Great post going around right now that I thought I would post here. The title is admittedly click-baitish... but I couldn't think of a more accurate title. It's slightly long but you cant really explain such an important concept in two or three sentences. It's a response to Kendrick Lamar's "racist stereotyping" of white people and them feeling offended by it.
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Hmm, let's see what Neil deGrasse Tyson has to say, about something tangentially related to this:
http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow
Basically, he says that he encountered more roadblocks because he was black to become an astrophysicist than what a white person or female would, and he experienced one time he got stopped at a store because he was black.
So, yes, there certainly are roadblocks in the way - but is the way to remove them the right one?
No one is denying that matters of race are in inequality. It's just the way some people go about trying to solve them that I find distasteful.
Quote from: Sal1981 on February 28, 2016, 01:39:50 PM
It's just the way some people go about trying to solve them that I find distasteful.
So basically, you are just offended.
I disagree. Being neutral is a perfectly valid option. There are millions of problems in the world. Is any one person capable of actively contributing to the solution of every problem? It's impossible, and unreasonable to expect anyone to try. People will help with whatever issues personally feel passionate about, and I think it's very arrogant to expect everyone else to care about the same things you care about.
As for Kendrick, he's just making things worse, encouraging the division between blacks and whites by being the very kind of person he claims to hate. Nobody is going to sympathize with him. Rather, his hateful attitude will just inspire more hate from his audience. It's counterproductive and hypocritical.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 28, 2016, 01:45:43 PMQuote from: Sal1981 on February 28, 2016, 01:39:50 PM
It's just the way some people go about trying to solve them that I find distasteful.
So basically, you are just offended.
Of course. Their methods are counterproductive.
QuoteAs for Kendrick, he's just making things worse, encouraging the division between blacks and whites by being the very kind of person he claims to hate.
I must have missed where Kendrick hates white people because they are inferiour and wants to destroy their culture because it is disgusting to him...
QuoteNobody is going to sympathize with him.
Obviously :P. That's why he nearly matched Michael Jackson's 13 Grammy nominations with his heavily socially conscious works. Or his music is chanted at BLM rallies.
QuoteTo Pimp A Butterfly netted Lamar seven Grammy nominations this year (out of a total 11 nominations). Lamar took home four awards before the show began, and picked up another award for Best Rap Album at the beginning of the show. The project is up for Album of The Year, the last award of the night.
QuoteRather, his hateful attitude will just inspire more hate from his audience. It's counterproductive and hypocritical.
Except not.
It's like saying N.W.A. was going to start violence against police and whites for calling out the violence they received at the hands of the police and whites... or how we idolize MLK and demonize Malcom X... it's all fear-mongering B.S. to discredit an artist's experiences because he presents it how he saw it and not the picture-perfect family-safe white man idealized version of what a "civilized nigger" should be saying.
Guys, this is not some issue people can solve by trying to make other people happy. You cannot do something real about this without getting offensive in the real world. What is he going to do? Hand out roses, play songs and declare the day black-white hugging day? Talking about how bad is racism? Petitions? What?
These are all done. Countless of times. Everything that can be done gracefully and peacefully has already been done decades ago. And people are angry, because nothing changes. Of course they are going to get offensive, because nothing manage to penetrate the racism.
What do you expect him to do so it would work?
I personally find white people being offended by this very white and nothing else. Please get offended a little.
Quote from: Sal1981 on February 28, 2016, 02:17:40 PM
Of course. Their methods are counterproductive.
As far as I remember you are not white. I don't get most of your reactions. It feels like everything that has a protest and resistence against traditional norms, rules agitate/offend you. It's the dynamic of protest.
E: I am trying to get your perspectve, don't get offended.
Do you find Richard Dawkins offensive? Honest question.
Growing up in the middle of Oklahoma, I thought racism was dead. I've been around black people and mixed couples all my life, and no one's acted differently to anyone. I recently met this black girl from Arkansas. She sees racism here where it doesn't seem to be. She's a little high strung. Maybe people were reacting to that. We're pretty laid back here.
The good ole USA did nuke tests on the Marshall Islands from 1946 to 1958. The majority of the displaced Marshallese Islanders, it seems, got shipped here. I keep thinking that it's their custom to be rude, but I'm told by others that they just hate Americans. I should tell them that I didn't bomb their islands. I keep trying to connect with them. I think I'm making progress.
Kendrick is right. The whites with power do hate his people and are happy to see them remain pretty much enslaved, in poverty and in jail. America was not built for blacks. There are a few politicians like Bernie Sanders or Ron Paul that will stand up for them, but the rest really don't care about blacks at all. It's understandable that black people would want justice for Eric Garner and people like him, but I don't think enough time is spent talking about ending the war on drugs and improving education. You're not going to get justice for all these black people shot by police. We can talk about fair or not fair, but it would be stupid for those in power to start sending a bunch of police officers to jail. They don't want to hurt morale among police, cause less people to sign up to be police officers, and they like having a corrupt police force that lacks sympathy for the common man. All of this benefits the government, so this is not changing. Getting body cameras on cops is a good thing, but you're still probably not going to be seeing that many more cops going to jail because of them.
So yeah, blacks certainly have reason to be unhappy and speak up about it. There's no doubt about that. I still think there's way too much black vs white stuff in the media these days. I think the government wants blacks and whites to hate eachother, so they are pushing this divide and conquer black vs white bullshit in the news non-stop. Everything these days is black vs white. You can't escape it. Even the Grammys, Oscars, and MTV awards is now all about black vs white. Fucking great. You have all these feuds now between black celebrities and white celebrities, and black actors boycotting the Oscars. The more division there is, the better off those in power are.
I really don't like when some liberals claim that it's not possible for black people to be racist, or for women to be sexist. Black people should be discouraged from hating all white people, just like white people should be told it's not ok to hate all black people. How are race relations going to improve when you have black parents teaching their children that's it's not humanly possible for them to be racist against whites, and then you have a bunch of liberals supporting that position? When you have black parents telling their kids not to play with white children or to be their friends? This attitude is not helping anything, and is only doing harm in my opinion. When someone says only white people can be racist in America, I see that as apologising for hatred. What ever happened to "Judge by the content of their character, not the colour of their skin"?
When I lived in my home town, I knew racism first hand, we didn't allow blacks in town, I never saw a black person until I was 14 at a Tigers Baseball game. When I went to college, black people were everywhere! Racism has died! Racial equality exists in the world! When I move to Florida, I worked with black people, wonderful, funny people. Eventually many worked for me, I had families for dinner, we boated together, I proclaimed to myself that racism had died and I was quite pleased with my role in it. Then I moved to Lubbock Texas…H O L Y F U C K!
"here is the list of people I think we should hire"
"okay.,,hmmm this guy here, is he black?"
"Uh-yeah that guy is"
"We don't hire niggers".
"Uh….what?"
"Nope"
"Pilter Plumbing gave us a pretty damn good price on the school job, I am writing their contract today"
"No, Pilter is a bunch of niggers, we aint' using niggers, all the rest of the subs will walk off"
"C'mon, thats ridiculous"
"Nope"
" We can't have a black guy as a superintendent"
"why not the guy is good and know his shit?"
"no subs will take orders from a nigger"
"oh c'mon, if they see he knows…"
"no"
yeah, quite the eye opening experience.
Most white people wanted all blacks to be the Huxtables…in Lubbock they wanted all blacks to be Kunta Kinta.
