Poll
Question:
Did you once believe in a god(s)?
Option 1: I once believed
votes: 27
Option 2: I never believed
votes: 10
Just curious how many people here once believed in god(s) and now don't believe compared to those who never believed. These experiences seem to be very different. I never believed.
When I was younger I thought maybe but then that's childhood innocence naivety right there.
Never
Quote from: pr126 on March 13, 2016, 08:04:04 AM
Never
Very never. Religion was not an issue in our home, so I was not indoctrinated. Simplified my life no end.
I did, as everyone here should know by now. Apparently, never with the faith required to sustain it as a reasoning adult, but there was a time way back where I did not question that belief.
Quote from: SGOS on March 13, 2016, 08:17:53 AM
I did, as everyone here should know by now. Apparently, never with the faith required to sustain it as a reasoning adult, but there was a time way back where I did not question that belief.
Questioning belief is fatal to religion, and one of the reasons that it's a major no-no in many belief systems. I love to enjoy folks who find all kinds of plot-holes in movies and still believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God.
I believed for many years until very recently as I was indoctrinated at a very young age (2 or 3 is as far back as I can remember these discussions) to believe god was "everywhere". I was raised in a traditionally christian home by parents who I do not discuss my atheistic beliefs with as my dad especially would likely be very mad at me. As an adult I was late to the table in terms of critical thinking skills but looking back, things started to unravel for me years ago when I studied my husband's religion and found the doctrine to have more holes than Swiss chess. I started to study other denominations and religions and the only logical conclusion I could come to was they are all man made. That and experiencing the hypocrisy of "loving" religious people who disown family members for not believing the same as them.
I feel so much less anxiety and much more enjoyment out of life now that I know god is not "everywhere".
Grew up in the Mormon church. Left Mormonism at age 42 and became a Christian because I wanted a peer group for my kids/family and most of the material I read denouncing Mormonism was Christian based. I did everything for 18 years including serving as a youth leader in a Jesus People Ministry church. Was involved in founding 2 churches in the area, and for some years I did Thanksgiving dinners for shut in people and the elderly. I don't regret that, but I'd like to have back all the tithing I contributed over the years. Many thousands of dollars. In for a penny....I make a commitment I stick with it.
42 years a Mormon and 18 years a Christian. It took my wife longer to agree with me on atheism, but our next to last church, a Prosperity Gospel, was so full of shit it was impossible to believe. The last was a Free Will Baptist. I have been there and read the pamphlets. I have researched religion for years and and am very, very firm in my atheism.
I was always a skeptic since I was old enough to grasp what it was. I grew up in a family of unquestioning believers, we were affiliated with a church, but not religious, and didn't really attend all that much. I was a true believer for like two weeks when I was in confirmation classes. It felt good, I have to admit, but then, yeah. The skepticism and logic crept back in.
As a child I did not think about it until 10 or so. Then went to a couple of churches in Alabama. Tried to believe, but just couldn't swing it. Dabbled in it until mid adulthood. Seriously tried for 6/7 years but still could not swing it. So, basically, I never did believe in god.
I resent this question as it's a conspiracy to makes us all feel guilty...;-)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 13, 2016, 11:50:25 AM
I resent this question as it's a conspiracy to makes us all feel guilty...;-)
Some of us, that is.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 13, 2016, 11:52:17 AM
Some of us, that is.
I was speaking of the intention, not the result... :hammerhead:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 13, 2016, 12:04:03 PM
I was speaking of the intention, not the result... :hammerhead:
Eh?
I stopped believing in the gawd at age 15 and The Catholic dogmas are very silly.
I think I did, but it's hard for me to separate in hindsight how much I actually believed versus how much I just wanted to believe.
I don't believe in G-d, even though I am a theist. Because "believe" means several things, and for me a different usage than others here. I don't believe in the New England Patriots (football team). I am not a fan, I hope they lose every game. But that doesn't mean that they don't exist, or that there aren't other people who are fans, who want them to win every game. That G-d may exist in metaphysical terms, I don't doubt (I have no reason to be skeptical, I am at rock bottom like Descartes). But that isn't a scriptural god or religion god ... that is why I use the avatar I use. The scriptural god or religion god isn't G-d ... it is fantasy and wish fulfillment. That is how I don't believe in G-d.
But there were times when I believed in G-d in scriptural or religious terms. I simply can't relate to fantasy and wish fulfillment any more ... it isn't epistemological (be rational, be empirical, be scientific) like it is for the rest of you. My mind is intact, but my heart is not. My inner child is wounded, but not dead.
Why do people write "G-d" instead of "God"?
Quote from: TomFoolery on March 13, 2016, 01:06:21 PM
I think I did, but it's hard for me to separate in hindsight how much I actually believed versus how much I just wanted to believe.
