Zimmerman's Gun Auction - A "Piece of American History"

[marom1963]

I have an idea.  How about we not discuss that incident in this thread?  We already have several long and heated threads devoted to exactly that.

Fine.
But tell me - what is the gun w/o the incident attached to it besides - a gun? Who would pay more than its retail value for just - a gun?
I'll shut up - if everyone else shuts up.

[KUSA]

Because nobody believes for a minute that he would have shot an unarmed white boy under otherwise exactly the same circumstances. He shot that boy for being black in his neighborhood. And it doesn't matter that Zimmerman was Hispanic.

He would have shot anyone that was beating the crap out of him.

[Shiranu]

Murderabilia.

I think most of the problem is that killers are made famous, creating a market for grisly mementos in much the same way that there's a market for other historical memorabilia like Mount Saint Helens ash, WW2 Japanese swords, and Civil War rifles.

Perhaps. There is a difference between war or tragedy memorabilia for the sake of owning it or as a "trophy" (I have a German Officer's Bayonet and an old Mannleicher, neither of which are trophies of course) brought back after WW2 and what is happening here though. The difference was the money paid for them did not go towards the Nazi party or a Neo-Nazi group. Nor does the money for St. Helen ashes go towards organizations that want to deface and belittle Firefighters or Seismologists.

Murderabillia, as far as I know, does not generally go towards feeding the ego of the murderer or funding hateful causes he supports but is rather sold by private individuals who happened upon these items and want to make a quick buck, and that is where I take issue. If you want to own the knife Jack the Ripper chopped his victims up with, or a pen owned by Charlie Manson then have at it... it is your money, enjoy it it. I find it morally objectionable but not "wrong"... what I find truly disgusting and abhorrent is to line up to buy an item that you know the money will go towards bigotry all so you can, at best, own something of controversial violence. At worst this becomes just what it is... an auction for hateful individuals to donate more money to hateful organizations.

This is why I am more or less ignoring the Zimmerman issue going on in this thread, because it is irrelevant... his guilt or innocence is completely inconsequential here. What is important is that people who believe he murdered Treyvon because he was black want to buy the gun because it was the gun used to kill a black kid, and to sweeten the deal the money goes towards combating black rights/oppression awareness groups. Who cares about Zimmerman when you have these people actively admitting their guilt?

[Mike Cl]

Good for Zimmerman. The shooting was justified and this gun is only a "piece of American history" because of the dumbass corporate media that was obsessed with this non-story. Zim may as well take advantage of the stupid shit the media spews by making himself some money. And no, Treyvon's family doesn't need a dime of it. They've gotten plenty of big donations. They will be fine.

they would be even finer if Treyvon were back.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

My thoughts about Zimmerman..we're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're not entitled to our own facts. I no longer trust nor believe the media reports one way or the other whether they support him or they try to demonize him. The guy is a pariah to some people and a hero to others.
My personal opinion of him which is not very high is irrelevant.

[Baruch]

He would have shot anyone that was beating the crap out of him.

Maybe, but that isn't what the law says.

[Baruch]

I have no doubt Zimmerman is a prick. The media sees the need to report on every little thing he does in his life, and his reputation can't get much worse at this point, so he might as well make him some money. Yeah it's insensitive, but he can't make his reputation any worse than it already is. My problem with the Trayvon case blowing up and being the biggest court case in years, is that there was never any reason to think that a murder was committed. There was never any evidence to show that a murder took place, yet people still continue on with their religious belief to this day, calling him a murderer or telling him to shoot himself.

It wasn't murder one as I understand it.  But the law is more complicated than that .. all the way down to manslaughter three.

[KUSA]

Maybe, but that isn't what the law says.

What did the law say?

[Sargon The Grape]

What did the law say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjaj08sJBf4

Sorry, I had to.

[Nonsensei]

Remember that period of time in the beginning when Trayvon was an innocent 14 year old buying Skittles at the corner store?

So many people on these forums are so certain of his guilt. Reason range from "i don't like him as a person" to "Trayvon was black and Zimmerman wasn't therefore it was murder not self defense". You're all supposed to be skeptics. Do any of you apply that thought process to anything outside the question of religion?

Theres not enough evidence to conclude that it was murder, and nobody knows how the altercation went down. Yet so many of you are 100% certain he murdered an innocent black kid. What exactly are you basing that on? And just so we are clear I don't want to hear any circumstantial evidence cause theres enough of THAT to sufficiently support both sides. Whats your definitive proof? What piece of evidence makes you believe that you aren't just jumping to an emotionally driven conclusion?

