Russia wants to bomb Canada

[Sargon The Grape]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/russia-offers-water-bombers-specialists-to-help-fight-fort-mcmurray-fire-1.2893439

OTTAWA -- The Trudeau government has yet to respond to an offer by Russia to dispatch massive water bombers and fire fighting specialists to battle the growing inferno around Fort McMurray, Alta.

The proposal was made late last week by Vladimir Puchkov, the Russian minister of emergency measures.

A spokesman for Russia's embassy in Ottawa, Kirill Kalinin, said Sunday that they continue to stand "ready to help our Canadian partners to fight the ongoing wildfires in Alberta."

The offer involves sending converted Ilyushin Il-76 transport planes -- the kind occasionally leased by the Canadian military -- that can dump as much as "42 tons of fire retardant into fire spots," according to a statement on the web site of Russia's Civil Defence, Emergencies and Elimination of Consequences of Natural Disasters.

In addition, Moscow said it has "rescuers and specialists with necessary equipment" ready to help on the ground, if need be.
There has been a diplomatic chill between Canada and Russia since Moscow's annexation of Crimea in the spring of 2014, but since the election the Liberal government has said it wanted a constructive relationship with President Vladimir Putin's government.

Speaking on CTV's Question Period on Sunday, Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said the fire, which is expected to cover up to 3,000 square kilometres by the end of the day, continues to grow. But he made no mention of the Russian overture -- or any other potential pitch of international assistance.

"It's big. It's out of control and the end is not in sight," Goodale told the news program.

The Department of Global Affairs was asked about the Kremlin's offer and whether other countries had extended similar proposals, but no one was immediately available to comment.

Canadian officials did tell Russian media that the proposal was being studied.

At least 27 air tankers and 15 helicopters are involved in fighting the wildfire that has driven over 88,000 people from their homes in the oil patch community.

Goodale was also not prepared Sunday to call out the army to join the over 600 firefighters from Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba and New Brunswick who have been part of the effort to contain the blaze, the origins of which remain a mystery.

Troops were deployed last year to help contain a massive woodland blaze in Saskatchewan, but Goodale said Sunday it was best to leave the current disaster to full-time firefighters.

"This is a beast of a fire and it needs the most professional fighters to contend with it," he said.

The air force, meanwhile, deployed one of its new heavy-lift battlefield helicopters Sunday for the first time in support of the disaster relief operation. The CH-147F Chinook took two loads of food, medicine and emergency supplies to a First Nations community 50 kilometres outside of Fort McMurray.

It bolsters the existing four CH-146 Griffons and the one C-130J Hercules, which have been involved since midway through last week.
The Chinook, with its 10,886-kilogram load capacity, is an important addition for moving relief supplies quickly into remote area, said Maj. Gord Gushue, the deputy commander of the air task force supporting the operation.

He said the skies around the wildfire are already pretty congested and military pilots have had to take care.

"You can appreciate that the (civilian pilots) might be running a bucket ops where they scoop up water and move it around, going up and down quite a ways. So, they have to be very careful to make sure no one is flying underneath them -- or overhead," Gushue said in an interview from Edmonton.

The pilots have faced some pretty severe smoke conditions that in one case saw a Griffon helicopter take off from Fort McMurray and fly out using instruments because the conditions were so bad.

[Hydra009]

There are already plenty of planes in the air, so I'm not sure the point of this generous offer other than political grandstanding.  Canada would request this sort of help if they wanted it.  And given Canada's recent experiences with Russian bombers, it'd probably be better for everyone if they stayed on the tarmac.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Planes need down time for maintenance and to make sure they don't have an negative air-ground interface. More planes means more time with the max number of birds on the job.

[aitm]

 

negative air-ground interface.

er……ain't dat called a crash?

[SGOS]

That fire sounds like a hot one.  I haven't heard any comparisons, but I'm wondering how it compares to the devastating 1910 fire that blacked Montana, Idaho, and Washington.  There's been a lot of talk out west about forests ripe for burning on a huge scale, and a trip through the Colorado Mountains 4 years ago revealed miles and miles of bug killed timber, standing everywhere ready to catch fire.  I'd never seen bug kill to that extent before.  Also, May seems incredibly early for a large fire, unheard of in Montana, anyway, and I would think Canada would be much the same.  By August things are likely to be much worse.  This is more than just an exciting news item.  It's creepy and foreboding.