I wonder if there is any truth to the statement (I just came up with it): "If you find yourself wanting to believe, you probably don't believe."
I was wondering, because from my own experience, I went through an intense wanting to believe in my late teens. It didn't work out for me, and just sort of fizzled. I continued to think of myself as a Christian, because admitting any atheism in myself would have been akin to identifying as a sexual pervert, and I couldn't accept the label.
But in thinking back at the great fizzle, it should have alerted me to what was really going on inside.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 13, 2016, 11:50:25 AM
I resent this question as it's a conspiracy to makes us all feel guilty...;-)
Is it better to have been in love and learned she wasn't who you thought she was than never to have loved at all?
Quote from: Mermaid on March 13, 2016, 01:21:31 PM
Why do people write "G-d" instead of "God"?
I wonder about that as well.
As to the OP, I'm a True Blood Atheist (TBA: pronounced "tabba") that never had a god belief. Therefore, I'm superior and get free beer.
Quote from: kilodelta on March 13, 2016, 04:06:01 PM
I wonder about that as well.
As to the OP, I'm a True Blood Atheist (TBA: pronounced "tabba") that never had a god belief. Therefore, I'm superior and get free beer.
Why the F didn't anyone tell me about the free beer when I was a kid? It would have saved me a lot of soul-searching.
Quote from: Mermaid on March 13, 2016, 01:21:31 PM
Why do people write "G-d" instead of "God"?
One reason is superstition (don't take the name of the Lord your G-d in vain). Another reason is to be clear. These are not the same God vs god vs G-d ... or it is a joke ... a "god of the gaps or dashes" ;-) There are lots of gods, but only one God (this is monotheist, though most Christians aren't). But I don't mean God, so for me it is G-d. But if I were a Mahayana Buddhist .. it would correspond to the transcendent body of the eternal Buddha ... of which Sakya-Muni was a manifestation/avatar.
Quote from: Mermaid on March 13, 2016, 04:07:34 PM
Why the F didn't anyone tell me about the free beer when I was a kid? It would have saved me a lot of soul-searching.
Tabbas don't advertise. That's why no one has heard about us.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 13, 2016, 03:35:56 PM
Is it better to have been in love and learned she wasn't who you thought she was than never to have loved at all?
Falling in love with a lovely person, then have your heart broken is part of growing up - no shame, no resentment - but falling in love with god is like falling in love with a truly horrific monster, there's no pleasure in talking about that.
Yes, as a child I was indoctrinated with the Episcopalian religion and experienced common peer pressure to go with it. But it didn't last. By my early teens I was questioning much of the dogma, tenets and stories. I fell away by my mid to late teens and have remained a non-believer ever since.
I did. And I wasn't even heavily indoctrinated.
My parents didn't believe but had me baptized and take my communion because it was expected by our grandparents; so more out of tradition. We didn't go to church or anything. But in elementary school I had 'religion' instead of 'ethics' and in the scouts there were some christian themes. I ran with it and accepted it at once. I was a very gullible kid, honestly. Plus, there was something enamouring about possessing this certainty and feeling special and protected and loved.
In hindsight, I don't think my unfounded convictions did me much good in the long run though. I became rather full of myself and arrogant. I was an annoying teen during puberty who felt entitled to special treatment. And there was no way I could be the source of my own problems, after all, I was special and created the way I was meant to be... This led to an attitude that delved me in deeper.
I remember in the pre-to-last year of high school, once, I dismissed a fellow students' ideas of psychics and fortune-telling as it was unfounded and unproven. And somehow something switched in my mind. A little voice said; yeah, but how's that different with your beliefs in God? This led to a long period of me trying to believe, but losing ground constantly the more I researched and tried to hold on to those beliefs. It was a very uncomfortable time, but it also pushed me to see my social and fysical problems as my own and mine to solve. Which in the long run, I'm convinced, got me to this time in my life in which I'm most content.
raised a roman catholic. Every brand of bullshit is still bullshit.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 13, 2016, 05:40:28 PM
Falling in love with a lovely person, then have your heart broken is part of growing up - no shame, no resentment - but falling in love with god is like falling in love with a truly horrific monster, there's no pleasure in talking about that.
I have some fond memories of those monsters.
I've been an atheist as far as I can remember, but it's not from lack of trying. Because my attempts were honest, I was agnostic. Those honest excursions into the state of mind known to believers as the spiritual world, is the abandonment of fear. Feels nice to be surrounded by accepting, forgiving, well off people when abandoning all fear.
I did up 'til around I was 13. But I came out of the proverbial closet at 17.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on March 14, 2016, 12:12:28 PM
I have some fond memories of those monsters.