If you can't give me a reasonable answer, and you consider yourself a skeptic, you may want to step back and take a look at yourself for a moment. THIS skeptic will continue to refuse to believe in things until sufficient evidence for them is available or attainable.

[Shiranu]

Again, all irrelevant to the actual topic at hand.

[aitm]

Well let's be honest, the guy, hate or like, has an opportunity to make some money on his notoriety. Given his recent history of marital problems, legal problems and whatever else is pending, the smart thing is to take whatever you have that has a real chance of making some money. I have absolutely no problem with what he is doing. If he gets 3 million bucks don't blame him, blame the whack job that paid that. I am sure he is not getting more than 10 grand but hey….nuts with money abound.

You, I, they, them, never get a chance in life to have the opportunity to make money off of any type of notoriety. Yeah this probably sucks for him as well, but it is the ONLY venue he has. Hate him..fine. Go on the net and rip all you want. But grant that the chance is indeed all he has and all he will most likely ever get. It it perfectly fine to hate this, but this is a case of some type of weird whacko supply and demand that I can't understand. Don't blame the jackass for making money off it, blame the people paying it.

[Mike Cl]

Remember that period of time in the beginning when Trayvon was an innocent 14 year old buying Skittles at the corner store?

So many people on these forums are so certain of his guilt. Reason range from "i don't like him as a person" to "Trayvon was black and Zimmerman wasn't therefore it was murder not self defense". You're all supposed to be skeptics. Do any of you apply that thought process to anything outside the question of religion?

Theres not enough evidence to conclude that it was murder, and nobody knows how the altercation went down. Yet so many of you are 100% certain he murdered an innocent black kid. What exactly are you basing that on? And just so we are clear I don't want to hear any circumstantial evidence cause theres enough of THAT to sufficiently support both sides. Whats your definitive proof? What piece of evidence makes you believe that you aren't just jumping to an emotionally driven conclusion?

If you can't give me a reasonable answer, and you consider yourself a skeptic, you may want to step back and take a look at yourself for a moment. THIS skeptic will continue to refuse to believe in things until sufficient evidence for them is available or attainable.

From my point of view, if Zimmerman had backed off when the police had told him to, that innocent or criminal (or however you view him) black kid would not be dead now.  Since he refused to do as the police suggest, then he has to accept more of the responsibility of what happened later on.  And from all that I can glean, he was a wannabe police officer of some sort; and carrying a loaded pistol with him on his 'patrol' was not the most prudent thing to do.  I don't care if it is labeled murder or not, the kid lost his life because of the lack of responsible behavior of Zimmerman. 

[Nonsensei]

From my point of view, if Zimmerman had backed off when the police had told him to, that innocent or criminal (or however you view him) black kid would not be dead now.  Since he refused to do as the police suggest, then he has to accept more of the responsibility of what happened later on.  And from all that I can glean, he was a wannabe police officer of some sort; and carrying a loaded pistol with him on his 'patrol' was not the most prudent thing to do.  I don't care if it is labeled murder or not, the kid lost his life because of the lack of responsible behavior of Zimmerman. 

I don't see how you can place responsibility on Zimmerman for following him but not on Martin for assaulting Zimmerman. If Martin assaulted Zimmerman, then all bets are off. 100% of the responsibility for Martin's death lies with himself if he attacked Zimmerman. All he had to do was not attack someone and he would be alive.

Sadly, we won't ever know what happened in that alley, which means that assigning blame and responsibility is an emotional exercise not a fact based one. I refuse to engage in it, and in situations where theres not enough evidence to arrive at a conclusion i tend to side with the law which states he is innocent until proven guilty. Since it is not possible, based on the available facts, to prove he is guilty that means he is innocent.

As a side note: I think people should stop trying to tell others what to talk about or discuss on these forums. Theres hardly a thread posted that does not eventually evolve beyond the original topic. I know some of you don't want to revisit this issue. Thats fine, just dont read or respond to the posts you aren't interested in. But don't try to tell people what to say. Surely we aren't that draconian here.

As to the auction, its obviously in pretty poor taste. One thing I won't argue is that Zimmerman shows no remorse for the death of Martin, as is exemplified in this garish auction. I don't see it as an indication of guilt though. If I killed someone while defending myself I would be hard pressed to summon any remorse.

Then again I wouldn't be auctioning the item I used to kill them.

[KUSA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjaj08sJBf4

Sorry, I had to.

Weak.