Quote from: aitm on February 28, 2016, 04:31:24 PM
Most white people wanted all blacks to be the Huxtables…in Lubbock they wanted all blacks to be Kunta Kinta.
yeah, but in Lubbock, dont they feel that way about yankee's also? I ain't so sure its just a race issue in Lubbock.
Nah, the Yankee's were driving the economy. Ain't never seen a real cowboy bar where 98% wear big old belt buckles and not one of can sit on a horse much less ride one.
Quote from: aitm on February 28, 2016, 05:50:10 PM
Nah, the Yankee's were driving the economy. Ain't never seen a real cowboy bar where 98% wear big old belt buckles and not one of can sit on a horse much less ride one.
This. I think without being to the "developed South" people don't realize how redneck in name only Southerners tend to be. Even many redneck jobs now are much closer to whte collar than blue collar.
Texas at least in many ways could pass for a New England state with a different pair of pants and a little more open bigotry. Even the southern drawl is disappearing, thank God...
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 28, 2016, 01:56:36 PM
I disagree. Being neutral is a perfectly valid option. There are millions of problems in the world. Is any one person capable of actively contributing to the solution of every problem? It's impossible, and unreasonable to expect anyone to try. People will help with whatever issues personally feel passionate about, and I think it's very arrogant to expect everyone else to care about the same things you care about.
As for Kendrick, he's just making things worse, encouraging the division between blacks and whites by being the very kind of person he claims to hate. Nobody is going to sympathize with him. Rather, his hateful attitude will just inspire more hate from his audience. It's counterproductive and hypocritical.
Basicaly this. The only response to this type of hatred and unreasonableness is to say: no, you are wrong. If you want to talk about racism we can do that but you are just wrong on that one statement being an objective reality. A lot of bullshit in that comment trying to somehow make kendricks words acceptable based on some collectivist narratives and unfounded claims it is intellectually flawed and morally selective. The world is much bigger than kendrick lamar and his personal struggles. We cannot abdicate to unreasonableness, hatred and falsehoods no matter how much understandable it is for that person to feel or think that way. Ultimately if as that poster says black people get more and more radical they are only gonna get scalation of violence where the first thing that will die is reasonable and sensible solutions. It might even be that it already died from what you see from BLM protests and rhetoric. We have to stop this hyperbolic rhetoric and talk firmly but with politeness, reason and evidence. That also neccesitates the intellectual destruction of attempts to subvert reason and science with dishonest post modernists tricks and socjus propaganda.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 28, 2016, 02:47:53 PM
As far as I remember you are not white. I don't get most of your reactions. It feels like everything that has a protest and resistence against traditional norms, rules agitate/offend you. It's the dynamic of protest.
E: I am trying to get your perspectve, don't get offended.
Do you find Richard Dawkins offensive? Honest question.
Protests combined with inflamatory rhetoric and emotionally unstable people are generally retarded and only lead to polarization and violence. Look at all the anarchist/communist/fascists protests of the last years in europe. Look at unkraine. The protests slowly scalated violence into civil war between neighbooring ethnic groups. Really weird how you call out the bullshit of inflamatory rhetoric from youtubers that have not actually ever organized their fans into protests where people get assaulted and their rights violated unlike BLM.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 28, 2016, 02:46:50 PM
I personally find white people being offended by this very white and nothing else. Please get offended a
Nice racism there. I find it very womanly how you were unable to understand how criticizing a method as uneffective. Has nothing to do with what you posted. What does it matter thant other methods you mentioned are also uneffective? His claim was not that these other methods are more effective just that this specific methods sucks, which you did not even try address by agreeing or disagreeing with that assesment.
QuoteThe world is much bigger than kendrick lamar and his personal struggles. We cannot abdicate to unreasonableness, hatred and falsehoods no matter how much understandable it is for that person to feel or think that way.
And again... where does Kendrick hate white people? Where is he spreading falsehood? Where is he being unreasonable?
I never see anyone bring up "No no you cant HATE Islamists! You cant HATE child rapists! You gotta be reasonable about these people!"... but when it something that actually is closer to home all of the sudden we cry we gotta stay calm and we gotta stay reasonable. That seems like some bullshit.
QuoteUltimately if as that poster says black people get more and more radical they are only gonna get scalation of violence where the first thing that will die is reasonable and sensible solutions. It might even be that it already died from what you see from BLM protests and rhetoric.
That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.
QuoteWe have to stop this hyperbolic rhetoric and talk firmly but with politeness, reason and evidence.
You think African Americans haven't tried to peacefully bring attention to this issue? What happens when they do... oh... that's right... "Shut up not all cops are evil! All lives matter! THERE IS NO PROBLEM STOP COMPLAINING!!!"
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
QuoteI disagree. Being neutral is a perfectly valid option.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.†- Desmond Tutu
BTW there's things you can do to subvert the state power in clever ways like using grey and black markets and counter economics to subvert the laws banning certain products and services. Piracy, drug trade and underground prostitution are great examples of this. You can also use proper civil disobedience which is you as an individual refusing to abide to unfair laws, not you violating the rights of others. This is something many BLM protestors need to understand.
ok so today I read more about Kendrick Lamar than I have in the years since he was born. I think the facebook person totally messed up the interpretation of that song.
Full lyrics:
http://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-the-blacker-the-berry-lyrics
Rolling Stone interview:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-trials-of-kendrick-lamar-cover-story-20150622
From wiki article on song:
QuoteThe song, however, contains a deeper meaning of the dangers of hypocrisy. Every verse in the song begins with "I'm the biggest hypocrite of 2015", followed by Lamar stating issues of racism in society. The final lyric â€" "So why did I weep when Trayvon Martin was in the street? / When gang banging make me kill a nigga blacker than me? / Hypocrite! " â€" reframes the meaning of the piece, and demonstrates an internal struggle within Lamar and the African-American community about issues of racism and events such as the death of Trayvon Martin. Lamar notes the hypocrisy of black men mourning Martin's death while also themselves committing violent acts against black men, forcing the listener to consider the complexity and perhaps inevitability of the hypocrisy discussed throughout the song
Not only did I read about Lamar, I refreshed my memory on Marcus Garvey:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_enemy.html
My conclusion? Nobody on Facebook knows what they are talking about.
Quote from: Shiranu on February 28, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
And again... where does Kendrick hate white people? Where is he spreading falsehood? Where is he being unreasonable?
I never see anyone bring up "No no you cant HATE Islamists! You cant HATE child rapists! You gotta be reasonable about these people!"... but when it something that actually is closer to home all of the sudden we cry we gotta stay calm and we gotta stay reasonable. That seems like some bullshit.
That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.
You think African Americans haven't tried to peacefully bring attention to this issue? What happens when they do... oh... that's right... "Shut up not all cops are evil! All lives matter! THERE IS NO PROBLEM STOP COMPLAINING!!!"
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.†- Desmond Tutu
Where is kendrick being unreasonable and spreading falsehoods? I know you cannot possibly be this stupid. Why are you being purposefuly dense?
And "Shut up not all cops are evil!" is a perfectly reasonable response to unreasonable claims, that you have it so backwards is really telling. You have drank the koolaid.
Quote from: chill98 on February 28, 2016, 06:32:50 PM
ok so today I read more about Kendrick Lamar than I have in the years since he was born. I think the facebook person totally messed up the interpretation of that song.