I've been an atheist as far as I can remember, but it's not from lack of trying. Because my attempts were honest, I was agnostic. Those honest excursions into the state of mind known to believers as the spiritual world, is the abandonment of fear. Feels nice to be surrounded by accepting, forgiving, well off people when abandoning all fear.
Well when you have a man wearing a piece of garment, acting like he knows it all, telling you will fry in hell, it ain't no pleasant memories. So fond memories was not my experience. Quite the contrary.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 14, 2016, 12:42:18 PM
Well when you have a man wearing a piece of garment, acting like he knows it all, telling you will fry in hell, it ain't no pleasant memories. So fond memories was not my experience. Quite the contrary.
Oh, I thought we were talking about women.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on March 14, 2016, 12:55:44 PM
Oh, I thought we were talking about women.
LOL
No in those days, transgender and sex orientation had not enter society's vocabulary. I was raised as a catholic, and the priest wore those awful clergy garments. So who knows what was going on underneath all that.
I don't really know when I stopped believing in god, because it didn't just happen. I didn't even look for it to happen, it just eventually did and I noticed it. I had a vague belief in god around the 2005, but I still kind of believed in god. This was back in highschool. I didn't think about it, but I would say, back then I did believe.... enough to pray if I was really upset about something. It would be really rare for me to pray for something even when I believed, but I still did it up until around then and maybe a little later.
Around 2005, there was a news story on 60 min or something about scientology. Tom Cruise just jumped on Oprahs couch and people shined a spotlight on this new brand of crazy that is scientology. I don't know if his visit to oprah/jumping on her interview couch was related in anyway, but all this happened around the same time, so I always relate them to each other. In the news story, they showed some other families and the affects Scientology had on them and needless to say I said to myself "wtf is wrong with these people".
That week in gym class, while we're getting ready for class, I turned to a group of kids that I was friends with at the time and said. "did you see that scientology thing the other night. That stuff is crazy. They're calling scientology a religion too. Scientology isn't a religion"
One friend turned to me and simply said "What makes scientology any less of a religion than being a jew or christian?"
I didn't know what he meant by that, but it got me thinking. I still don't know what HE meant by that, like if he was implying that they all were bullshit, or that they all are true... I don't know and probably will never know because we aren't friends really any more and have lost touch.
That question though... That was the question that started everything. It was in the back of my head. Implanted. It didn't have me "looking" for atheism. Over the next couple of years, I learned "energy healing" and how to use a pendulum to cure illnesses... I went to a few reiki semenars. (One of which, was a 2012 death cult, probably... don't know what reiki has to do with death cults, but I can't help but have that impression from that one group...).... I leaned about "charging" white cloth and water with positive energy. The whole lot. Eventually my faith just broke.
I started researching the occult for a painting I wanted to work on. I wanted to do a nice big painting of a god that the normal population wouldn't know about. I went to the library and checked out a few books. I found a book that just was a 2 inch thick book with each page full of gods and goddesses. These weren't picture descriptions either. each god was just... listed there. There were probably a ratio of 10 gods per page. With a book that thick, I can't even count how many there were. This got me thinking about how there are so many religions but a lot of these gods... NO ONE believes in anymore. The god I picked to paint for my senior presentation at college, Hel, no one even knew who that was. Probably only 5% of the people there even knew that the Norse had their own mythology. Even a lot of people outside of school, not many people know of the goddes Hel and what her role was.... but way back when. A whole civilization knew it to be the truth. Just like our civilization "knows" that Yahweh, Jesus, Muhammad, Moses to be the truth.
Maybe that is when my faith broke. With that painting. Shortly after that, maybe half a year to a year after, I realized that I'm an atheist. I didn't "decide" it, I just realized "Oh. Yeah I guess that's what I am. A skeptic, atheist"
I stopped believing at 15 years old. My brothers don't believe either. My parents are 0/3 in getting the religion stuff to stick with us.
Raised Methodist. The congregation was a somewhat liberal (except when it came to the gays and never failed to hand out Republican-only "election guides" during election years) and well-meaning bunch. They came down pretty hard against creationism, which is good. I first noticed that something was wrong when the main pastor was ill and the assistant pastor took the reins - apparently her being female and heading the church was controversial. I didn't and still don't understand why that'd be a problem.
I didn't become an atheist until I was 20. Reading Thomas Paine's Age of Reason really helped sow doubt about Christian beliefs, while reading Demon Haunted World and talking with atheists online helped push me towards atheism. There was never a day that I woke up and decided to become an atheist. I just noticed that I no longer really believed the stuff that I used to believe. Richard Dawkins and the rest of the Four Horseman helped me explore and cement my position.
I did, but I also believed in Santa too.
