http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/motorcycle-speeder-wins-180-000-in-case-against-cop-wh-1754583037
QuoteOn Aug. 3, 2012, Justin Wilkens was whipping his Aprilia motorcycle and unwittingly passed Oregon State Police officer Rob Edwards in an unmarked cop Camaro. After a few minutes of chase, Edwards rammed Wilkens off the bike, pulled a gun on him and kicked him in the chest. If you think that sounds egregious, the jury agreed with you.
Dashcam footage from Edwards’ Camaro shows Wilkens’ motorcycle running hard and fast on what the Register-Guard identifies as Crow Road near the town of Venta, Oregon. The bike is obviously speeding and passes at least two cars across double-yellow (no passing-zone) lines.
...Edwards chased him all the way to an intersection, at which point Wilkens appears to begin pulling over. Look at the biker’s body language at about 3:31; you can almost hear him saying “Ah, shit,†inside his helmet as he looks in the bike’s left mirror and realizes that’s a cop behind him.
As you can see from there; the police car hits the bike, knocking Wilkens to the ground. Edwards maintained this was unintentional; a result of “brake fade†from the Camaro’s discs being overworked. His assessment, not mine, which was basically shot down by Wilkens’ attorney.
As the biker stood up, Edwards enters frame with a kick to Wilkens’ chest while drawing down on him with his pistol before cuffing him.
Among Wilkens’ injuries were “a broken clavicle and fractured rib.â€
In an interesting plot twist, Edwards stated he did not know the police car’s dashcam was running.
...
Local news says Edwards has been an Oregon State Trooper for 22 years and held the rank of lieutenant when this incident went down, having since been promoted to captain.
3:30ish is where the incident starts.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ToxLcjsB--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/b1hmvxugzwza5hasqptw.gif)
This is getting fucking ridiculous. The police in this country think they can... and do... get away with anything they fucking want. He thought he wasn't being recorded so that is somehow an excuse for his actions? What the fuck.
The officer's "defense"...
QuoteSays he thought the biker was trying to elude him.
Did not realize his camera was running.
Had running lights but no siren.
Maintained his actions were “in line with state police policies and training.â€
Didn’t mean to ram the bike.
“Acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he ‘already had the muscles fired’ in his right leg.â€
He claims "brake fade" is why he rammed the bike... but at about 2 mph that should not be an issue.
How many LEO-citizen interactions each day? How many of them get reported like this?
Sorry, speeding and passing two cars in a no-passing zone basically endangering me and my family and think the punk should NOT get his ass kicked? Not me. Wish I was on the jury.
Quote from: aitm on January 23, 2016, 04:39:12 PM
Sorry, speeding and passing two cars in a no-passing zone basically endangering me and my family and think the punk should NOT get his ass kicked? Not me. Wish I was on the jury.
Hi, I have been reading your posts for some time now. From the general reactions you have been giving to certain topics, I gathered that we might be living in the same part of the world.
However, mass shootings are rare where I live, we don't know any school shootings and police brutality mostly breaks out in mass protests.
Are you living somewhere close to the Middle East too?
Quote from: aitm on January 23, 2016, 04:39:12 PM
Sorry, speeding and passing two cars in a no-passing zone basically endangering me and my family and think the punk should NOT get his ass kicked? Not me. Wish I was on the jury.
I'm glad you're not on the jury.
Secretly a Warsie.
Aaaannndddd thats why we have to have warning labels on knives.
Quote from: aitm on January 23, 2016, 04:39:12 PM
Sorry, speeding and passing two cars in a no-passing zone basically endangering me and my family and think the punk should NOT get his ass kicked? Not me. Wish I was on the jury.
After he was pulled over, he was no longer endangering anyone. What reason is there to kick his ass then? Sadism, perhaps, but little else.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 23, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
This is getting fucking ridiculous. The police in this country think they can... and do... get away with anything they fucking want.
Getting ridiculous? When wasn't it? Its been that way since way before your daddy was born.
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 05:24:36 PM
Getting ridiculous? When wasn't it? Its been that way since way before your daddy was born.
So I'll ask you then, how many interactions between LEOs and civilian on a given day in the US? How many get reported in the media? Which ones?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 23, 2016, 05:29:33 PM
So I'll ask you then, how many interactions between LEOs and civilian on a given day in the US? How many get reported in the media? Which ones?
How many in a day? A metric shit ton I'm guessing. How many get reported in the media? An incredibly small fraction of a percent.
If you feel that my post was suggesting that all cops are bad, or even most cops were bad, well then I guess I should have been more clear.
My words meant exactly what they said. That for nearly as long as we've had any form of police in this country, we've had some portion which abused their position in some way shape or form. Doesn't mean they're all bad. Doesn't mean most are bad. Does mean bad cops are not at all anything new.
