what would be an actually good reason to believe in a god.

[Mr.Obvious]

So you say I have no evidence.

Yet you definitely don't have any answers so are you willfully ignorant?

    I have heard no argument from any atheist that with a little research could be proven false or show that their is inadequate evidence for the position.

Good thing the atheist position is justified not by the validity of it's claims, of which it needs make none, but by the lack of evidence for claims of the opposite.

 

 



   

   


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[Kaleb5000]

Good thing the atheist position is justified not by the validity of it's claims, of which it needs make none, but by the lack of evidence for claims of the opposite.

 

 



   

   


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Actually the same could be said about Atheist. You have no proof for your claims. No answers just rejection of truth because it interferes with your life. 


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[Kaleb5000]

Good thing the atheist position is justified not by the validity of it's claims, of which it needs make none, but by the lack of evidence for claims of the opposite.

 

 



   

   


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The fact  Atheist exist implies a claim. If you did not need a claim you would not need to identify as a Atheist.

  Being a skeptic implies you are not a skeptic about something. Like your skepticism of God shows you are not skeptical about the fact he does not exist.

   Which is your claim, which you have no evidence or answers for. Just a bunch of theory's. most of which if were proven true would still not prove there is no creator. 


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[Mr.Obvious]

Actually the same could be said about Atheist. You have no proof for your claims. No answers just rejection of truth because it interferes with your life. 

I was talking about atheism in the first place. So I don't really get what you are getting at.
But, no, as an atheist I have no claims I need to prove.
I don't think I reject truths. I reject unsubstantiated, unlikely assertions. As you make claims, present their evidence and if it holds up; I won't reject it.

Simple.

[Mike Cl]

All I need is the New Testament forget the other non biblical writers. There is plenty of reason to believe the New Testament is true. But I am certain no amount of evidence would say 90% of Atheist because they don't want there to be a God. They want to be their own God. 

Since this is so, why are here?  You have a closed belief system and evidence does not play a part in forming it.  You know how atheists think, so why bother to come to an atheist board?  Seems to me you are simply attempting to poke the anthill and see how many ants you can get running around.

[Kaleb5000]

I was talking about atheism in the first place. So I don't really get what you are getting at.
But, no, as an atheist I have no claims I need to prove.
I don't think I reject truths. I reject unsubstantiated, unlikely assertions. As you make claims, present their evidence and if it holds up; I won't reject it.

Simple.

As an Atheist you claim there is no God.


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[Mr.Obvious]

The fact  Atheist exist implies a claim. If you did not need a claim you would not need to identify as a Atheist.

  Being a skeptic implies you are not a skeptic about something. Like your skepticism of God shows you are not skeptical about the fact he does not exist.

   Which is your claim, which you have no evidence or answers for. Just a bunch of theory's. most of which if were proven true would still not prove there is no creator. 

I identify as atheist because there are so many who identify as theist that it makes sense to me to do so.

I'm not skeptic about things that aren't claimed. That much is true. And when anyone walks up to me and claims they can prove there is/ are no god(s), i'll look at that claim and it's 'evidence' skeptically too. It's just not often that people make negative claims seriously.

I'm not claiming there is no creator. I'm not claiming I can prove there is no god. But untill you can prove there is, I have no reason to think there is one.

I'd appreciate it if you focussed on your part of this conversation and not attempt to dictate what I think and believe. Especially if you are going to do such a piss-poor job at it.

[Kaleb5000]

Since this is so, why are here?  You have a closed belief system and evidence does not play a part in forming it.  You know how atheists think, so why bother to come to an atheist board?  Seems to me you are simply attempting to poke the anthill and see how many ants you can get running around.

Actually my belief system was closed. For 32 years I believed there was no God or maybe there is no God. Then I became a believer. I have studied both sides and Atheist have no ground to stand on. Mainly you are a bunch of arrogant hard hearted individuals. It's sad to see that the world has hardened your hearts. Maybe one day you will quote running.

  As to why I come to a atheist board. It's because rather then blindly claim my faith I am learning constantly until the day I day what the view points of others are. So I know how to argue them if they are incorrect. Much like the intelligent atheist do. The ones that can hold a conversation with out getting angry or make claims with no argument to back it up.