When I was young, I believe in God and thought of him as a sky-daddy figure. As a young adult I dropped the sky-daddy image and sort of believed in something, but didn't think about it much. In my mid-30s I actually started thinking about it, and after a lot of reading and discussion I realized that there was no evidence whatsoever for any god, and became a non-believer. Even though I intellectually reasoned that there was a remote possibility that something akin to god could exist, I knew deep down that there was nothing.
Until just recently. I've done a 180 and believe in God. Not in the sky-daddy version, but the unknowable God that isn't a he, she or it, but a vague, indescribable perfection that's at the heart of being and goodness. I know, it sounds silly. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Quote from: Jack89 on March 14, 2016, 07:26:40 PM
When I was young, I believe in God and thought of him as a sky-daddy figure. As a young adult I dropped the sky-daddy image and sort of believed in something, but didn't think about it much. In my mid-30s I actually started thinking about it, and after a lot of reading and discussion I realized that there was no evidence whatsoever for any god, and became a non-believer. Even though I intellectually reasoned that there was a remote possibility that something akin to god could exist, I knew deep down that there was nothing.
Until just recently. I've done a 180 and believe in God. Not in the sky-daddy version, but the unknowable God that isn't a he, she or it, but a vague, indescribable perfection that's at the heart of being and goodness. I know, it sounds silly. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Kind of reminds me of my brother. The belief in the 'something'.
Quote from: Jack89 on March 14, 2016, 07:26:40 PM
When I was young, I believe in God and thought of him as a sky-daddy figure. As a young adult I dropped the sky-daddy image and sort of believed in something, but didn't think about it much. In my mid-30s I actually started thinking about it, and after a lot of reading and discussion I realized that there was no evidence whatsoever for any god, and became a non-believer. Even though I intellectually reasoned that there was a remote possibility that something akin to god could exist, I knew deep down that there was nothing.
Until just recently. I've done a 180 and believe in God. Not in the sky-daddy version, but the unknowable God that isn't a he, she or it, but a vague, indescribable perfection that's at the heart of being and goodness. I know, it sounds silly. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Yeah, it is rather silly. But Paul also believed in the gnostic type ethereal figure he called Christ. So, grab some of his writings and you may become enlightened.
And ask yourself, when you plug into this 'indescribable perfection' can this come from another source other than supernatural ways?
Quote from: Jack89 on March 14, 2016, 07:26:40 PM
the unknowable God that isn't a he, she or it, but a vague, indescribable perfection that's at the heart of being and goodness. I know, it sounds silly. I'm still trying to figure it out.
I hear that voice. It is the voice of everything around me showing me the way, whether it intends to or not.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on March 15, 2016, 01:32:18 AM
I hear that voice. It is the voice of everything around me showing me the way, whether it intends to or not.
The way of the predator? Go natural ... attack and eat other humans ... while nude. Got bath salts?
Quote from: Jack89 on March 14, 2016, 07:26:40 PM
Until just recently. I've done a 180 and believe in God. Not in the sky-daddy version, but the unknowable God that isn't a he, she or it, but a vague, indescribable perfection that's at the heart of being and goodness. I know, it sounds silly. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Now that I've had a chance to reflect a bit about your 'vague, indescribable perfection' I remember where I first encountered it and where I tried to make it my own. It was while I was in the Unity Church. Charles Filmore, it's founder, suggests that all humans have the 'Christ Consciousness' within. That is the route to our true nature, our spiritual nature. The more we dwell upon it and search for it the more it will guide us down our path to perfection--the perfection that all of us are. Google his name and then research the Unity Church. I think you will be happy with what you find. And he wrote a very interesting tool to tackle the Bible with--The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary. Google that as well, and read a bit of it. It is very interesting in that you can render any and all Bible stories into a lesson about your own internal state.
I was involved in the church for about 8 yrs or so, but I eventually recovered. But there are those who are still there and have not recovered. But they are not of the fundamentalist sort. Anyway, it seems to me this is a better fit for what you are seeking than a more rigid, fundamental type of religion.
When I was young my parents never attended church. They were too busy raising 8 kids and both working. But mom was always religious. It wasn't like she made a point of being religious or anything, it was just a fact of life that there was a God and he wanted us to be "good people".
Then around 14 they re-joined their old Pentecostal church. That's when things got nutty, and for a while I was the creamy nougat which held all that nuttery. I am the black sheep of my family. Not to brag, but I'm smarter than the rest. Not too tough, though. I have two brothers with mild learning disabilities. As a late teen there was a conflict between what I had believed to be true all my life and what I knew to be true now that I was more mature. I got hit with it right in the age where my intelligence was taking over and killing the nut within me, but I wasn't mature enough to understand what was happening. It was the most difficult time of my life. The Pentecostal church is no place for ANY kid. It's certainly no place for a smart kid.
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2016, 06:48:30 AM
The way of the predator? Go natural ... attack and eat other humans ... while nude. Got bath salts?
