Goddidit Vs Naturedidit

[Drew_2017]

Sure thing, Sparky.  You rely on four facts (the remainder of your 6 "facts" are not facts at all just mere assertions) and then run them through some standard common logical fallacies and PRATTs, in a feeble and quite transparent attempt to pretend those facts are relevant to and probative of your illusory inquiry, all to come up with your "opinion".  Again, I observe that all you are doing is applying confirmation bias to an a priori conclusion.

You're not a very good chew toy.  Try harder.

"Hey look over there!"  What I rely on, if anything, is not relevant.

You rely on the faith claim its naturalistic forces all the way down...

[Drew_2017]

1.    The universe exists therefore God created it because [fill in the blank].
2.    Carbon-based life exists therefore God created it because [fill in the blank].
3.    Intelligent carbon-based life exists therefore God created it because [fill in the blank].
4.    The universe is ordered and understandable by that intelligent carbon-based life therefore God created both because [fill in the blank].
5.    Carbon-based life cannot exist everywhere in the universe therefore God was involved somehow because [fill in the blank].
6.    Intelligent carbon-based life has created computers which can do wonderful things therefore GOD created the intelligent carbon-based life because [fill in the blank].

Fine lets compare to naturalism.

1. The universe exists therefore natural unguided forces caused it because they decided to? No mindless forces can't decide to do something. Because they could? Maybe we'll just take that on faith.
2. Life exists because lifeless mindless forces without plan or intent inadvertently caused it by accident.
3. Sentient minds exist because lifeless mindless forces without plan or intent caused it to happen accidentally.
4.    The universe is ordered and understandable by intelligent carbon-based because one would expect unguided mindless forces to make themselves understandable to us and allow us to use formulas to engineer and design things.   
5 The fact there are several characteristics of the universe that fall within an extremely narrow range that not only allow life as we know it, but also allow the existence of planets, stars, solar systems and galaxies even though mindless naturalistic forces didn't give a rats ass if humans, stars or planets existed. Its better to be phenomenally lucky than to be intentionally designed.
6.   The fact that sentient beings cause virtual universes to exist which in effect is a working model of theism.

The naturalistic model of how the universe came into existence hasn't been created because no one can duplicate how such could happen or if it did happen. Its a faith model. One just has to believe and imagine it happened and then believe it without nary a doubt. Clicking red ruby shoes three times and saying its natural forces all the way down may help also.

[SGOS]

oh my...6 facts that favor theism....why....that's like 6 facts that favor orange pudding

...or jr high science fair projects.

[sdelsolray]

You rely on the faith claim its naturalistic forces all the way down...

Just not in any way you can demonstrate, Mr. "I Just Make Things Up".

[Baruch]

You rely on the faith claim its naturalistic forces all the way down...

Non-theistic claims aren't "faith" but plausible assumption.  Your claim however isn't a "faith" either, in the sense of Abrahamic scriptural mumbo jumbo.  It is metaphysical.  But these folks reject metaphysics too ... for empirical reasons.  Metaphysics can be rational or not, but it is never empirical.  My deism is empirical, because I don't interpret the facts the way others do (though I used to) ... but I do start from the same facts.  Speculative physics isn't factual BTW.  It is nearly the same as metaphysics.  Ohm's law of electricity is empirical, I can test it here and now.  Exactly how QFT worked in the first three minutes of the Big Bang ... is speculation.

[Hydra009]

You rely on the faith claim its naturalistic forces all the way down...

[sdelsolray]

Non-theistic claims aren't "faith" but plausible assumption. 
...

Some are, most are not.  The quantity of non-theistic claims based on reasonable inferences or actual deductions from relevant empirical evidence is more than you or I could count.  Of course, I am assuming your meaning of "non-theistic claim" is any claim not having to do with theism, such as (i) under x conditions hydrogen and oxygen will form water, (ii) the Earth is an oblate spheroid, or (iii) humans and chimpanzees have a common ancestor.

[Baruch]

Some are, most are not.  The quantity of non-theistic claims based on reasonable inferences or actual deductions from relevant empirical evidence is more than you or I could count.  Of course, I am assuming your meaning of "non-theistic claim" is any claim not having to do with theism, such as (i) under x conditions hydrogen and oxygen will form water, (ii) the Earth is an oblate spheroid, or (iii) humans and chimpanzees have a common ancestor.

And all three examples are demonstrated (the first two) or are reasonable inferences based on actual DNA examination.  Darwin couldn't examine DNA directly, we can.  He made a reasonable inference, based on current animals/plants in the Galapagos.  He didn't base it on particular theories of dinosaurs (none of which are currently living).