   You see as Christians we are to spread the Gospel and let people know about Jesus Christ. A lot of people have questions that are hard to answer. I don't want to be a Christian who's answer is " well you just got to have faith" contrary to what atheist believe faith is not blind. Faith in Greek is Pisteuo which means to trust. To place confidence in. Who trust or places confidence blindly. Unfortunately to many people Christians included. I have studied the evidence I continue to study the evidence and continue to see more and more reason to believe in God and Jesus Christ then to not. Atheist just have not presented any good arguments.

   I enjoy dialogue about this topic and hope to speak with atheist who will not hurl insults and have a intelligent conversation. 


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[Kaleb5000]

I identify as atheist because there are so many who identify as theist that it makes sense to me to do so.

I'm not skeptic about things that aren't claimed. That much is true. And when anyone walks up to me and claims they can prove there is/ are no god(s), i'll look at that claim and it's 'evidence' skeptically too. It's just not often that people make negative claims seriously.

I'm not claiming there is no creator. I'm not claiming I can prove there is no god. But untill you can prove there is, I have no reason to think there is one.

I'd appreciate it if you focussed on your part of this conversation and not attempt to dictate what I think and believe. Especially if you are going to do such a piss-poor job at it.

You affiliate yourself with a group because they are the minority. If hurler was around would you become a Nazi because they are the minority?


If you are claiming you don't know if there is a creator then why do you claim to be a atheist?


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[Mr.Obvious]

You affiliate yourself with a group because they are the minority. If hurler was around would you become a Nazi because they are the minority?


If you are claiming you don't know if there is a creator then why do you claim to be a atheist.

Do read carefully; i used the word identify, not affiliate. As I understand it, they have a different meaning.

I don't have any reason to believe in a deity. Theists keep failing to support their claim. But if there weren't so many of them, I wouldn't have to identify with the label 'atheist'.
If atheism were the norm, atheists wouldn't have to identify as atheists, despite being atheists. That's all I was getting at.

I don't know if there is a god. That isn't what i've been saying up to this point, but it's true. That makes me an agnostic. I also happen not to believe there is a god (as no evidence for his existence has been presented). This makes me an atheist. I don't have to "believe there is no god". It suffices "not believing there is one".
I also don't have to make the claim there is no god. I just don't have to believe your claim that there is one.

[Mike Cl]

Actually my belief system was closed. For 32 years I believed there was no God or maybe there is no God. Then I became a believer. I have studied both sides and Atheist have no ground to stand on. Mainly you are a bunch of arrogant hard hearted individuals. It's sad to see that the world has hardened your hearts. Maybe one day you will quote running.

 

I find that interesting.  I think the same way, but in reverse.  I grew up thinking there probably was a god, but did not really do any hard studying on the subject.  I thought much the same through college and the Army.  Sometime after I became a teacher I became more curious about god/no god.  Started studying slowly and sporadically.  My divorce lead to an emotional/spiritual crisis of sorts and began thinking of the spiritual side of life more deeply.  Began a more through study of the bible and jesus/god.  Married a catholic (recovering catholic, actually) and we studied together.  I went to a few traditional churches, but that proved too unsatisfying and enlightening.  Found Unity church and stayed with that for 10 years.  Was board president and secretary and VP for 6 of those years.  I yearned to find 'god' or 'jesus' and develop so sort of bond or relationship.  That did not pan out.  During this time are started a fairly serious study of the issues.  I gathered a small library that consisted of the most conservative types (McDowell, Crossian, and others), those in the middle and those that were either atheist or skeptic.  I like to look at a problem from all angles, not just one because I try to approach a question with an open mind.  I read the bible a couple of times (the New Revised KJ version--learned that that is just one of many, though) and with the aid of a concordant or two.  The more I studied, the more I realized that both god and jesus are fictions.  And that the bible is deeply flawed and cobbled together by men from a very large group of individual writings. 

You strike me as a typical theist.  You make judgments; make unsubstantiated claims; and demand that we give you a book full of 'facts' before you give one.  I don't feel I have to 'prove' there is no god to somebody who offers no proof there is one.  You ask question after question without offering to answer any.  That is not a discussion.  That is an interrogation. 