So far, it hasn't turned out that way. It's more like Tarot cards. The signs follow one's intended nature.
This is a hard question for me to answer. As a sociopath, I have little of what can be called a conscience, nor have I much in the way of feelings. I've never had a fear of death, and I'd have no qualms about murdering or raping or torturing anyone, provided I had something to gain from it and nothing to lose.
So did I ever believe in a god? Well, it's kind of something I can turn on or off when it suits me. I can see "the spiritual" in life if I need to, and other times I can see nothing but reality, if it suits me. At the moment I'm atheist. If I was bored, I might believe in a god long enough to read a crazy passage in the Bible (reading about God slaughtering people is cosmically fascinating when you believe in him), or if I see an advantage to being a priest (like if I was a pedophile or if I wanted to toy with parishioners' lives), I might believe in god just to make it a less banal life, I suppose.
You can just choose to believe or not to? Strange, the phrase double-think comes to mind.
Quote from: The Atheist on March 17, 2016, 04:38:47 AM
This is a hard question for me to answer. As a sociopath, I have little of what can be called a conscience, nor have I much in the way of feelings. I've never had a fear of death, and I'd have no qualms about murdering or raping or torturing anyone, provided I had something to gain from it and nothing to lose.
Yeah...... Go seek help.
The household I was born into lacked anything about religion, faith or god. Yet there has never been strict labels or an agenda to guide me t0wards anything. Just this unspoken feeling of great distance and negative aspect the oldest I remember back. That I knew something was different with my lot, but didn't know what it was. Esp. if you think people in my community look very secular from outside with their lives, it is no surprise I didn't pick up on anything really problematic until I reached late 20s.
Do you know that age when you read every book you get your hands on around 12, like you read like eating them? I have a very vivid memory of my father getting very uncomfortable when I found my way to the bible in the home library when I was 13. I don't think he feared fear islam, but mostly christianity and buddhism as we were raised, conditioned under Western culture. Mostly he talked about how female is defined in all religions, doesn't matter which one including Buddhims and the similar faith systems...etc. He is not a father of a Holywood movie kind that sits down and talk to her daughters and that was a few of the exceptions.
But the first time I heard atheism in an elaborate way from my younger uncle at 15. It was a different time than now. It just flew very organically and normal. I didn't feel anything special, positive or negative about it. It was just an official definiiton and a name given to me. "This is what you are talking about, kiddo. You are an atheist." Of course I have been warned countless times about how people like me are regarded everywhere around the world. Dad gets very annoyed when I get loud and I get scolded. LOL.
Thanks for sharing again, Shoe. I enjoy speaking with my daughter on a one-on-one basis. Sorry your dad is more like my dad ... mine wasn't comfortable talking in general ... perhaps because he was too self conscious about him not being educated.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 17, 2016, 04:44:26 AM
You can just choose to believe or not to? Strange, the phrase double-think comes to mind.
Sociopath? The phrase, "Lock him up," comes to mind.
Quote from: Baruch on March 17, 2016, 06:23:44 AM
Thanks for sharing again, Shoe. I enjoy speaking with my daughter on a one-on-one basis. Sorry your dad is more like my dad ... mine wasn't comfortable talking in general ... perhaps because he was too self conscious about him not being educated.
Yeah mine is not a chatty type. He is one of those old school guys who talks seriously when it is neccessary. He has his moments. We usually end up butting heads and eventually with 'no, I am right!' convo. :lol: It's fun though. He is smart and educated. They both are. He is a very playful man when he is cheerful. Mom always said the only difference between me and my father is gender. Even though she is the best source to make a comparison, I always thought she was exaggerating, but for the last decade I think she is right. But dad has/d much more domestic and successful life than me overall, lol. And I really shouldn't be allowed to criticise my parents, because it really doesn't get better than this under my circumstances.
Quote from: The Atheist on March 17, 2016, 04:38:47 AM
nor have I much in the way of feelings.
The 2nd paragraph seems to have a little more than not much feeling.
I intended to have a lucid dream once. The dream quickly became pointless to me.