[Flanker1Six]

Planes need down time for maintenance and to make sure they don't have an negative air-ground interface. More planes means more time with the max number of birds on the job.

Good one! 

At the training before my last Iraq project; one of my fellow trainees was a former State Cop from_____________.   He was one of their fixed wing pilots, and had I forget how many thousands of flight hours.  We were talkin' **** and tellin' stories on the way back from training one day, when the topic of flying came up.  Someone asked him what he thought the most difficult aspect of his flying career had been?  He says something to the effect; Well; most pilots and instructors say it's landing the aircraft that's the most difficult.  I never could figure out how they thought that, because if the engine quits, or the plane runs out of gas...........................you'll land alright!   

[Unbeliever]

er……ain't dat called a crash?

Yeah, bullshit with which to keep us mushrooms in the dark: bureaucrat-speech.

[Baruch]

Good one! 

At the training before my last Iraq project; one of my fellow trainees was a former State Cop from_____________.   He was one of their fixed wing pilots, and had I forget how many thousands of flight hours.  We were talkin' **** and tellin' stories on the way back from training one day, when the topic of flying came up.  Someone asked him what he thought the most difficult aspect of his flying career had been?  He says something to the effect; Well; most pilots and instructors say it's landing the aircraft that's the most difficult.  I never could figure out how they thought that, because if the engine quits, or the plane runs out of gas...........................you'll land alright!   

Ever fly a simulator ... even on a PC?  Any heading to ground induces anxiety in the flier.  It is important for passengers to only see to the side, not to the front.  This is probably a natural fight/flight response ;-)

[SGOS]

Ever fly a simulator ... even on a PC?  Any heading to ground induces anxiety in the flier.  It is important for passengers to only see to the side, not to the front.  This is probably a natural fight/flight response ;-)

I paid for a ride in a glider with one of those businesses that will take you up in exchange for your life savings, but it was worth it.  I don't know if they always land them like we did, but suddenly the pilot went into a steep dive.  The sensation was more like a nose first freefall, with the airstrip coming up to meet us at breath taking speed.  At the last minute the pilot leveled off, and we landed like a normal plane.  Not expecting that dive right before landing was a bit of a heart stopper.

I've only been up in a glider that one time, so I don't know what's normal.  Perhaps with a glider, the pilot only has one shot at a touch down.  If he ends up short of the runway, he might not have enough power to pull up, so maybe they dive like that to generate the necessary power they might need if they are coming in too low.

I'm just taking a guess.  It seemed like an odd way to land, although it seemed to work fine.

[stromboli]

I've fought brush fires on the ground, got bombed once by a bomber with the chemical they use called Bentonite. Ruined my uniform shirt, but the shit works. Coats the plants with a sticky pink residue that smothers the flames. Nothing like somebody yelling "incoming!" and turning to see a purple/pink cloud of doom headed straight for you. The shit hits bare skin it fucking stings.

Had occasion to buy some smoke jumpers a beer up in Ketchum Idaho on a big forest fire they had while we were camping. I think they call them wild land firefighters now. Got to watch the helicopters taking on the fire along route 75 up to Stanley. Dangerous shit. Anybody does that-male or female- has got some stones.

We see the helicopters and bombers here somewhat regularly because they use Hill and the Ogden Airport for staging. I live close enough to the mountains to occasionally see them working on a fire on the mountainside. they used to have bombers on airborne standby at the Salt Lake airport. But too much air traffic made that impractical. Anyway, they have my admiration.

[SGOS]

I spent a night and part of the next morning at the smoke jumper base in Missoula, MT on my way to fire on the Salmon River in Idaho.  Those guys are adrenaline junkies.  We were walking around looking at the planes, when a loud speaker called two guys to suit up for a jump.  They came out of the barracks at a dead run across the tarmac to the plane, where some helpers were ready to help them into their padded suits and the rest of their gear.  They were jacked up so much they were shaking with anticipation.  They were taking off within 5 minutes from when their call came in.  It is a dangerous but exciting job.

We also walked around the warehouse where they store their gear and pack their chutes.  There was a locked cage where they stored medical kits.  On the door to the cage was a sign that specified the number of Demerol kits that were to be taken on a jump, according to the size of the crew.  That was kind of chilling to think about the danger of breaking a leg or getting hurt miles away from the nearest trail or road.