Full lyrics:
http://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-the-blacker-the-berry-lyrics
Rolling Stone interview:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-trials-of-kendrick-lamar-cover-story-20150622
From wiki article on song:
Not only did I read about Lamar, I refreshed my memory on Marcus Garvey:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_enemy.html
My conclusion? Nobody on Facebook knows what they are talking about.
This. "The Blacker the Berry" is an absolutely beautiful song of inner-reflection on how he views the situation and an internal struggle on criticising white-on-black bigotry when there is so much black-on-black violence happening.
But I don't think it's an either/or situation... and judging by Lamar's body of work I don't think he does either. He criticises the gang bangers left and right and he critcises the racism of America's culture left and right.
It's why I have to find the people judging Lamar from a few bars hilarious... because the depth of his message is more than just "Oh I read a line from "The Blacker the Berry" or "Blackboy fly" or "Good kidd m.a.a.d. City" and can judge him solely on that!". To call him hateful is to jump on the anti-hype train.
QuoteWhere is kendrick being unreasonable and spreading falsehoods? I know you cannot possibly be this stupid. Why are you being purposefuly dense?
...riiight. Your the one claiming he is spreading falsehoods and being unreasonable. So please... quote from me the song in question... "Blacker the Berry"... where he is doing either of those things. Please.
You're the one claiming a multi-grammy winning artist who is being praised for his social commentary is a liar so... that burden of proof is on you.
QuoteAnd "Shut up not all cops are evil!" is a perfectly reasonable response to unreasonable claims, that you have it so backwards is really telling. You have drank the koolaid.
"Cops are gunning down too many black and poor people in the street."
"SHUT UP COPS ARE GOOD PEOPLE!"
Yes. Totally reasonable. And that is an argument I have straight up seen here on the forum. facebook... okay... whatever. But here? Come on now. fuck your koolaide you just buy into the comfortable narrative that everything is hunky dorry and how could anyone ever complain about it?
Quote from: Shiranu on February 28, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.
Go fuck yourself this is nothing but the typical ad hominems and emotional appeals. Not a single attempt to somehow demonstrate any good is going to come from any of this protests. Im racial minority in a thirdworld country I have been kidnapped at gun point by a police officers in civilian clothing that did not identify himself for the first hour that he held me while i shit my fucking pants then he proceeded to rob me and force me to sign a fake report of the incident in which i was the aggresor while he held me i was so scared thinking he was a rapist or a psycho that i was really close to jumping for his gun which would have only end up badly for me but i decided to endure whatever this fucker wanted me for after he had already taken my possesions because i thought that would be better than dying right there. Others have profiled me and assaulted me and robbed and harrased me and threatened me too including police and gang members, from the top of my head i remenber no less than 20 of this accidents in a period of 3 years when i actually had a social life and went outside regularly. Go fucking drink kool aid if that makes you feel virtuous.
Quote from: Shiranu on February 28, 2016, 06:41:05 PM
...riiight. Your the one claiming he is spreading falsehoods and being unreasonable. So please... quote from me the song in question... "Blacker the Berry"... where he is doing either of those things. Please.
You're the one claiming a multi-grammy winning artist who is being praised for his social commentary is a liar so... that burden of proof is on you.
"Cops are gunning down too many black and poor people in the street."
"SHUT UP COPS ARE GOOD PEOPLE!"
Yes. Totally reasonable. And that is an argument I have straight up seen here on the forum. facebook... okay... whatever. But here? Come on now. fuck your koolaide you just buy into the comfortable narrative that everything is hunky dorry and how could anyone ever complain about it?
Jesus christ you are fucking moron the claim was not about "shut up cops are good people" you imbecile you just fucking changed the words when the quotes are right there. Do you really think people are just not gonna notice you rewriting the claim in the middle of the fucking argument? And yes pointing out that "Shut up not all cops are evil! " is perfectly reasonable when some BLM people seem to think all white cops are white supremacists deathsquads.
Righty o then.
Quote from: Shiranu on February 28, 2016, 06:39:18 PM
This. "The Blacker the Berry" is an absolutely beautiful song of inner-reflection on how he views the situation and an internal struggle on criticising white-on-black bigotry when there is so much black-on-black violence happening.
But I don't think it's an either/or situation... and judging by Lamar's body of work I don't think he does either. He criticises the gang bangers left and right and he critcises the racism of America's culture left and right.
It's why I have to find the people judging Lamar from a few bars hilarious... because the depth of his message is more than just "Oh I read a line from "The Blacker the Berry" or "Blackboy fly" or "Good kidd m.a.a.d. City" and can judge him solely on that!". To call him hateful is to jump on the anti-hype train.
I found the lyrics I read very interesting. The man has talent. But in reality, what does he truly know about racism? From the rolling stone article, he says, there were no white faces in his school. He was a straight A student but still chose the gangbanger path. That was not due to racism. No where does he describe being turned down for a job, or even applying for one. His goal was music and achieved that at approx the same age as Justin Beiber. He talks about rumors on the street about a friend of his domestic violence police encounter that ended with the buddy being shot by the cops. That happens all the time in white america too.
http://nypost.com/2016/02/16/cops-shoot-man-who-attacked-wife-and-kids-police/
I honestly dont know if Larmar is hateful, but he represents that in his music. That is exactly what he is describing his feelings
before he reflects on his own responsibilities. And it is based on heresay, not real life, because in real life, he was at least associating with gangbangers when the cops gave him shit, and clearly implies being up to no good when confronted a 2nd time. So show me where he describes experiencing racism?
And sucking in the youth who listen to him. As we see from Facebook. Because the OP there believes it. And I quote:
QuoteSo, you have a choice as a white person: are you going to be offended by and object to a prejudice against you offered by a man who has been experienced a lifetime of prejudice and institutional racism or are you going to speak out against the blatant and overt racism that has him feeling this way against your people?...
Or just call it bullshit?
There will always be Uncle Toms ... and other stereotypes from classical race literature. Some African-Americans are too comfortable, too under the Stockholm Syndrome ,,, that they are going to lose all they have gained, because the selfishly supportive liberals will choose to drop their support just because ... and Cornel West will say "I told you so".
Look, if you've never really seen or experienced blatant racism and disregard for human life go spend a day sitting in the local court room with a white judge in a mostly black town and watch the racism in all it's glory. You won't hear the judge say the word nigger or any other racial slur. Oh no..They're professionals after all. What you will very likely see are a lot of black men and women get mercilessly slapped with heavy fines they can't possibly pay and outrageous jail time for minor charges.
I've been there. I stood in court and kept my mouth shut even though the judge let me go home for my offense while a black man charged with the very same crime (with a much cleaner record than me) was hauled straight from the court room to do 90 days in jail..
This happened about 15 years ago in Dayton Ohio, not in Alabama or Texas.
I'd like to tell you that I stood up and protested, but I didn't. I was just glad to be going home that day. Does that make me a racist for not standing up and doing 90 days in stir with him? Perhaps, sure if you say so.
Not one of my black friends have ever said that I did wrong.
It's really easy to scream injustice when there's absolutely no threat to your freedom, but go get charged with a crime and go stand in the court room where your freedom is at stake and you might have to go spend a month locked up with 'the brothers' and worry about getting your ass beat daily and twice on Sunday.. Go scream injustice to the judge who sent you there..
