FOX News Defends Trump's Defense of Nazis/White Supremacists/Bigotry

[Baruch]

Yeah, its that "G-d" I have to smile at.  Its just "English" man, not even the original language...

Orthodox Jews can't even say G-d.  They use HaShem "new style" or Adonai "old style".  This dates back to the Pharaohs, when you put a cartouche around the name of the Pharaoh to protect it from magic emanating from the other words on the inscription or papyrus.

In Old English, good = god.

[Cavebear]

Orthodox Jews can't even say G-d.  They use HaShem "new style" or Adonai "old style".  This dates back to the Pharaohs, when you put a cartouche around the name of the Pharaoh to protect it from magic emanating from the other words on the inscription or papyrus.

In Old English, good = god.

Gosh, Gee, Golly, and Zounds, far be it for me to use sensitive religious euphamisms. 

And on that note, I think I better feed the cats and make myself dinner (2nd time in 3 days man, its a bad habit!").  Til next time......

[Baruch]

Gosh, Gee, Golly, and Zounds, far be it for me to use sensitive religious euphamisms. 

And on that note, I think I better feed the cats and make myself dinner (2nd time in 3 days man, its a bad habit!").  Til next time......

Huzzah, thine spelling smells "euphemisms" of the village cess pit.

[Drew_2017]

I've answered that question long ago.  Nothing wrong with those suggestions.  Not a thing.  And I would suggest most societies have developed rules along those lines.  And theism is not needed for any of those guidelines to have developed. 

I agree theism isn't necessary but the thought humans are special and entitled by birth to such rights is false if we owe our existence to mindless mechanistic forces that didn't intend humans or the universe to exist. We can all just agree with a wink and a nod such rights exist but we know we're just making it up out of thin air. The best fellow humans can do is grant us privileges which can be changed or revoked at any time. 

The only demand I have upon the Declaration is that it be followed.  Unalienable or inalienable does not pertain to god-given, but to something that is part and parcel of being human.  And creator does not necessarily mean god or higher power.  An aspect of the Declaration of Independence that is seldom thought of--the purpose of the document was to declare the colonies independence from England.  The first 1/4 of the declaration was probably not thought of as being the most important part. 

You're juxtaposing your belief upon the text. Endowed (still means the same today) is property or rights given by someone in this case at the moment of birth.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â€" That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

For these rights to be unalienable the author attaches them to their Creator. The government doesn't give us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness the government is empowered to secure those rights. There is no dispute about what Jefferson meant. I agree its not intended to be religious, belief in the existence of a Creator is theistic not religious.   

[Baruch]

Per secularism we are supposed to put on our perukes and understand the universal natural law of John Locke et al.  But we are realizing now, how the Enlightenment was complete bullshit, if we have subsequently adopted David Hume as our guiding light.  As as skeptic, Hume would have told you the notion of natural law (and natural rights) are bogus.  What Jefferson et al was doing, was trying to avoid an immediate dispute over an establishment of religion (each colony had a favorite church).  So mentioning a generic God (not G-d) was a way of doing this acceptably in 1776.  But those conditions don't apply now.  In a skeptical, secular, materialistic age, the whole basis of the American Revolution and the Constitution are .... meaningless.  But post-Christian society continues to play Christian dress-up.  The whole idea of the US is evaporating as a meme past its sell by date ... same as the Soviet Union was in 1991.

[randomvim]

A tool used by psychology experts for defining and diagnosing psychological disorders, the DSM-5, does not use clear-cut definitions because one person with a disorder may have completely different symptoms from another with the same disorder. I think a similar way of defining the word "cult" would be useful. So here's some characteristics of cults that I can think of:

A. Demands full focus of the members, to a degree of unhealthy obsession with the group's goals.

B. Members are made to separate themselves socially and/or physically from friends and family, often to live on a property owned by the organization.

C. Members are thoroughly brainwashed into thinking and behaving according to the religion's doctrine. Disagreement with any aspect of the doctrine is not tolerated.

D. Members may be held against their will at the organization's discretion.

E. Those who want to leave the organization are threatened with extreme punishments. Some may be harrassed by other members if they succeed to get away.

F. Members suffer physical and emotional harm. In extreme cases, members may even be killed or commit suicide at the command of the organization's leadership.

Edit: Forgot a big one:

G. Members are required to give a large sum of money, or sacrifice valuable possessions, to the organization.

I do not consider age, size, or "weirdness" of a group's beliefs to be relevant, because all religions were new at some point. Every religion has beliefs that could have been considered weird when it was getting started. Eating flesh and drinking blood, as Jesus asked believers to do, would definitely be something weird to someone who'd never heard it before.

Interesting concept. I like your effort and the descriptions you have.

B and C describes a cult well. many cults I have studied often have locations seperate feom community 

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[Mike Cl]

Interesting concept. I like your effort and the descriptions you have.

B and C describes a cult well. many cults I have studied often have locations seperate feom community 

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B and C fit a nunnery or a monastery of several religions--or cults.

[Baruch]

B and C fit a nunnery or a monastery of several religions--or cults.

What if people voluntarily join a group that you disapprove of .. what then?  Not saying it is smart ... but if being stupid is against that law, the jails will be very full.

[Mike Cl]

What if people voluntarily join a group that you disapprove of .. what then?  Not saying it is smart ... but if being stupid is against that law, the jails will be very full.

My sole point will be--and is--it is impossible to designate exactly what a cult is.  It really is in the eye of the beholder.

[Baruch]

My sole point will be--and is--it is impossible to designate exactly what a cult is.  It really is in the eye of the beholder.

The only beholder that counts, for cult or terrorist cell, is the government.  Similarly peyote usage by Natives.

[Mike Cl]

The only beholder that counts, for cult or terrorist cell, is the government.  Similarly peyote usage by Natives.

No.  The only beholder that counts is me. 

[Baruch]

No.  The only beholder that counts is me.

So you retired from Sesame Street?  One year ago, two year ago ...

[Mike Cl]

So you retired from Sesame Street?  One year ago, two year ago ...

That would be The Count.  I haven't retired yet.  Yeah Oscar!

[Blackleaf]

B and C fit a nunnery or a monastery of several religions--or cults.

That's another funny thing about the DSM. Many disorders share a few of the same symptoms. People with major depressive disorder, for instance, may have hallucinations, just like someone with schizophrenia. You have to look at the bigger picture to determine what disorder best fits the symptoms. There are some groups that may tow the line, but most I think are pretty clear cut.

[randomvim]

B and C fit a nunnery or a monastery of several religions--or cults.

Call it a difference in experience.

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