EARTH vs. ISLAM

[Fidel_Castronaut]

These are not extremist views but the mainstream of Islamic thought...

Funny, I have never met a Muslim out-side of the internet who professes this; infact most I know would consider this "un-Islamic" and painting a bad picture of your average Muslim (in the West). I must just live in an area of non-mainstream Muslims...

If perhaps you live in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or Iraq... okay, maybe. But in the west, the people who do profess this are the minority, not the mainstream.

One of my Muslim friends who I've known for years from school said on FB to me the other day that he thought the elimination of secularism in Turkey was a good thing becuase it showed the majoirty wanted Sharia.

He's always been a 'moderate' in my eyes and has never once said anything that has caused me to doubt it, until he said that. It was just an off the cuff remark that caused me to re-evaluate everything I've ever thought about him. Of course just anecdotal, but looking back through his FB debates with others, I notice that most if not all of this Muslim friends that comment on them agree with the Islamification [sic] of the societies that they talk about, as though it's a good thing. Of course from their perspective I guess it is, but it's the complete lack of empathy, and the desire to dominate wills through religious reasoning which really sounds alarm bells in my head.

Again, just anecdote, but I'm starting to think that moderate thought in Islam is a lot different to moderate thought in other elements of society, be they religious or political.

[_Xenu_]

Has the internet run out of damning information about islam? :D

While there's admittedly quite a bit, Islam existed long before the Internet had a chance to get established. Scientology won't get that chance. Besides, Islam was actually kind of progressive for its time, it just hasn't evolved much since.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Has the internet run out of damning information about islam? :D

While there's admittedly quite a bit, Islam existed long before the Internet had a chance to get established. Scientology won't get that chance. Besides, Islam was actually kind of progressive for its time.

Just a shame that its time was centuries ago and it's still stuck there.

[Jason78]

Just a shame that its time was centuries ago and it's still stuck there.

According to my fundie muslim friend, Islam was around from the dawn of time.

[stromboli]

As PR has pointed out here on several occasions, the Islamic faith's political agenda and approach is built directly into the religion. Countries that are predominantly Muslim are under Sharia Law and politically very active against any other faith. The lack of such activity in countries not dominated by them is based entirely on numbers. Everywhere they have achieved sufficient numbers, they have tried to force their will on the populace. Even in Detroit, USA; they have tried to implement Sharia Law in neighborhoods they control. And these are the "good" Muslims, not the fundies. They have a growing presence all through Europe- Spain, Italy, France, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. And also in Southeast Asia, Australia- everywhere there is an influence there have been acts of violence and efforts to force their will on the populace.

Earth vs. Islam? I agree.

[stromboli]

If the thread title had been Earth vs Catholicism, Earth vs Christianity, Earth vs Buddhism or Earth vs Hinduism I would've agreed to that also. Islam is a religion. It is the most violent, most intrusive and most politically strident of any religion. It is the biggest problem in the world today. Sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth.

[Aletheia]

As PR has pointed out here on several occasions, the Islamic faith's political agenda and approach is built directly into the religion. Countries that are predominantly Muslim are under Sharia Law and politically very active against any other faith. The lack of such activity in countries not dominated by them is based entirely on numbers. Everywhere they have achieved sufficient numbers, they have tried to force their will on the populace. Even in Detroit, USA; they have tried to implement Sharia Law in neighborhoods they control. And these are the "good" Muslims, not the fundies. They have a growing presence all through Europe- Spain, Italy, France, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. And also in Southeast Asia, Australia- everywhere there is an influence there have been acts of violence and efforts to force their will on the populace.

Earth vs. Islam? I agree.

I would have to agree that there is quite a bit of evidence to show that Islam has the same behavioral patterns as an infection. True, other religions have the same desire to indoctrinate, perpetuate, and repeat protocol, but on the modern stage, Islam is perhaps one of the most aggressive.

There isn't a single thing any religion can provide that a secular society wouldn't be able to provide, excluding a grand delusion of course. This includes both the good and bad qualities. It's just that in a secular society, you'd have fewer people subjugated or killed in the name of imaginary beings. Furthermore, a secular society stands a much better chance of finding a use for science than a religious society would, since secularism generally doesn't fill in the gap with "[insert imaginary being] did it."

However, making the mistake that removing religion from the planet would suddenly cure all of humanity's problems is naive at best. We still have so many political machines in place that are just as detrimental - such as the perversion of communism, socialism, capitalism, monarchy, oligarchy... etc. When we no longer have motivation to fight about that which is imaginary, then we will fight about that which is real. For example, America is morbidly obese while much of Africa is starved for the basic necessities of life, nobody wants to deal with the fact that as a species we really need to regulate our population in line with what is available for consumption, still waiting on that new energy source - you know, one that doesn't result in the Earth being uninhabitable for humans, and what the hell happened to space exploration?

I think we can all agree, Islam is perhaps one of the worst religions to come to mind given current events, but aren't all religions essentially bad in that they stunt the growth of scientific advancements, civil rights, and genuine altruism?

[Aletheia]

If the thread title had been Earth vs Catholicism, Earth vs Christianity, Earth vs Buddhism or Earth vs Hinduism I would've agreed to that also. Islam is a religion. It is the most violent, most intrusive and most politically strident of any religion. It is the biggest problem in the world today. Sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth.