My family went to a Methodist church until I was 16 but none of us were very religious people. My dad was an atheist but didn't come out and say so until I was a teenager. He said he took us to church because our mother was Christian and "it was the social thing to do." Growing up in the South in the 60' and 70's church attendance was expected, especially in my parent's social circles. I remember reciting the children's bedtime prayer, "now I lay me down to sleep..." until I was old enough to understand the "if I should die before I wake" part, then I was too scared by the reality I could go to sleep and never wake up to continue. In church service, Sunday school and vacation Bible school this pattern persisted: I would recite along until I understood what I was reading and if the story didn't make sense I wouldn't believed it. As a child Bible stories were like Aesops's Fables and other allegories, they weren't real but would convey a message. I was a bookworm as a child, reading all the time, and the Bible had to compete with a lot of other stories. When I prayed I never felt anything but this didn't surprise me because praying was like casting a spell or wishing upon a star, it was real in stories, not in real life. I never felt "God's love" not because I was resistant but it just wasn't there. When the minister would says "Can't you just feel the love of Jesus fill the room!" I would check my feelings and realize, no, I don't sense anything out of the ordinary. I actually wanted to feel it but it seemed like everyone around me was dancing to music that I couldn't hear, but fortunately I could fake the dance by mimicking the other dancers. The stories in the Bible, the sermons I was hearing on Sunday, didn't match my perception of the world around me; they didn't seem intuitively true, factually true and didn't even seem like a good way to live one's life. There were a lot of other stories that did speak to me, that moved me and explained the world in a way that made sense and seemed more genuine. I feel like I devoted enough time trying to understand Christianity and I've long since move on to other ideas.
Never. Even as a kid I thought the idea was preposterous. It actually puzzled me how adults, who were supposed to be smarter than a mere kid like me, could believe in such ridiculosity.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 17, 2016, 12:12:22 PM
I could fake the dance by mimicking the other dancers.
I find that so exhausting. We different people sure are talented. If the normal people ever figured that out, they'd tie us to organ grinders.
I believed as a child what I was told, until I had reason to cease believing the drivel. I'm unsure just how much I believed, but I took the word of those I trusted, and used God's existence as a working hypothesis (though not in just those words) until it stopped working.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 17, 2016, 05:57:01 PM
I believed as a child what I was told, until I had reason to cease believing the drivel. I'm unsure just how much I believed, but I took the word of those I trusted, and used God's existence as a working hypothesis (though not in just those words) until it stopped working.
I had older brothers and sisters. I learned early not to trust what people told me:
"Eat this, it's delicious."
"I asked Mom and she is fine with it."
"Whatever you do don't swallow a watermelon seed. It will grow in your stomach and kill you."
"You know you're adopted, right?"
"You had a twin sister who fell down the stairs and died. That's the creaking noise you hear at night. She's trying to take your place."
I believed when I was a teenager. And those beliefs may or may not have been influenced by the cute girl in bible study...
As Saul/Paul said, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
Still do. Bunches of them.
Prometheus.
May I have Kali?
Only if I can have Sean Connery as my personal deity to pray to.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 20, 2016, 07:00:43 PM
May I have Kali?
I don't see why not. But what leads you to her? Change, creation..................destruction?????
Kali is one of my personal choices if I were Hindu. I like goddesses ... like Saraswati better ... goddess of learning.
Kali ... she takes on a terrible aspect, to scare away the demons possessing you. As she approaches you are terrified, because of the possession, and then once the demons are scared out of you, you experience bliss. Think of Kali as a psych counselor.
I used to be a Christian. Went to various churches over the years, including the Worldwide Church of God (which rejected pagan holidays and kept the Jewish ones, and also kept Saturday as the Sabbath). Tried really hard to fit in. I went to church and Bible study, I prayed and believed, I tried to have faith in God, but when I prayed, it never felt like anyone was listening. Figured there must be something wrong with me, or I wasn't doing it right or something.
What started me on the path of unbelief was getting a computer, joining several forums, and meeting people of different religious beliefs. See, I was always told that any non- Christians were worshiping the devil, but i met pagans, Wiccans, and Hindus and they didn't seem particularly bad. Somehow, I ended up on some atheist website (can't remember the name of it), and it brought up a lot of issues that I hadn't considered, asked questions for which I had no answers. The more I studied the bible, the more convinced I became that it wasn't what I had been told it was. It was not the word of God, it was not infallible, creationism wasn't true, and Jesus was unlikely to have been a real person. Eventually, I turned atheist.
Yes. I grew up baptist in a strict religious family. All about Jesus.
Looking back on my past, I keep adding new little tell tales that should have alerted me to my atheism sooner. Recently, I was thinking about the utter boredom of going to church. I used to think it was just immaturity, but now I'm sure it was the futility and irrelevance of it. I paid fairly good attention, but what I was aware of was mostly was the constant ritual, sitting, standing, praying, taking turns group reading as a response to minister, and the singing. All of it was ritualistic and stylized, but never once giving me a connection to God, or ever giving me the feeling that something was at the other end of all the worship. It was a pointless endeavor for me, because I understood underneath it all, it was nonsense.
I always enjoyed the group singing. Other than that ... most people aren't into ritual these days.
Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2016, 06:39:42 AM
Kali is one of my personal choices if I were Hindu. I like goddesses ... like Saraswati better ... goddess of learning.
Kali ... she takes on a terrible aspect, to scare away the demons possessing you. As she approaches you are terrified, because of the possession, and then once the demons are scared out of you, you experience bliss. Think of Kali as a psych counselor.