Quote from: mauricio on February 28, 2016, 06:16:03 PM
Protests combined with inflamatory rhetoric and emotionally unstable people are generally retarded and only lead to polarization and violence. Look at all the anarchist/communist/fascists protests of the last years in europe. Look at unkraine. The protests slowly scalated violence into civil war between neighbooring ethnic groups. Really weird how you call out the bullshit of inflamatory rhetoric from youtubers that have not actually ever organized their fans into protests where people get assaulted and their rights violated unlike BLM.
What Western media constantly does to Muslim people, refugees, without any discrimination or MRAs and SJWs do, doesn't get this response from you,
marucio.
You are happy with that because you agree with them and support it. You are not happy with Kendrick because it offends you. On the other hand there is no such dynamic between racists and anti-racist or black and white people as the one between SJWs and MRAs which hasn't even existed for a decade yet. I'm not offended by them. I see where are they coming from, but do not approve their game because it is a childish game between two groups only in the internet. And I also even believe in the long term something good can come of that.
This is demagogy. You are defending that angry people stop lashing out about racism and hatred they experience, because it instills hatred, in a white forum.
People on this forum are offended by anything that is NOT white or male. And calling it hateful rhetoric, the political side behind it regressive. Pretty much like Christian Right Wing.
Almost all of the Americans in this forum are CLOSET ATHEISTS. Most of them are white, heterosexual males.
If Donald Trump won the elections, none of them would be affected. Now think about that. What is Donald Trump, what he would/could do to America, your country and to the world, after an 8 years span you passed without rubes AND the FACT that it wouldn't affect your lives directl. Does that register anything? Some of those white het males haven't lived in a republican America as an adult. And if they come to power it won't be like any old republican America this time.
:arrow: Just a man like Donald Trump having real odds at winning the elections in his country makes the anger of any black person justified. It makes MY anger justified. MY LIFE WIL BE AFFECTED DIRECTLY if that piece of shit wins.
You are living in a fantasy world build by pretty pink delusions where nothing actually touches you in real life AND passing down judgements, some ideals of protesting -clearly you have no idea of- because you are OFFENDED.
I've gotten really fucking tired of people who claim to be offended by anything they don't immediately agree with. I'm waiting for someone to tell me just how offensive I am for not adding cream to my coffee and how it's just made their life into a living hell..
In short I'm pretty fucking sick of the drama seeking asswipes.
Yes, there are legitimate grievances people have and there are many highly offensive people out there, but everything that doesn’t quite set right with people 24/7 365 doesn't always rise to the level of being offensive.
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 28, 2016, 01:56:36 PM
I disagree. Being neutral is a perfectly valid option. There are millions of problems in the world.
For some people not. For the most here in this forum, you are basically saying "it doesn't affect me, why should I do something about it or support it". While it is acceptable, I don't get the need people feel arguing
against something anyone passionate about it, unless you are just acting out of being offended.
QuoteIs any one person capable of actively contributing to the solution of every problem? It's impossible, and unreasonable to expect anyone to try. People will help with whatever issues personally feel passionate about, and I think it's very arrogant to expect everyone else to care about the same things you care about.
We are talking about one main issue. Racism is a main issue and the basic problem of the world. Racism is NOT a personal issue.
That bolded part can only be said by a white man about racism.
QuoteAs for Kendrick, he's just making things worse, encouraging the division between blacks and whites by being the very kind of person he claims to hate. Nobody is going to sympathize with him. Rather, his hateful attitude will just inspire more hate from his audience. It's counterproductive and hypocritical.
Oh yeah, he needs to please white people sitting in front of their comps with his protests who are not affected by any situation or any potential change between opposites in the country, so they wouldn't be offended. One strawman after another.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 29, 2016, 12:40:58 AM
Look, if you've never really seen or experienced blatant racism and disregard for human life go spend a day sitting in the local court room with a white judge in a mostly black town and watch the racism in all it's glory. You won't hear the judge say the word nigger or any other racial slur. Oh no..They're professionals after all. What you will very likely see are a lot of black men and women get mercilessly slapped with heavy fines they can't possibly pay and outrageous jail time for minor charges.
I've been there. I stood in court and kept my mouth shut even though the judge let me go home for my offense while a black man charged with the very same crime (with a much cleaner record than me) was hauled straight from the court room to do 90 days in jail..
This happened about 15 years ago in Dayton Ohio, not in Alabama or Texas.
Just to clarify. You spent one (partial) day in a courtroom in Dayton Ohio and describe one black man getting a sentence that you think was unfair and are convinced it was racist and a complete disregard for human life?
I mean, I have never been to Ohio so I dont know. But a question for you. If I was going to travel to Dayton Ohio, as a 50 something white tourist, are there areas you would tell me to stay out of? And if so, why?
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Dayton-Ohio.html
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 29, 2016, 04:11:29 AM
Almost all of the Americans in this forum are CLOSET ATHEISTS.
I did not know that. Was there a poll?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 29, 2016, 04:11:29 AM
MY LIFE WIL BE AFFECTED DIRECTLY if that piece of shit wins.
It seems like he's just trying to bring the conversations out of the coffee shop so we can all address the issues together. I imagine that he speaks the language of your enemy, because he tries to connect with everyone.
Quote from: mauricio on February 28, 2016, 07:06:23 PM
Jesus christ you are fucking moron the claim was not about "shut up cops are good people" you imbecile you just fucking....
*Mod*- Mauricio, consider this a warning to tone down the bullshit attacks, there is no need for that.-aitm
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 29, 2016, 09:52:05 AM
I did not know that. Was there a poll?
Polls, threads...Not a recent poll though.
QuoteIt seems like he's just trying to bring the conversations out of the coffee shop so we can all address the issues together. I imagine that he speaks the language of your enemy, because he tries to connect with everyone.
I think you misunderstood me. I live in Turkey. We already have a Muslim Trump. If the Christian Trump -or the other- wins too we'll have two. It's certainlly will be a catastrophy for many peoples and countries out in the rest of the world. In every scenario it is a catastrophy even they got along OK.
I would ask that people on this particular thread go and take a test... only five minutes of your time.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html)
Take the IAT on skin tone and report back, it you are not afraid of the results.
I show a moderate preference for light skin tone... how about you?
Why do I ask you to do this - because everyone has a bias... it is natural. You just don't know it... or are in denial.
Quote from: GreatLife on February 29, 2016, 12:24:39 PM
I would ask that people on this particular thread go and take a test... only five minutes of your time.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html)
Take the IAT on skin tone and report back, it you are not afraid of the results.
I show a moderate preference for light skin tone... how about you?
Why do I ask you to do this - because everyone has a bias... it is natural. You just don't know it... or are in denial.
I have posted that test here 3 times. People don't take it. Or pretend that that they don't, because noone reported back. Last ones were Sabrina and me, years ago.
I guess I'm not bothered by people generalizing white people as 'racist' because I know I don't tend to stereotype people like I know others do. And even if I do see someone fall a bit in to a stereotype, I understand that a "black guy in a gang" isn't in a gang because it's a stereotype, it's because of a more complex issue that has me, if anything, sympathize.
People that commit crimes, like steal try to hold territory like gangs do are doing it not because they're bad people. They have been put in a "backed in to a corner" mindset and just trying to survive. It's upsetting really.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
I guess I'm not bothered by people generalizing white people as 'racist' because I know I don't tend to stereotype people like I know others do. And even if I do see someone fall a bit in to a stereotype, I understand that a "black guy in a gang" isn't in a gang because it's a stereotype, it's because of a more complex issue that has me, if anything, sympathize.