Later that week, while fighting that fire on the Salmon River, I watched a barrage of rocks come down the hill and hit one of the guys on my crew in the head.  It knocked him cold and I watched him cartwheel down the hill until he smashed into a tree.  We were put to work clearing a pad for a helicopter, and that guy was carried to the pad in a bloody mess, still unconscious.  It probably took 45 minutes to prepare the pad on the steep hillside.  When they finally loaded him on the helicopter, he was still unconscious and then the chopper was gone.  He was back on the fire crew the next summer, however, and I asked him how all of that turned out.  He had a metal plate in his head.  I can't remember how long he was in the hospital.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hoban 'Wash' Washburn: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Define "interesting".
Hoban 'Wash' Washburn: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

[stromboli]

I spent a night and part of the next morning at the smoke jumper base in Missoula, MT on my way to fire on the Salmon River in Idaho.  Those guys are adrenaline junkies.  We were walking around looking at the planes, when a loud speaker called two guys to suit up for a jump.  They came out of the barracks at a dead run across the tarmac to the plane, where some helpers were ready to help them into their padded suits and the rest of their gear.  They were jacked up so much they were shaking with anticipation.  They were taking off within 5 minutes from when their call came in.  It is a dangerous but exciting job.

We also walked around the warehouse where they store their gear and pack their chutes.  There was a locked cage where they stored medical kits.  On the door to the cage was a sign that specified the number of Demerol kits that were to be taken on a jump, according to the size of the crew.  That was kind of chilling to think about the danger of breaking a leg or getting hurt miles away from the nearest trail or road.

Later that week, while fighting that fire on the Salmon River, I watched a barrage of rocks come down the hill and hit one of the guys on my crew in the head.  It knocked him cold and I watched him cartwheel down the hill until he smashed into a tree.  We were put to work clearing a pad for a helicopter, and that guy was carried to the pad in a bloody mess, still unconscious.  It probably took 45 minutes to prepare the pad on the steep hillside.  When they finally loaded him on the helicopter, he was still unconscious and then the chopper was gone.  He was back on the fire crew the next summer, however, and I asked him how all of that turned out.  He had a metal plate in his head.  I can't remember how long he was in the hospital.

The camp up by Ketchum was all tents. further North, their base was a wide spot, I swear, not much more packed with Helicopters. Big fuckers- I think they were all repurposed Sikorsky Sea Dragons. Saw a lot of dudes in orange gear all over the city. The city treated them like heroes, everybody was buying them meals and beer. I bought 2 six packs at the Safeway and handed them out. Chatted with a few of them, shook hands and wished them well.

Most people don't realize the effort involved. On the ground you are fighting a fire with a shovel or a pick. In my case, digging up roots of Gambrel Oak which grows everywhere. The fire follows the roots underground and you have to dig it up, which is back breaking work. The bad part is you will be going back to fight it again a day later, because it keeps burning and you will miss some hot spots. We fought one fire on Squaw Peak Southwest of Provo Canyon for like a week.

Lol. Fished on the Salmon River a couple of times near Challis. Used to camp at Little Bayhorse Lake when I had my 4X4 F150. Good times. I guess you and I have been some of the same places. I might get lucky and head back that way. The loop from Twin Falls up through Ketchum and back down through Challis is pretty nice, lots of scenery. Follows the river a good part of the way.

Makes me itchy to get out of here, but too much shit on my plate right now.

[SGOS]

The camp up by Ketchum was all tents.

That's how most of them are, and the one on the Salmon fire was the same way.  The stop at the Smoke Jumper Base in Missoula was an odd anomaly, and the only time I experienced that.  The National Forest I worked on got a call from Idaho, and they started assembling a 25 man crew with 4 or 5 guys from each district on the Forest, who then proceeded by pickup or suburban from their district offices to a dusty airstrip 60 miles away, where a smoke jumper plane would pick us up.  The plane was an old DC-3, stripped down to plywood floors and one long bench running from front to back instead of passenger seats.  It even had the wire above the bench that the smoke jumpers hooked their static lines on.

By the time all 25 crew members came together it was getting late in the day.  To add another monkey wrench, the DC-3 was low on fuel, so we had to fly over to Glacier International Airport in Kalispell to get gas.  By the time we got to Missoula it was dark, and the rest of the trip from Missoula was going to be on a bus, anyway.  So they fed us there and put us up for the night.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to see the place.  I think now they may offer tours to the public during the summer, so anyone that was interested can get to see it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This is how we get guys volunteering for SEAL training.