Sounds promising to me. :))
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 03, 2016, 06:11:45 PM
Sounds promising to me. :))
Dr Freud's worst nightmare ... Kali as her Jewish mother form ;-)
Yeah I was raised as a protestant, then I thought about it ............................................................................. that and girls pretty much kicked what thin vestige of faith I'd managed to drag with me into my teens right out the back door.
I see all types of faith more and more as something which people just kind of grow out of.
Quote from: MOO on April 07, 2016, 09:08:13 PM
Yeah I was raised as a protestant, then I thought about it ............................................................................. that and girls pretty much kicked what thin vestige of faith I'd managed to drag with me into my teens right out the back door.
I see all types of faith more and more as something which people just kind of grow out of.
Most people don't seem to grow out of it. I don't know that given enough time they would. They seem to clutch onto it until they die.
I thought it was possible as a child, then I read the bible. Figured it out after that!
My mother was quite religious; as is most of her surviving family. When I was 7 or 8, I was invited to Sunday School by one of my peers. My Mom leapt on that opportunity like a cat on a mouse. Resulting in my brother and myself being coerced into Churchy/Schooly "attendance" for the next 10 years or so. A couple of years after being roped into involuntary Church/Sunday School Servitude (however well intentioned) I was further conned (frequently the result of a particularly ugly brew of minimal life experience, combined with an ill formed id, and will) into the idea that attending Church Summer Camp was a positive life experience.
It was a good learning experience for me though. As one day..............................out of the blue.............................when no one else was about. My camp cabin counselor/mentor spoke with me privately about "accepting Jesus as my personal savior", (if I hadn't been smart enough to already), or the very attractive alternative of BURNING IN HELL FOREVER! I admit it........................I bit on door #1, as there didn't seem to be much of a career path in door #2!
My take away these many years later? People who lean on 10 year olds about eternity, burning in hell, and that sort of **** are really just manipulative, opportunistic PsOS!
That didn't come off as cynical did it? Because if it didn't.............................I could ramp it up! :)
Someday we can get beyond our childhood traumas ... if we work at it ;-)
Quote from: Flanker1Six on April 20, 2016, 09:48:17 PM
My mother was quite religious; as is most of her surviving family. When I was 7 or 8, I was invited to Sunday School by one of my peers. My Mom leapt on that opportunity like a cat on a mouse. Resulting in my brother and myself being coerced into Churchy/Schooly "attendance" for the next 10 years or so. A couple of years after being roped into involuntary Church/Sunday School Servitude (however well intentioned) I was further conned (frequently the result of a particularly ugly brew of minimal life experience, combined with an ill formed id, and will) into the idea that attending Church Summer Camp was a positive life experience.
It was a good learning experience for me though. As one day..............................out of the blue.............................when no one else was about. My camp cabin counselor/mentor spoke with me privately about "accepting Jesus as my personal savior", (if I hadn't been smart enough to already), or the very attractive alternative of BURNING IN HELL FOREVER! I admit it........................I bit on door #1, as there didn't seem to be much of a career path in door #2!
My take away these many years later? People who lean on 10 year olds about eternity, burning in hell, and that sort of **** are really just manipulative, opportunistic PsOS!
That didn't come off as cynical did it? Because if it didn't.............................I could ramp it up! :)
Cynical???? Ramp up to your heart's content!
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 13, 2016, 05:23:24 AM
Just curious how many people here once believed in god(s) and now don't believe compared to those who never believed. These experiences seem to be very different. I never believed.
I did - until I realized that God and Santa Claus were similar: magical being, living in an exotic place, keeping track of who's naughty and who's nice, rewarding the nice and punishing the naughty (presents v no presents/Heaven v Hell). Both, it seemed, were old, white men w/a beard, except that one liked to eat too much - but at least that one had a wife and a sense of humor and didn't require all sorts of groveling and begging. Santa seemed like a nicer guy.
I was raised catholic but parents aren't very religious so I managed to shake off indoctrination when I was 14 I believe.
Quote from: marom1963 on April 21, 2016, 02:11:50 AM
I did - until I realized that God and Santa Claus were similar: magical being, living in an exotic place, keeping track of who's naughty and who's nice, rewarding the nice and punishing the naughty (presents v no presents/Heaven v Hell). Both, it seemed, were old, white men w/a beard, except that one liked to eat too much - but at least that one had a wife and a sense of humor and didn't require all sorts of groveling and begging. Santa seemed like a nicer guy.
Funny you should mention that. I actually worked with Santa on my last project in Iraq! After noticing his name on the work site personnel list; I was pretty stoked to meet him in person; though you can imagine my shock to discover he was young, thin, very black, clean shaven, and Kenyan. Guess that explains why I never got that drum set I wanted so badly when I was five! As they say...........WTF??!!