People that commit crimes, like steal try to hold territory like gangs do are doing it not because they're bad people. They have been put in a "backed in to a corner" mindset and just trying to survive. It's upsetting really.
Seriously?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Waco_shootout
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparks_Steak_House
Would you assign the same thing to these white guys trying to holding territory?
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/53809605.jpg)
No. It does not seem like it was about holding territory, but at the same time, it goes with my statement that people that commit crimes, a lot of times, do it for more complicated reasons than just for the sake of committing crimes.
Most people aren't mugging people on the street because they enjoy mugging them. They do it because they need the money and don't have/know the resources to get it in other ways. Most gangs in impoverished neighborhoods aren't protective against the police and outsiders coming in because they enjoy it, it's because the system has failed them so many times in the past and they don't know another way to deal with it. A lot of these gang members are inducted at a very young age and that's all they know.
...and etc
That's all I'm saying.
I haven't read the entire article you replied with, and in all seriousness, it doesn't matter what the details of it is. Sometimes the reasons for committing crimes is just because of something as simple as 'hate' or them being mentally unstable, but a lot of times it's not. Most of the time it's not.
I'm honestly tired of being reminded every day that racism is around and because I'm white these people of different color of skin thinks it's normal to bash me for something a bunch of old fucks did in the past and a bunch of rednecks and old fucks doing today. I have only did 2 acts of racism my whole life and yes I feel bad but they were minor only because it was an act of anger of being bullied. so I do not wanna live in this hell and I don't want to see others as well so when another cultures such as African Americans start talking about their oppresive race and black panther, and black lives matter I think of blacks doing the same thing them old white fucks did but less so. When a culture does this their only spreading the hate and become the very thing they hate. And when SJW's and feminist support this shit I feel like they can go die right now, because stupid people are excessive as it is in the world today.
When I think of Black history my main thing is Martin Luther King, he was the man, why can't we be more like him?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 01:58:44 PM
No. It does not seem like it was about holding territory, but at the same time, it goes with my statement that people that commit crimes, a lot of times, do it for more complicated reasons than just for the sake of committing crimes.
Most people aren't mugging people on the street because they enjoy mugging them. They do it because they need the money and don't have/know the resources to get it in other ways. Most gangs in impoverished neighborhoods aren't protective against the police and outsiders coming in because they enjoy it, it's because the system has failed them so many times in the past and they don't know another way to deal with it. A lot of these gang members are inducted at a very young age and that's all they know.
...and etc
That's all I'm saying.
I haven't read the entire article you replied with, and in all seriousness, it doesn't matter what the details of it is. Sometimes the reasons for committing crimes is just because of something as simple as 'hate' or them being mentally unstable, but a lot of times it's not. Most of the time it's not.
Baloney. Not your fault, its what you've been fed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Barksdale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hoover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods
They are modeled exactly like mafia/biker gangs. The motive is the same.
Quote from: chill98 on February 29, 2016, 02:12:19 PM
Baloney. Not your fault, its what you've been fed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Barksdale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hoover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods
They are modeled exactly like mafia/biker gangs. The motive is the same.
lol ok. Have fun with that.
Quote'm honestly tired of being reminded every day that racism is around...
Oy vey...
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 02:15:02 PM
lol ok. Have fun with that.
Run Away!!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Shoe_tossing_in_Vitoria-Gasteiz_%282013%29_2.jpg)
ok I am done :)
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on February 29, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
I'm honestly tired of being reminded every day that racism is around
Yeah. It must suck being targeted by racism every day... oh wait. That wasn't what you meant.
I'm white guy. I hear this almost every day too, that racism is still around. I already know racism is still around without the reminder. Unless someone directs it towards me, saying that I am racist because I am white, I don't give a shit. There is only so much you can do as a person. Call it what you want, turning a blind eye or whatever someone wants to call it, I have to worry about my own life. And while I'm more privileged than the muslim guy from pakistan that used to live next to me because I have lighter skin, I'm not going to beat myself up for him being discriminated against because he has darker skin or believes something else. It's just plain stupid to do that. Yes racism still exisists, yes it's not going away any time soon, but if it bothers you, you have the tools to not see it/not see it as frequently as you are. If someone is constantly sharing stuff about discrimination against african americans, unfollow them. You don't even have to unfriend them on facebook. Unfollow them. They see this racism every day because they are targeted by it. They do not have a choice of seeing/not seeing the racism. You do. It's stupid to let yourself be bothered by it if you are white.
Unless you have the time/energy to be a black rights activist and go to protests, etc. There isn't any point in getting caught up in it. That is, unless somone is a a racist, then they can go fuck themselves... lolol
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
People that commit crimes, like steal try to hold territory like gangs do are doing it not because they're bad people. They have been put in a "backed in to a corner" mindset and just trying to survive. It's upsetting really.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 01:58:44 PM
Sometimes the reasons for committing crimes is just because of something as simple as 'hate' or them being mentally unstable, but a lot of times it's not. Most of the time it's not.
I have a hunch that people "backed in to a corner" might 'hate' or be mentally unstable.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 29, 2016, 03:22:29 PM
I have a hunch that people "backed in to a corner" might 'hate' or be mentally unstable.
Yes. But there are some people that hate just because they hate and are mentally unstable because they are just mentally unstable and need medication.
-Sent from your mom
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 02:56:19 PM
Yeah. It must suck being targeted by racism every day... oh wait. That wasn't what you meant.
I'm white guy. I hear this almost every day too, that racism is still around. I already know racism is still around without the reminder. Unless someone directs it towards me, saying that I am racist because I am white, I don't give a shit. There is only so much you can do as a person. Call it what you want, turning a blind eye or whatever someone wants to call it, I have to worry about my own life. And while I'm more privileged than the muslim guy from pakistan that used to live next to me because I have lighter skin, I'm not going to beat myself up for him being discriminated against because he has darker skin or believes something else. It's just plain stupid to do that. Yes racism still exisists, yes it's not going away any time soon, but if it bothers you, you have the tools to not see it/not see it as frequently as you are. If someone is constantly sharing stuff about discrimination against african americans, unfollow them. You don't even have to unfriend them on facebook. Unfollow them. They see this racism every day because they are targeted by it. They do not have a choice of seeing/not seeing the racism. You do. It's stupid to let yourself be bothered by it if you are white.
Unless you have the time/energy to be a black rights activist and go to protests, etc. There isn't any point in getting caught up in it. That is, unless somone is a a racist, then they can go fuck themselves... lolol
Not just on the internet. I live in the rio grande valley, where the majority is latino and holy balls there is racism to white people or the other way around with all these blasted conservatives. I mustve heard the word gringo many fucking times a month.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on February 29, 2016, 03:41:24 PM
Not just on the internet. I live in the rio grande valley, where the majority is latino and holy balls there is racism to white people or the other way around with all these blasted conservatives. I mustve heard the word gringo many fucking times a month.
Then that's a different story then.
-Sent from your mom
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 03:35:39 PM
Yes. But there are some people that hate just because they hate and are mentally unstable because they are just mentally unstable and need medication.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 29, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
it's because of a more complex issue that has me, if anything, sympathize.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/androidlove/Image1_zpso9prge3e.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/androidlove/media/Image1_zpso9prge3e.jpg.html)
Quote from: GreatLife on February 29, 2016, 12:24:39 PM
I would ask that people on this particular thread go and take a test... only five minutes of your time.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html)
Take the IAT on skin tone and report back, it you are not afraid of the results.