Some may think it a reasonable inference, to hypothesize what happened before the 3.5 K radiation ... but I don't buy it.  We simply don't know, and as best I can see, we will never know (physics has reasons why we can't see earlier).  Similarly, we can make reasonable inference regarding alien life forms on planets we haven't explored ... but I doubt we can ... though in that case, we may yet get empirical evidence.

[fencerider]

Faith is a funny thing. My brother-in-law has a phd in nuclear physics. Travels to all the reactors around the world to work on these experiments and still has enough faith to be a pastor and a teacher in a Bible college.

Just out of curiousity Drew, you have faith that the universe was created by a creator. What do you think happened to the creator after the creation? Did the creator use himself up in the creation? Did the creator die of old age or some other reason? Is the creator still around today? My own personal observation and experience lead me to believe that either god doesnt givaf or god isn't real.

I would compare the mental willpower for this thing called faith to the mental willpower necessary to create a fireball in the palm of my hand. As much as I would like to throw a fireball at some one and as much mental will power I put into creating a fireball in the palm of my hand, it never works. And as much mental willpower I try to put into these obtuse and many different explanations of this thing called faith, it never works either

[SGOS]

What do you think happened to the creator after the creation? Did the creator use himself up in the creation? Did the creator die of old age or some other reason? Is the creator still around today? My own personal observation and experience lead me to believe that either god doesnt givaf of god isn't real.

Creating a universe from nothing, big bang or not, is one spectacular mind blowing accomplishment, a demonstration of ultimate power greater than one can imagine. 

This is followed by a second act, where he walks around the Mideast, talking to key individuals while wearing various disguises.  During this time, he performs other miracles like parting oceans, bringing plagues and floods, and constantly giving instructions and sometimes aiding his chosen people, who were no less barbaric than the Philistines, and I hated the Philistines.  They were an ugly group of degenerates.  The second act was not as impressive as the first, but still a good show for bronze age audiences.

Act three, involves no creation or miracles.  In Act 3, he just hides.  I'm not impressed with Act 3.  He did a much better job in the Bronze Age.  Now an overpopulated Earth with more educated people owning televisions and the ability to broadcast live events is waiting and watching.  But he just hides.

I'm starting to wonder if any of that ancient stuff actually happened.

[aitm]

Creating a universe from nothing,...is one spectacular mind blowing accomplishment, a demonstration of ultimate power greater than one can imagine. 

and then he couldn't beat his enemies cause they had iron chariots...so....there's that. And it always took him three times to beat another army as well. Let 2/3rd or your troops get killed then using the last 1/3 wipe them out and celebrate a grand victory. Wow, with those kinds of winning percentages one has to wonder how bad he fucked up his first two tries on the universe eh?

[SGOS]

and then he couldn't beat his enemies cause they had iron chariots...so....there's that. And it always took him three times to beat another army as well. Let 2/3rd or your troops get killed then using the last 1/3 wipe them out and celebrate a grand victory. Wow, with those kinds of winning percentages one has to wonder how bad he fucked up his first two tries on the universe eh?

Well, creating a universe is no small task.  I takes a lot out of a guy.  You need time to regain your strength.  There were only 4000 years between creation and iron chariot era, so there may have been some long naps while the enemy was upgrading chariots.  Sometimes these things creep up on you, but being devastated and then making a victorious comeback makes for a good story.  An all powerful god, would by definition, be all powerfully dramatic.  So it's probably the way it happened, which is why it most likely wasn't naturalistic causes.

[Baruch]

When chariots first appeared ... we were still in the Bronze Age.  But they were terrifying ... the Egyptian mothers scared their children to sleep by mentioning the "mariannu".  Once things had moved into the Iron Age ... bronze weapons were obsolete (assuming you had any).  Also with the invention of the saddle (but no stirrups) warriors started riding on the horse's back ... more efficient use of horse flesh (usually chariots had two horses).  At that point chariots became prestige vehicles, like Rolls Royce .. they already were technically intense and expensive.  The early Israelites had no access to iron or iron weapons ... so this was a serious problem in any fight with the Philistines (who did).  But of course, unlike Zeus, Adonai mostly partied and didn't get involved ;-)

Make fun all you want ... when the Chinese come with their superior weapons, under what rock will you hide?

[SGOS]

when the Chinese come with their superior weapons, under what rock will you hide?

We won't be able to duck and cover, but we can still rock and roll.

[Baruch]

We won't be able to duck and cover, but we can still rock and roll.

Duck and cover would have never worked ... we aren't mallards.