Maybe that was whom my father was taking the pot-shots at w/the shotgun - he said some skinny black guy, dressed up as Santa, was trying to steal the Christmas tree! And he flew right up the chimney, too!
Quote from: marom1963 on April 21, 2016, 02:11:50 AM
I did - until I realized that God and Santa Claus were similar: magical being, living in an exotic place, keeping track of who's naughty and who's nice, rewarding the nice and punishing the naughty (presents v no presents/Heaven v Hell). Both, it seemed, were old, white men w/a beard, except that one liked to eat too much - but at least that one had a wife and a sense of humor and didn't require all sorts of groveling and begging. Santa seemed like a nicer guy.
Unlike the Christian God, Santa doesn't require you to believe that he exists to shower you with presents. Good behavior was enough reason to reward you. If Santa were like God, we'd all be on the Naughty List by default.
I was remembering the other day when I was maybe 4 or 5. I had the flu, and was horribly sick. I had just thrown up and I remember breaking out in a profuse sweat. I asked my mother why God lets us get sick, and she said, "It's so you will be grateful when you are feeling well." I thought, "Well OK, if that's what God wants, I'll believe that," but at the same time, I still thought that was a shitty way to make me feel grateful when I'm well. I remember thinking there was something terribly wrong with God's plan on that one.
Quote from: SGOS on April 23, 2016, 11:29:12 AM
I was remembering the other day when I was maybe 4 or 5. I had the flu, and was horribly sick. I had just thrown up and I remember breaking out in a profuse sweat. I asked my mother why God lets us get sick, and she said, "It's so you will be grateful when you are feeling well." I thought, "Well OK, if that's what God wants, I'll believe that," but at the same time, I still thought that was a shitty way to make me feel grateful when I'm well. I remember thinking there was something terribly wrong with God's plan on that one.
Especially when you consider that we'll have an eternity to forget that lesson. Or is God going to make people get sick in Heaven every once and a while to remind them?
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 11:20:22 AM
Unlike the Christian God, Santa doesn't require you to believe that he exists to shower you with presents. Good behavior was enough reason to reward you. If Santa were like God, we'd all be on the Naughty List by default.
Good points. But I was a child. When I was told about God, my reaction was, "Wait - I've heard this before. Isn't he Santa?" But, then, no, Santa didn't allow his one of the elves to be nailed to a cross, either.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 11:48:50 AM
Especially when you consider that we'll have an eternity to forget that lesson. Or is God going to make people get sick in Heaven every once and a while to remind them?
In heaven they can look down on us sinners struck by fire, pointy things and illness and so remember that lesson all the time.
Quote from: leo on March 13, 2016, 12:49:27 PM
I stopped believing in the gawd at age 15 and The Catholic dogmas are very silly.
I think that people are silly - so, maybe the silliness of Catholic dogmas is what makes them so effective?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 23, 2016, 12:34:28 PM
In heaven they can look down on us sinners struck by fire, pointy things and illness and so remember that lesson all the time.
"Hey, Mom. How's the weather down there today?"
"Not too bad. It's only 1,800,000 degrees today. Yesterday, it was 2,000,000."
"Sorry about you not getting into Heaven and stuff."
"No, no. It's my fault for rejecting God. I should have known you were right about God killing himself so he could forgive us for breaking the rules that he made up himself, which he knew we could never live up to, so that we could go to Heaven, but only if we believed in his ridiculously unbelievable story."
"Yeah. Oh well. At least I can watch your pain and suffering as a constant reminder of why I should be thankful."
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 20, 2016, 08:02:27 PM
I don't see why not. But what leads you to her? Change, creation..................destruction?????
None of the above. Just that she is very ancient and not a white male image. Just different than the usual bullshit.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 24, 2016, 06:51:13 AM
None of the above. Just that she is very ancient and not a white male image. Just different than the usual bullshit.
Mine is still Dibella--even if she only exists in Skyrim--or NY as a sub shop.
There's a higher power in me.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 24, 2016, 12:54:29 PM
There's a higher power in me.
That is what distinguishes the slave mentality from the master mentality. If your power is outside you, you are a slave. If your power is inside you, you are a master. Just don't be an asshole to the slaves.
"The Foole doth thinke he is wise, but the wiseman knowes himselfe to be a Foole"
Bill
Quote from: gentle_dissident on April 24, 2016, 02:06:20 PM
"The Foole doth thinke he is wise, but the wiseman knowes himselfe to be a Foole"
Bill
I think I know a guy.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NDy6ZJe9zA4/Vn4uUP1zglI/AAAAAAAARWs/iBFsxOWAeIQ/w337-h337-p/_20151224_023440.JPG)