I show a moderate preference for light skin tone... how about you?
Why do I ask you to do this - because everyone has a bias... it is natural. You just don't know it... or are in denial.
Of course bias is natural. I don't need to take the test to know that. There's even a well-known study involving children, who were given a white and black doll, which were identical aside from their skin color. They were asked which was "the good doll," and various other questions. Both the white and the black children showed a positive bias for the white doll. Racism is deeply rooted in Western society.
The good news, though, is that blatant racism is becoming less common as it becomes increasingly socially unacceptable to show racism. Some white people are even so careful not to appear racist that they would show less aggression towards black people than they would other whites, according to other studies. Even when the automatic response is that of racist preference, people have been shown to correct, or even overcorrect themselves. Until society gets to the point where racism isn't ingrained into us starting from childhood, that's the best we can expect of people. You can't undo your instincts, but you can fight against them.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 29, 2016, 03:32:41 AM
What Western media constantly does to Muslim people, refugees, without any discrimination or MRAs and SJWs do, doesn't get this response from you, marucio.
You are happy with that because you agree with them and support it. You are not happy with Kendrick because it offends you. On the other hand there is no such dynamic between racists and anti-racist or black and white people as the one between SJWs and MRAs which hasn't even existed for a decade yet. I'm not offended by them. I see where are they coming from, but do not approve their game because it is a childish game between two groups only in the internet. And I also even believe in the long term something good can come of that.
This is demagogy. You are defending that angry people stop lashing out about racism and hatred they experience, because it instills hatred, in a white forum.
People on this forum are offended by anything that is NOT white or male. And calling it hateful rhetoric, the political side behind it regressive. Pretty much like Christian Right Wing.
what are you talking about i always criticize hyperbole and try to find the valid points or get to the underlying concepts. This has fuck all to do with offense. Offense is a meaningless thing to me i do not even know what being offended feels like. I just see things that are illogical, unreasonable, debatable or factually wrong and call bullshit.
You are not addressing anything of what i have said.
BTW This "anti racist" groups like BLM are very much part of the whole SJW issue and they base alot of their "activism" on social media bullshit.
"People on this forum are offended by anything that is NOT white or male."
What does this even mean? If anything is demagoguery is this kind of meaningless tripe you write
Sometimes when I'm serving black people at the fuel station, I feel like you could cut the racial tension with a knife. I don't know which (if either) of us is causing it, but I do wish it would stop. If I knew there were something I could do to help resolve racism, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, the social justice movement's position is that it's "not our job to educate you," despite my having taken social science classes and possessing a decent (if not perfect) understanding of their arguments. I'm of the mind that I'd rather associate with someone I disagree with who nevertheless is willing to engage in some healthy discussion, than be seen with a group of dunderheads with whom I theoretically agree. As such, it infuriates me when I see all of the stupid shit done in the name of social justice. Get attention, sure; but once you have that attention, it's time to stop yelling and start explaining yourself.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on February 29, 2016, 10:58:02 PM
Sometimes when I'm serving black people at the fuel station, I feel like you could cut the racial tension with a knife. I don't know which (if either) of us is causing it, but I do wish it would stop. If I knew there were something I could do to help resolve racism, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, the social justice movement's position is that it's "not our job to educate you," despite my having taken social science classes and possessing a decent (if not perfect) understanding of their arguments. I'm of the mind that I'd rather associate with someone I disagree with who nevertheless is willing to engage in some healthy discussion, than be seen with a group of dunderheads with whom I theoretically agree. As such, it infuriates me when I see all of the stupid shit done in the name of social justice. Get attention, sure; but once you have that attention, it's time to stop yelling and start explaining yourself.
The thing is the worst examples don't have good arguments they just have word salads where they corrupt the meaning of social science terms. They use social constructs to mean something is not real and artificially imposed by some hated outgroup. They use cultural relativism to mean that inmoral and illegal actions can be allowed when you are non-white. They try to use privilige as ad hominem to dismiss your argument. They use cultural relativism to reject reason and scienctific research as valid ways to address problems and inspect reality because it is part of the western imperialism. That kind of bullshit is what i oppose not sensible and evidence based discussions of racism. For example some months ago there was an excellent and very detailed report of group of cops who had white supremacist ideologies and conspired to plant drugs on black teens for years. Every claim of that report was backed up by evidence. They were true white supremacist with group meeting and the toxic rhetoric. And they did conspire to frame innocent black people because they were assumed to be criminals because they were black so even if they had nothing on them they planted it. The report had many of their private communication and other evidence to prove it. This is completely different to BLM people calling everyone and their dog white supremacists just because they do not bend the knee before their unreasonable angry selfs.
I would like to know more about this racially tense situation you describe. What exactly happened and what were you feeling and why?
I had never experienced racial tension until lately. Sorry, explaining it is long and painful. Fortunately, they're my new duplex neighbors. Those are the only type of neighbors I've wound up talking to in this neighborhood. It's like people tolerate each other around here on a door to door basis. People go through extremes here to deal with that constant reminder of death we surround ourselves with, adorning our fast environment with skull art. People are immersed in media culture. There are multiple "escapes" available. If you and your neighbor can agree on at least 1 escape route, there's a cultural connection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaN01VLYSQ
Quote from: mauricio on February 29, 2016, 10:51:59 PM
"People on this forum are offended by anything that is NOT white or male."
What does this even mean? If anything is demagoguery is this kind of meaningless tripe you write
Sorry, it didn't strike me that you don't understand the definition of demagoguery and cannot place the mainstream reaction in this forum in to the demographic picture of your country. Pretty much what we get here about every issue. Demagoguery is an appeal to people that plays on their
emotions and
prejudices rather than on their rational side. People here have natural prejudice and bias -like you- against racial and gender groups because they belong to
the standard which these groups raise their voices against.
Hence, we arrive back to the "Being offended by anything that is NOT white or male". It's the demographics of the forum. So demagoguery, in essence is supporting the mainstream ideas by appealing to the inherent differences and emotions here.
Quote from: mauricio on February 29, 2016, 10:49:56 PM
what are you talking about i always criticize hyperbole and try to find the valid points or get to the underlying concepts.
This is from a poster who treats SJW-MRA war exclusive to one culture like a crucial threat to human rights issue of humanity -by insulting women- and the main factor which determines feminism in the world overall.
Self awareness please. Intelectual honesty please.
QuoteThis has fuck all to do with offense. Offense is a meaningless thing to me i do not even know what being offended feels like. I just see things that are illogical, unreasonable, debatable or factually wrong and call bullshit.
This is all about offense and getting offended.
You have bought a 'product' (MRA) that gave you and identity and a side without any real life experience of any discrimination against your gender or race. The is the very reason that this just offensive to you, because without any real life exp IT'S A LEARNED BEHAVIOUR, LEARNED REACTION from a sold position. Again self made-self sold product. Pretty much explains the MRA movement and why it has to RELY ON SJWs and nothing independent actually producing something by itself.
AGAIN, if I SWJs magically disappeared from the face of the earth, there wouldn't be any MRAs left in due time. Will male issues cease to exist? NO. Didn't they exist before MRAs? YES. Can we seperate female-male issues from each other? NO. But for some reason it has always been dandy out there for our white boys until the annoying girls started to scream their head off.