Islam combines politics with religion which is why it has to be included in BOTH religious and political topics. So, yes, Islam all by itself is a problem.

I'm not sorry that it offends anybody to make this perfectly clear. Quite frankly, in light of the aggressive nature of Islam, along with plenty of other politically based aggressive strategies for conquest, I don't think we have the luxury of rolling around in the political correctness just to keep from hurting someone's feelings. I doubt those subjugated by the tyranny of Islam give a damn about political correctness - particularly the women who have been mutilated because they didn't scream while they were being raped.

Enough is enough. Cry over something that is worth the tears - not over whether Islam or some political device is really to blame and being upset because people can't separate the two. You can't. That's the nature of Islam - it is a religiously based political device. Cry over those who are trapped in it.

[Aletheia]

What I am saying is that NOBODY is OUT to finish islam. Nobody even intends to fight against islam. This is what we can't agree on.

How exactly would you "fight" against Islam? We can kill Muslims by the droves - but that doesn't ensure the ideology dies with them.

The only way  to kill a religion is through education - challenging the very ideology with facts. Islam tries to take root in well-developed countries and it is here that it is shown to the world that it simply must change or it will have no place in advanced society.

Everybody is fighting Islam right now. The European countries are beginning to realize that Islam is anything but a religion of peace, and quite frankly, they seem to be growing tired of Islam's petulant ways. People are trying to encourage women's rights in the Middle East, and that is making quite the spectacle out of Sharia Law.

Yes, Islam has its apologists, but in order for them to appease the world, they are forced to have to defend Islam as being something it isn't. Given enough time, the religion of Islam will become a de-clawed kitten of its former self, much like the castration of the Christian religion in so many countries.

True, it's not happening fast enough, but dammit, Islam has a ton of followers, political processes have to work through the masses, and education tends to involve subsequent generations. Even I am a little concerned that things aren't moving fast enough to keep up with Islam's conversion rate.

[Shiranu]

It is the biggest problem in the world today. Sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth.

I would like to know who sold you that bag of shit so I could learn from a master... doesn't so much offend me as amuse me.

[josephpalazzo]

-The poor raped muslim women as if the rape culture is different in your country or anywhere else.

I'm not sure what was your point here. In the West, rape is a crime, and when you are caught doing it, you go to jail. OTOH, in Islamic countries, women who are raped and officially complained are often the ones sent to jail as being the ones who provoked.

[Shiranu]

-The poor raped muslim women as if the rape culture is different in your country or anywhere else.

I'm not sure what was your point here. In the West, rape is a crime, and when you are caught doing it, you go to jail. OTOH, in Islamic countries, women who are raped and officially complained are often the ones sent to jail as being the ones who provoked.

Unless you are in the military, in which case you get fired and stigmatized.  Or if you are in a place like Stubbenville, where they can't hold the people responsible to trial because football is more important.  Or...

Not saying women don't have it worse in Islamic cultures,  but here in the U.S. anyways we tend to treat rape victims,  women and expecially men,  like shit... going as far as to often blame the victim in public (if not the court). So I don't think i can consider ourselves far enough ahead of the Muslim world to judge them on that.

[josephpalazzo]

-The poor raped muslim women as if the rape culture is different in your country or anywhere else.

I'm not sure what was your point here. In the West, rape is a crime, and when you are caught doing it, you go to jail. OTOH, in Islamic countries, women who are raped and officially complained are often the ones sent to jail as being the ones who provoked.

Unless you are in the military, in which case you get fired and stigmatized.  Or if you are in a place like Stubbenville, where they can't hold the people responsible to trial because football is more important.  Or...

Not saying women don't have it worse in Islamic cultures,  but here in the U.S. anyways we tend to treat rape victims,  women and expecially men,  like shit... going as far as to often blame the victim in public (if not the court). So I don't think i can consider ourselves far enough ahead of the Muslim world to judge them on that.

The situation in the military has been horrible, but nonetheless when the five-star generals had to testify before Congress, they knew the cat was out of the hat, and things will not be allowed to continue as in the past. We don't have a perfect system, but the cry so far has been that in the words of one general, "When brave men and women volunteer to serve in our military, they know the risks involved. But sexual assault at the hands of a fellow service member should never be one of them."

Do we see that possibility of Islamic countries of being capable of such sweeping changes?

[Colanth]

But they didn't even do anything serious to assimilate them. they were that absent.

We do the same thing to assimilate Muslims, Shoe, that we did to assimilate Catholics, Jews, the Irish, the Italians, etc.  We give them the same rights and chances that we give everyone else.  It worked for the Catholics.  It worked for the Jews.  It worked for the Irish.  It worked for the Italians.  Why isn't it working for the Muslims?

[Shiranu]

But they didn't even do anything serious to assimilate them. they were that absent.

We do the same thing to assimilate Muslims, Shoe, that we did to assimilate Catholics, Jews, the Irish, the Italians, etc.  We give them the same rights and chances that we give everyone else.  It worked for the Catholics.  It worked for the Jews.  It worked for the Irish.  It worked for the Italians.  Why isn't it working for the Muslims?

What about the Chinese and other Asian cultures that have a hard time assimilating into cultures and following their rules? They can't even blame it on their religion.

All the "races" above were of the same culture, and the one that isn't has had problems assimilating into society as well (Hasidic Jews).