haven't worked out volume discounts for 90% of the bills that everyone else receives.

So it's not just the hospitals and pharmacies that overcharge.  They work hand in glove with insurance companies to make sure that together, they get more of your money.  And they do it because people don't care, hospitals don't care, and insurance companies don't care how much it costs.

Will universal coverage fix this?  Well, maybe yes and maybe no.  It depends on whether people and the people's representatives in government care.  The government has the power to tell hospitals and pharmacies to quit the bullshit, which you don't, and the government can regulate providers into charging realistic prices.  For example, $35 for a toothbrush is not a realistic price, even though health providers charge it all the time. By comparing prices of items available in stores with provider prices, we can calculate how ridiculously absurd providers jack prices up, which looks like it could be 10 times what the service is worth.  But will the government bother to regulate providers? 

That depends on what people demand of politicians and whether they will accept how much money providers give politicians to ignore their scam.  This weighs heavily on fairness in healthcare.  Simply put, there's more profit to be made if the process is kept unfair.  If the government is going to provide universal coverage, they have to be willing to regulate providers.  Otherwise universal coverage will indeed become something more than what tax payers can reasonably afford.

But you can bet your boots that our representatives have the power to make sure its done fairly and can bring the prices down to affordable levels that can only be achieved by universal coverage fairly applied, for much less than the current system.  They have the power, but they may not use it if there is nothing in it for them personally.

Jason78

Quote from: Baruch on May 23, 2018, 06:08:33 AM
No, in the UK you get another royal wedding.  The marriage of Prince William (earlier) cost $250 million I hear.

And UK doesn't pay the full bill for defense from the Soviet Union/Russia.  Just saying.

Yes, say half of the DoD bill could be redirected, but then the US foreign policy has to change.

But for the US foreign policy to change, we have to not be dependent on ME petroleum etc.

And for that to happen, Americans need to stop driving cars.

Meanwhile back in military medicine ... what you can charge depends on your connections ...

Our team faced a network problem that was preventing admin capability necessary to facilitate the weekly backup of patient records.  We got paid for our time, the same as always ... we weren't able to hold the patients for ransom ;-)  The problem got understood and resolved.  You can say thanks now ... that we didn't charge $150,000 for this occasional service, particularly since we were under time pressure to get it done by yesterday.

BTW ... 8 years ago I had a series of kidney stone interventions that cost $100,000 ... fortunately I had insurance.  Otherwise I would have died in agony.  How much will you pay, or have someone else pay (socialism) to avoid that?  There is no free lunch, but we can reallocate expenditures in a more humane way.  In effect, health insurance is a broken kind of socialism ... someone else is paying.  We are a mixed economy over here, that some benefit from more than others (socialist doesn't equal equalitarian).  And no, ACA wasn't a good answer, it was another broken system proposed by crooks.

And if you had a royal family you could have one too.  The UK also regularly escorts the russian airforce out of our airspace.  And just for the record, you don't pay the full bill either.  If you want to pay the full bill, I'm sure we'd welcome the money.

Not everyone that has a problem can afford to have it treated.

Would you rather your taxes paid welfare for someone that can't afford treatment and can't work or would you rather get them fit and healthy and working so they can pay taxes to reduce the overall tax bill?

Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Baruch

Quote from: Jason78 on May 23, 2018, 12:52:33 PM
And if you had a royal family you could have one too.  The UK also regularly escorts the russian airforce out of our airspace.  And just for the record, you don't pay the full bill either.  If you want to pay the full bill, I'm sure we'd welcome the money.

Not everyone that has a problem can afford to have it treated.

Would you rather your taxes paid welfare for someone that can't afford treatment and can't work or would you rather get them fit and healthy and working so they can pay taxes to reduce the overall tax bill?

US DoD equals sum of next seven powers ... seven.  Not that I think GB isn't an ally.  But who are they allied to?  The D-party, the CIA?

Yes, unfortunately people get sick and injured.  If you are sufficiently sick of injured, you are going to be out of work (unless some welfare program or workman's comp program will cover you).  i would prefer to have an honest tax system, instead of an insane and partisan one.  And yes, I would be happy to have half the Federal budget go to help pay actually needy people's medical needs.  I would be overjoyed.  My daughter is handicapped, she already gets some support that way.  Why not all those in dire need?  But to do that, you have to cut elsewhere.  And there are consequences to that.  DoD and Senior care are the biggest items, they would have to be cut to pay for medical needs (and of course most Senior care already goes for medical needs).  That pretty much leaves the DoD.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason78

Quote from: Baruch on May 23, 2018, 01:14:50 PM
Why not all those in dire need?  But to do that, you have to cut elsewhere.  And there are consequences to that. 

You don't get it do you?  Not just those in dire need.  You give medical treatment to everybody, even for the little things.  This then lowers the burden for everyone.

For example, you can treat a handful of people for a harmful contagious disease and cure them for a small cost.  Or you can let that disease run rampant through hundreds, even thousands of people in a population where most can't afford to get the appropriate medical treatment for a huge cost.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Baruch

Quote from: Jason78 on May 23, 2018, 01:44:49 PM
You don't get it do you?  Not just those in dire need.  You give medical treatment to everybody, even for the little things.  This then lowers the burden for everyone.

For example, you can treat a handful of people for a harmful contagious disease and cure them for a small cost.  Or you can let that disease run rampant through hundreds, even thousands of people in a population where most can't afford to get the appropriate medical treatment for a huge cost.

We could lower the burden, by having a much smaller population.  We could achieve that non-violently by prohibiting pro-creation for most people.

But as far as "entitlements" go ... nobody is owned any of that.  Not services, not money, not voting rights ...

Unfortunately the most effective way to reduce unnecessary medical expenditures is eating right, exercise, no drugs, no alcohol, no weed, no tobacco.  And people can choose that on their own.  They don't need a political party.  No jobs for Commissar of Aerobics.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Draconic Aiur

You could just ignore it or sue them

Baruch

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on May 23, 2018, 05:24:06 PM
You could just ignore it or sue them

A lawsuit requires money (either up front or as a result of a favorable judgement).  Ignoring a bill results in them suing you.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Draconic Aiur

Quote from: Baruch on May 23, 2018, 06:42:27 PM
A lawsuit requires money (either up front or as a result of a favorable judgement).  Ignoring a bill results in them suing you.

hospital has yet to sue me for a bandaid costing 600 dollars