what would be an actually good reason to believe in a god.

[Blackleaf]

Atheist authors have a agenda and are biased. Does it mean they to are making it all up. Or are they telling absolute truth.

As mentioned before, atheists are defined by their a lack of belief in gods, not by a belief that gods don't exist. So no, they do not have an agenda.

There are writings referencing Jesus outside his followers I have shared that already.

None that I've seen have been credible.

What would be acceptable from his followers who have seen him?

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of lifeâ€" the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to usâ€" that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Not this one, because it was written around 95â€"110 AD by unknown authors. It is traditionally believed to have been written by the same person who wrote the Gospel of John, but as I mentioned earlier, the book itself claims that it was collecting information about Jesus after he had already died. The author, if he was who he claimed to be, never saw Jesus. The source of his information was hearsay, from people who claimed to have seen Jesus. If Jesus died in 36 AD, there were at best 59 years in between Jesus' death and the writing of this verse. The average life expectancy in First Century Palestine was 29 years, meaning that it is highly unlikely that anyone could have found any genuine eyewitnesses of Jesus' miracles during that time.

“For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭ESV‬‬

For the Petrine epistles, although the books say they were written by the disciple Peter, they are widely believed to have two different authors. It is highly unlikely that a common fisherman could have been literate enough to write in Greek. And like all books of the New Testament, it is estimated to have been written long after Jesus' death, in the range of 60-112 AD. This, of course, means that the book was likely a forgery.

[Baruch]

"The Jews took him literally."  ... you know, you just offended the Holy Spirit, Kaleb ... so you can't be forgiven even by Jesus' the Jew.  The Gentile Church has been anti-semitic, and therefore damned ... since about 135 CE or earlier.  Certainly by 325 CE at the latest (when Constantine the Mafioso took it over).

[trdsf]

Atheist authors have a agenda and are biased. Does it mean they to are making it all up. Or are they telling absolute truth.

My only agendas when writing are to entertain when writing fiction, and to seek that which is demonstrable and repeatable and dependent on data and observation (hopefully still entertainingly) when not writing fiction.

And I will claim those agendas proudly.  My bias is for the reality of reality.

[Cavebear]

MY only purpose is to examine evidence.  And when it comes to religious texts and beliefs, there is none I can find.  There is no Jesus, or Allah, or Jehovah, Vishnu, Mithra, or Osiris.  All are equally unreal and idiotic to me.

Anyone is free to have a religion.  If you want to believe in superstitious nonsense, that is your business.  But when you try to inflict that nonsense on ME, that is MY business.  I will fight you on THAT!

So keep your bizarre beliefs to yourself.  Stop bothering the real world with them.

[fencerider]

wasnt even on the forum when this topic was started...

A good reason to believe in a god would be that someone could take you to the god's house and show it to you. Another good reason to believe in a god would be when you could make an appointment to meet.

Without either of these a rational person would have to consider one of the following statements to be true:
1 the god got bored with earth and went somewhere else
2 the god has never been to earth
3 the god got old and died already
4 the god never existed

Irrational people may still believe the god exists without proof. They may even get out some holy book as proof. Some may pull out a Bible, others a Quran, maybe the Book of Song, or the Mahab Harata. Each comes with its own unproven assertions.
...There are people older than 18yrs that still believe Santa Claus is real; without any evidence

[Munch]

wasnt even on the forum when this topic was started...

A good reason to believe in a god would be that someone could take you to the god's house and show it to you. Another good reason to believe in a god would be when you could make an appointment to meet.

Without either of these a rational person would have to consider one of the following statements to be true:
1 the god got bored with earth and went somewhere else
2 the god has never been to earth
3 the god got old and died already
4 the god never existed

Irrational people may still believe the god exists without proof. They may even get out some holy book as proof. Some may pull out a Bible, others a Quran, maybe the Book of Song, or the Mahab Harata. Each comes with its own unproven assertions.
...There are people older than 18yrs that still believe Santa Claus is real; without any evidence

Actually I've been to several cathedrals and churches myself. I admire good architecture, and didn't need a guide.

[Simon Moon]

I use the following definition for 'belief':

The psychological state in which one accepts a proposition or premise to be true.

The reason to accept a proposition or premise to be true, is to be convinced. The only good reasons to be convinced that a proposition or premise is true, is demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument.

One should always proportion the strength of their belief on the amount and quality of demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument available for the proposition or premise under question.

[widdershins]

There sure is a lot of blaming the atheist in this thread.  If we don't accept that voodoo is real it's not because there is anything wrong with the unsubstantiated fantastical claims of magic.  No, it's because we are so heavily biased against fantastical magical beliefs.  I mean, think about it.  If someone wants to sell you a house that they take you to and show you around in, THEN it's reasonable to ask them to prove that they outright own the house, there are no liens on it or judgements against it and that they have every right to sell it.  But when someone claims that if you just give them 10% of your money for the rest of your life and do everything they say then after you die, you'll live forever, well then it is COMPLETELY unreasonable to ask them for some evidence to that claim and of course only an incredibly biased person would ever ask for evidence for this completely ordinary claim.