You see, I think it is you that has a hardened head and heart.  You have to, for that is how you hold on to your faith; faith cannot exist when facts are included in the thought process.  You are the one that comes to us with preconceived notions of what it is I think and how I think it.  Just as no two theists are exactly alike; no two atheists are exactly alike--in fact, the atheist is more likely to be totally different than the one right next to him.  Now, if you would like to have a discussion, discuss away.  What that would look like to me is that you give me some evidence about your beliefs (not 50 or 100, or 10--just one), so that we can share our thoughts about that evidence.  That way, over the course of a discussion we can learn more about how the other thinks.  I'm willing to partake of something like that, if you are.  If so, present away and I'll tell you why I disagree or agree (and not, just that I do agree or disagree).

[Blackleaf]

As an Atheist you claim there is no God.

No. As atheists, we do not believe the claim that there is a god. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.

[Kaleb5000]

I find that interesting.  I think the same way, but in reverse.  I grew up thinking there probably was a god, but did not really do any hard studying on the subject.  I thought much the same through college and the Army.  Sometime after I became a teacher I became more curious about god/no god.  Started studying slowly and sporadically.  My divorce lead to an emotional/spiritual crisis of sorts and began thinking of the spiritual side of life more deeply.  Began a more through study of the bible and jesus/god.  Married a catholic (recovering catholic, actually) and we studied together.  I went to a few traditional churches, but that proved too unsatisfying and enlightening.  Found Unity church and stayed with that for 10 years.  Was board president and secretary and VP for 6 of those years.  I yearned to find 'god' or 'jesus' and develop so sort of bond or relationship.  That did not pan out.  During this time are started a fairly serious study of the issues.  I gathered a small library that consisted of the most conservative types (McDowell, Crossian, and others), those in the middle and those that were either atheist or skeptic.  I like to look at a problem from all angles, not just one because I try to approach a question with an open mind.  I read the bible a couple of times (the New Revised KJ version--learned that that is just one of many, though) and with the aid of a concordant or two.  The more I studied, the more I realized that both god and jesus are fictions.  And that the bible is deeply flawed and cobbled together by men from a very large group of individual writings. 

You strike me as a typical theist.  You make judgments; make unsubstantiated claims; and demand that we give you a book full of 'facts' before you give one.  I don't feel I have to 'prove' there is no god to somebody who offers no proof there is one.  You ask question after question without offering to answer any.  That is not a discussion.  That is an interrogation. 

You see, I think it is you that has a hardened head and heart.  You have to, for that is how you hold on to your faith; faith cannot exist when facts are included in the thought process.  You are the one that comes to us with preconceived notions of what it is I think and how I think it.  Just as no two theists are exactly alike; no two atheists are exactly alike--in fact, the atheist is more likely to be totally different than the one right next to him.  Now, if you would like to have a discussion, discuss away.  What that would look like to me is that you give me some evidence about your beliefs (not 50 or 100, or 10--just one), so that we can share our thoughts about that evidence.  That way, over the course of a discussion we can learn more about how the other thinks.  I'm willing to partake of something like that, if you are.  If so, present away and I'll tell you why I disagree or agree (and not, just that I do agree or disagree).

   Ok then why do you think the New Testament is false. I think it is true for several reasons but let's just give a few.

The disciples had nothing to gain and everything to loose.

  The historical details are accurate. People and places

The disciples gave testimony that would be embarrassing to them.

  It was written by eye witnesses or people who were disciples of eye witnesses and written very close to the time of Jesus.

  That's just a few. We can stick to the just the New Testament of you like.


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[Baruch]

No. As atheists, we do not believe the claim that there is a god. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.

As materialists, they claim there is nothing supernatural, so there is no G-d.  As rationalists, they claim that life is reasonable if we learn to think straight.  I find both these claims to be false, that there is nothing natural and nothing rational about life, no matter how you think about it.  Any visiting theist would do better to spend time with me, since I at least have eyes to see and ears to hear.  Rationalism and materialism are like Wizard of Oz, before while Dorothy was still in Kansas.  Seeing in technicolor, black and white still exist for me, but they are not limits for me.  Some theists seem to experience color, but they deny the existence of black and white.  You are both wrong ;-)

[Kaleb5000]

No. As atheists, we do not believe the claim that there is a god. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.

lol which would mean you believe the claim there is no God.

  If you were not sure there was a God then you would not be a atheist correct?


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