It's about getting offended and annoyed by the general attack to the white het male; the standard. Which is perfectly natural and inevitable; had to-has to happen eventually AND that is what's happening.
QuoteYou are not addressing anything of what i have said.
Oh yes I have. You just don't agree with them and don't lke it. You skip entire posts of mine or tweak lines take them out of their context and pour down how you feel about them when you feel like it while I am trying explain what is my opinion to you or the reasoning behind it. All you are doing is describing how you feel. And all your reaction shows how offended you are wether you are aware of it or not. Tough.
QuoteBTW This "anti racist" groups like BLM are very much part of the whole SJW issue and they base alot of their "activism" on social media bullshit.
The only reason for you to see it that way could be that with your age and experience of online activism you only know SWJ-MRA dynamic and you live in it MRA identity; side which gives you a tunnel vision and provides a category for any kind of activism. Again, "a self made-self sold product". You bought the product and you are selling it yourself and others. And what you haven't bought just is the 'wrong product'. You don't like its marketing while you fell for the same marketing with your own.
How is it possible otherwise that you completely enjoy every offensive, hostile, hate spreading bullshit those MRAs vomit and make absurd excuses like 'you'll find genius in trash, oh he got better' just because you made it a part of your identity, but when it is about another issue that you cannot register the emotional part of it, it is suddenly so 'wrong' and angry reactions should be toned and call down. Pffft.
Islamic terrorism worked. Perfectly. Like a well oiled machine. I want to cry. There is a vicious cycle going on. I don't know who sees the connection in the big scale, refuses to see or enjoying to ignore. But it is there. Grinning to us with a huge rotten head full with maggots walking around everywhere among people.
Just at the time people need to side with a real left understanding, they are becoming more and more right wing and reacting in 'religious' terms. They are getting more entitled, more divided, more selfish and more violent in every level.
This probably will continue to a some sort of a peak I guess. But what can break a vicious cycle although one side not touched by anything but just getting steadily as fundamentally 'religious' -not talking about religion- as the other side I have no idea. A world war. What? Nobody is going to eliminate those terrorist groups until they stop being profitable and beneficial, so stop dreaming about that.
In a much bigger angle, while the secular white buying this bulllshit with apetite, (Same bullshit is going on here in a different way which you guys have no idea) Drumpf make so much 'sense' with his lot to me. This is their natural habitat. They'll thrive.
The sickening irony is that the whole thing looks like a freaking biblical parable!
I'm not feeling good. Seriously, with Drumpf on the rise...I am so scared.
Sometimes excitement over things we can't control gets to be too much. Take care of your health and happiness.
Meanwhile, throw another Christian to the lions, and poor me another glass of champagne ... the plebs are getting restless.
"This is from a poster who treats SJW-MRA war exclusive to one culture like a crucial threat to human rights issue of humanity -by insulting women- and the main factor which determines feminism in the world overall."
This is fucking rich coming from someone who has refused to discuss the fact that feminism is a word with no solid monolithic meaning but rather defined by their many different self identified members and their specific and different ideas. Like any other complex ideology. I have never fucking suggested SJW-MRA determine feminism in the world overalll. You are nothing but a liar otherwise you would actually quote me saying anything remotely near to that. But you cant because my position has always been one of nuance on how ideological labels work with multiplicity of meaning depending on contexts. If you say lies like this without even trying to back up your shit why should i consider you anything but a troll?
"
How is it possible otherwise that you completely enjoy every offensive, hostile, hate spreading bullshit those MRAs vomit and make absurd excuses like 'you'll find genius in trash, oh he got better'"
How is saying that people who spread thrash sometimes have valid points i support somehow a demonstration that i enjoy the thrash? It's the exact opposite. How the hell can't you not understand such as simple statements. Also i linked you a MRA who i said was actually pretty good and you had nothing to say about him, that's one of the only instances i can remember i said something positive about an MRA in this forum and I guess just because he calls himself MRA and i liked his speech therefore i must "completely enjoy every offensive, hostile, hate spreading bullshit those MRAs vomit". Do you even turn your brain when you type shit like that because that goes completely against the reality of our dicussions on this forums.
Hillariously you qualified my enjoyment of their bullshit as "completely" which is by fucking definition false since I'm making a dinstiction between their positions I do not agree and the ones I do agree with. So by fucking definition my enjoyment of their speech cannot be "completely" and "every". Jesus do you even understand the english language?
BTW on top of quoting me wrong you changed the context of my quote which is this
"Its called people expressing their opinions freely. You will get from genious to trash. You seem to be rather paranoid and too cynic to the point of irrationally dismissive of speech just because people want to actually convince you, like duh. Thats the whole point. It's your (royal you) responsability to sort out the gold nuggets from the trash."
And i was talking about pretty much everything, the entire free market of ideas. Not just MRA vloggers. It's fact that in the information stream of modern culture you must always try to find the valuable among the banal.
So basically you live in a delusional world where i'm faithful MRA that thinks SJW determine feminism. You only wish i was such a weak man of straw.
The way to fight racism is not with racism. Being racist against white people does not in any way help non-whites. You don't piss off the problem to make it go away. I know that might sound rational at first, but it's really quite stupid. Do you think you're going to go to a KKK rally, spout off some racist shit against whites and they're just going to say, "Hey! That was really hurtful. My God, is THAT what we've been doing to you all this time??? I am SO sorry!" Obviously that isn't happening.
So let's take it down a notch. What about going to a group of people who are not overtly racist. Do you think you're help or hurt your cause with them by being racist against whites? I'll give you a hint. This group of people is called "Republicans" and in response they coined the nonsense term "reverse racism".
So let's take it down another notch. What about people who don't think about race? Well now you got them thinking about race, don't you? So, the first time they thought about race, do you think they were like, "Hey, that black guy is all right"? Or was it more like, "What a dick! Fucking n%#$%$"?
So let's take it down another notch. What about people who actively try not to be racist? If a black guy gets in their face and tells them that they're personally responsible for slavery, never mind their family didn't even immigrate to America until long after it was over, is that going to win them over?
Being a racist is in no way fighting racism. It doesn't make me sympathize with you, it pisses me off. It doesn't make me want to help you, it makes me want to tell you to fuck off. Getting the blame for slavery for no other reason than the color of my skin, never mind my views on race or my family history, does not invoke positive feelings or the desire to help the one placing the blame. Is it "fair"? Well, yeah, if you're a racist moron. "White people" had and still have advantages. There is no doubt about this. But I didn't choose to be born white. This isn't a problem I invented or agree with. In fact racism against non-whites pisses me off even more than racism against whites because it is a so much bigger problem, not to mention my feelings get hurt, black kids get shot, big fucking difference there. But by being racist toward me, you're not making a point or getting your message across. You're just alienating me. Nothing more. I fucking hate Chris Rock. I think he's a racist piece of shit. I don't give a fuck what that prick thinks of me or what keeps him awake at nights. But if he weren't a racist prick, I'm sure I would listen to his message, sympathize with it and even want to do something about it. Instead, I want to not do whatever it is that dick bag wants me to do. It's instinctual. It's a natural reaction. When a wolf attacks a sheep the sheep's first response isn't to combat the negative stereotyping other sheep hold against wolves. When a person attacks me, my first response isn't to listen carefully to their concerns so that we can find a solution to the problems which incited them. That's just nature, not just human nature, but all of nature.