It never ceases to amaze me how these people can twist their minds around so that, in their heads, we are being utterly unreasonable for asking for one shred of evidence for their fantastical claims of magic.  It just boggles the mind how someone can claim that after you die you'll live forever under ANY circumstance and simply expect people to just accept that as truth, ESPECIALLY when they want something from you in order to achieve this immortality after death, a concept which, itself, makes no fucking sense!

[Baruch]

The average Christian doesn't know much about Christianity.  The average Bible reader doesn't know much about the Bible.  Often former Christians do!  So Randy argues Church, and others argue Bible.  Unfortunately, what you accept as evidence depends on your definitions.  Suppose you have a wrong definition of what a dog is.  I bring a dog to you and claim that it is a dog.  You correctly, from your POV, say ... that isn't a dog.  The trick with propaganda, is to get you be define things in a way that is at variance with reality.  To put you deliberately into a false consciousness.  Even with out propaganda, the average person at age 20 is in a false consciousness anyway.  If they realize this, it may take another 20 years to escape their false consciousness, and be able to see reality at all.

So when I say, that my right hand, is proof of G-d ... that makes no sense, if you don't understand my words.  From your POV, you will naturally say ... that doesn't prove anything, let alone prove G-d.  And everyone likes to claim that they may have been in a false consciousness in the past, but they have escaped that, that they are in reality now ;-)  If your perception, was the same as my perception ... which I learned over 60 years of indoctrination and escape from indoctrination ... then you would say ... yes, Baruch, your right hand is proof of G-d ... and so is mine.  We can use the same language, even the same language ... and yet communication fails.  That is because truth isn't in the words, but in the person speaking and the other person hearing ... they are the truth, not any statements made.

[Unbeliever]

God reveals himself in many ways, through his creation, through his word and trough his son for example.

I thought "His Son" and "His Word" were supposed to be the same thing...

[Unbeliever]

Is it impossible for the Christian God to exist?

Yes, because the Christian God is a theistic God, and so cannot logically exist. The concept comes with too many incompatible properties, making it logically inconsistent.

[Unbeliever]

There is only one God and if it's not the God of the Bible it's not a God at all...

How do you know?

Your belief is based on wishful thinking, nothing more. You simply want the divine ideal to exist, and so you choose to believe that it does. Read your Bible if you're so enamored of the Christian God - you may find you don't like it as much as you currently think.

[Blackleaf]

How do you know?

Your belief is based on wishful thinking, nothing more. You simply want the divine ideal to exist, and so you choose to believe that it does. Read your Bible if you're so enamored of the Christian God - you may find you don't like it as much as you currently think.

Yeah. I wouldn't call the god of the Bible the "divine ideal." A god that kills millions and tortures the vast majority of people for an eternity in Hell simply for not stroking his ego, even including people who had never heard of him, is not the kind of Heavenly Father I would choose to worship and imitate.

[Baruch]

I thought "His Son" and "His Word" were supposed to be the same thing...

In this context, son and word are an oxymoron.  Not even theologians know what those words mean together, in this context.

[SGOS]

In this context, son and word are an oxymoron.  Not even theologians know what those words mean together, in this context.

Don't forget the light.  He is also the "light."

I don't know what the intentions of the ancient writers were.  Perhaps to sound poetic by being cleverly vague.  Or maybe that was just the typical muddled headed thinking of people of the time.  But poetry lends itself to mysticism and incantations.  So the Bible becomes more supernatural, being pushed along by magical sounding poetry that makes no sense.  When we were kids, magic words were fun like that.  We would stand in front of a brick wall and in our best low and ominous voice, we would chant "Open Sess-a-mee".  Nothing would happen so we would tell each other that we didn't say it in the right way.  And then we would laugh at our moment of fantasy, and continue on our way to the playground.

Perhaps the writers of King James had a penchant for poetry and wove some of the "magic" in during the translations.  Writers of the day, and especially before, had no knowledge base to work with, so writing had to rely heavily on word smithing to gain the King's favor.  And in the time of the first writings, I don't think people read to learn about the latest discoveries in medicine or astronomy.  Those that could read were part of the power elite, and probably looked to the Bible for lessons in sounding all "hoity toity" to the masses.

The Bible:  The most unfathomable compilation of ancient writings, where gibberish is second only to nonsense.  You won't learn how to fix a lawn mower, or make a decent plow share.  Its lessons are much more than that.  It teaches us to pretend to know the unknowable.  Clutch it firmly and close to your chest while talking to others on the steps of the church on Sunday morning.  Let passing drivers see that the Bible is always close to your heart, and by clutching it firmly in your grasp, others will know that you will never let go, as you stand gazing skyward in the light and grace of the Lord for all to see.