I'm still confused as to where any major group is institutionally being racist towards white people... other than maybe "Oh my god he said it in a way I didn't appreciate! I'M INSULTED YOU RACIST!"...
Quote from: Shiranu on March 02, 2016, 06:20:29 PM
I'm still confused as to where any major group is institutionally being racist towards white people... other than maybe "Oh my god he said it in a way I didn't appreciate! I'M INSULTED YOU RACIST!"...
You simply do not understand how humans work if you cannot understand how a black person could hold very strong racist prejudice towards a white person. This only gets fueled by bullshit rhetoric that distorts reality by pointing every problem as racially based when the facts are far from clear. Why do you think that in the BLM protest of the jamar clark shooting there were bricks and molotovs thrown into the minneapolis police precint, why do you think people who came in to record and witness the demonstrations were singled out as white supremacists because they were not part of the in-group some of them got beaten and chased as related by the BLM people themselves who apparently saw nothing wrong with their actions. Why so many of the BLM people sound super paranoid of police and imaginary white supremacists colluding to infiltrate them and hurt them when they have zero evidence of that. When the police has treated them really softly just letting them protest and break shit up in chicago for example without really confronting them just herding them around with no clashes. Usually this kind of activity gets you pepper sprayed and clubbed, but the police have been smart to not throw petrol on the fire, at least on those protests some months ago by the end of last year. I watched tons of hours of protests livestreams and did not see violent repression just a lot of paranoia, overreaction and assholery from BLM people. This kind of bullshit needs to stop, it does not matter if it is not institutional racism. It is irrational, racist , dangerous and unhelpful. BLM is not the group that will solve police brutality unless they mature, changed their tactics and stop collectivizing people on the basis of their race.
I saw all this before, in the 60s. It is deja vu all over again ;-(
We misuse words. If we limit racism to institutional racism ... then there isn't much anti-white racism in the US. There is plenty of individual racism against white folk ... and against everyone else. The US is an individualist racist society, not a collectivist racist society. What one thing whites don't get about colored folk, including Jewish folk ... is the tribalism. It is like being born into a labor union, and whites are all against unions, because they think they pulled their own ass from their mother's womb by their own boot straps (delusional shits that they are).
Personally I don't see doing much more for collective recompense ... for any large group of folks ... there are probably individuals who deserve it because of specific circumstances. The attempt of BlackLivesMatter to bring back the "100 acres and a mule" theory is laughable. And typically Latinos and Asians aren't seeking any handouts ... this is an African-American peculiarity ... fathered by bad D-party policies.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 02, 2016, 06:20:29 PM
I'm still confused as to where any major group is institutionally being racist towards white people... other than maybe "Oh my god he said it in a way I didn't appreciate! I'M INSULTED YOU RACIST!"...
I don't know about any "major group". I was talking about prominent individuals, such as Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan and Chris Rock. But if you want to see a major group show real hostility toward a white person I hear that any given white person can just go to a Louis Farrakhan event if they would like to be insulted throughout and fear for their lives. My old boss went to one hosted by his college. Being white, it was not a "comfortable" experience for him.
EDIT: I am not saying blacks don't have every right to be pissed off. They absolutely should be pissed off because, frankly, leaving it up to predominantly white politicians to fix it really hasn't gotten them far. And they need to be loud as hell about it. All I'm saying is, I didn't do it. My children are disgusted by the racism they see at the schools in our redneck community. It's not "white people" who are the problem. It's "racist white people" and I don't like being grouped with them any more than any random German would like being grouped with Nazis.
Jesse Jackson is just a jive opportunist. Louis Farrakhan is probably a murderer (of Malcolm X). These aren't good examples. But Black leadership, aside from Cornel West, has been terrible since MLK. Is Ted Nugent a typical White guy? I work with African-Americans, and they are mostly fine folks, at the same rate as the White Americans I work with. But none of them is famous, or a leader of the community ;-(
If you don't like "leaders" then don't follow the bastards. They thrive on your attention, even if it is fear of them.
I would no more go to a Louis Farrakhan rally, than a KKK rally ... your boss was not very bright. White people of a certain type are welcome at the NAACP ... but only sometimes ;-) But I don't think one would need to fear for one's life. I might get a little over excited if I had gone to one of those Promise Keepers rallies ... and not in a good way. Today White men don't wear bedsheets, they wear Izod shirts.
Quote from: Baruch on March 01, 2016, 06:59:35 AM
Sometimes excitement over things we can't control gets to be too much. Take care of your health and happiness.
I am having nightmares with high quality Holywood effects. It's disgusting and frightening, feels very long and vivid. A little while ago in my dream, there is a sense of 'We'; 'We' are running in masses towards one way from explosions, attacks, bloodshed all over, but I can't see what it is or who is attacking. 'We' is everyone I know and probbaly the civillian mass of people on earth in my mind I guess. 'We' arrive to a field. Danger has supposedly passed. People are walking around, laughing-eating going on their lives like nothing has happened or happening among burned out fields. It's dark in day time. Strange darkness. Not absencse of light. There are no corpses, but personal possessions of dead people scattered around. Like burnt clothes, shoes, bags. Like night dresses and evenning gowns and high heeled women shoes, pants, hats... Nobody removes them or even seem to see or bothered that they are all over the place.
There is an old child game here. Young adults are playing that game and singing the riddle song -lyrics changed weirdly- in a collective lifeless voice. I find that very strange and can't get what they are doing. (In the original game children sit crouching in a circle and someone becomes the it. He circles them with a handkerchief tied to a knot and tries to drop it at the behind of a player's back. If the player notice he chases the it and tries to sit down his place before getting caught etc...) A lot of other things happened for a 'long' time in the dream. One of the most vivid scene was a gold coloured high heeled sandal burned out. ?
It was the most disturbing nightmare I had. I woke up jumping in the middle of the night repeating 'Putin, Putin, Putin'. ? WTF?
My usual nightmare routine is trying to save people from becoming robots or some sort of 'zombies' -without the virus element- running around in empty streets at night barefeet, in my pjs. 'They' often catch me and convince me that 'nothing is wrong' and I jump up from my sleep. My nightmares got new eleborated plots.
I barely got used to the old series I have been having all my adult life. New ones are very exhausting and painful. Too realistic. No fantasy elements.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 05, 2016, 10:14:21 AM
Too realistic. No fantasy elements.
If dreams are going to show us our fears, they should at least entertain us.
I'm by no means an expert on race politics, but I would have thought fighting fire with fire doesn't tend to work, especially in matters of identity politics.
Quote from: Fidel_Castronaut on March 18, 2016, 07:31:53 PM
I'm by no means an expert on race politics, but I would have thought fighting fire with fire doesn't tend to work, especially in matters of identity politics.
Which is why Black leaders since MLK, have all been like General Powell. Uncle-Toms ... even the ones who seem to be opposed to government policies, are working for the government IMHO. Except for Cornel West. The anti-dis-establishment-arians need to have a few real opponents to make the fake opponents more realistic. You have Black shepherds for the Black-folk ... so they can dance to a different tune, but end up at the same destination as the White shepherds for the White-folk ... the abattoir of the wealthy and powerful. The thirst of the wealthy and powerful can never be slaked.
Real Black leaders would not only tell the truth, but put it in a way that is palatable for the White majority. This is how progress was made in the 60s.