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 05:41:16 PM
How many in a day? A metric shit ton I'm guessing. How many get reported in the media? An incredibly small fraction of a percent.
If you feel that my post was suggesting that all cops are bad, or even most cops were bad, well then I guess I should have been more clear.
My words meant exactly what they said. That for nearly as long as we've had any form of police in this country, we've had some portion which abused their position in some way shape or form. Doesn't mean they're all bad. Doesn't mean most are bad. Does mean bad cops are not at all anything new.
"A metric shit ton I'm guessing." Yeah, you're guessing. Based on media hype.
Yeah I was guessing. Didn't think it was all that important to seek out an exact number for the purposes of this discussion. If was mistaken about that or anything else, please feel free to correct me.
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 06:05:41 PM
Yeah I was guessing. Didn't think it was all that important to seek out an exact number for the purposes of this discussion. If was mistaken about that or anything else, please feel free to correct me.
Well, I'd say your off by several orders of magnitude on your SWAG there. But if you're good with that, so be it.
However, do you have the balls to test yourself? Can you take the statements you made about cops and replace "cop" with "black" or "Hispanic" and evaluate the result?
It seems pretty clear you have a problem with the statements that have been made. How'za 'bout instead of nitpicking my posts back and forth and making vague statements, you instead save us all a lot of time and just state plainly and clearly exactly what it is you think on this topic?
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 07:09:29 PM
It seems pretty clear you have a problem with the statements that have been made. How'za 'bout instead of nitpicking my posts back and forth and making vague statements, you instead save us all a lot of time and just state plainly and clearly exactly what it is you think on this topic?
You've already had my position, claims of the number of negative LEO/civilian interfaces is wildly exaggerated in comparison with the number of LEOs in the country.
I notice you didn't take my challenge. You don't have to, I don't mean to cause pain.
What exactly are you looking for here? I didn't take your challenge because I don't see the point of it. Anyone who finds himself being 'black' or 'hispanic' never had a choice in the matter. I don't know of anyone who was born being a cop so I fail to see how one has anything at all to do with the other.
But I'll be your huckleberry. There are a metric shit ton of people who are black and who are hispanic. Bad examples of each have been around since the either group existed. Therefore bad examples of each are nothing new.
There you go. Now smugly enlighten us to what point you think you've now proven.
"Not all cops are bad, therefor we should not make an issue out of the cops that are bad (that are costing people their lives) and abusing their power!"
Yeah. Fuck that and cry me a river.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 23, 2016, 07:57:18 PM
"Not all cops are bad, therefor we should not make an issue out of the cops that are bad (that are costing people their lives) and abusing their power!"
Yeah. Fuck that and cry me a river.
Who said that, please?
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 07:39:52 PM
What exactly are you looking for here? I didn't take your challenge because I don't see the point of it. Anyone who finds himself being 'black' or 'hispanic' never had a choice in the matter. I don't know of anyone who was born being a cop so I fail to see how one has anything at all to do with the other.
But I'll be your huckleberry. There are a metric shit ton of people who are black and who are hispanic. Bad examples of each have been around since the either group existed. Therefore bad examples of each are nothing new.
There you go. Now smugly enlighten us to what point you think you've now proven.
I see the characterizations have started. Is there a reason for that?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 23, 2016, 08:11:28 PM
Really? When all you can ever say is, "No no no it's just an issue made by the media, it's not bad, how many cops are good!" any time police brutality is ever mentioned... it's hard to think you care about police brutality being an issue. If you did you wouldn't only offer excuse after excuse about how "it's not as bad as it's portrayed!".
Just like you aren't actually saying that... no one is saying there aren't good cops. What is being said is that too many police departments filled with good cops allow this shit to happen and cover for their own... and that this happens in every state with way too much damn frequency. It's like pointing out that Blackwater did some really fucked up shit in Iraq, and someone coming in every time and saying, "No no no Blackwater is just being persecuted by the media, it's not an issue, how many Blackwater employees DIDN'T shoot and then piss on innocent civilians!". That's about the level of "serious" you can be taken as when that is all you offer.
Btw; this one wasn't covered by the MSM. If you want I can start spamming cases that were never covered. And of course the media isn't going to report on cops actually
DOING THEIR FUCKING JOB, just like they don't bring cameras to my work place and record me. But if I was to snap and slam a customers face into the counter and shoot him because "I didn't realise there were cameras on me"... yeah, I think the fucking media would come. That isn't the media being bigoted towards cashiers no more than doing the same for cops that break the law is being bigoted against cops. Edit: And if this was something that happened with frequency amongst cashiers and the companies covered it up every chance they got... and if cashiers were people meant to protect the people.
I'm glad you found someone acceptable to hate.
You really can see the 'oh shit' moment in the video. The guy did not know the cop was behind him, and i find it hard to believe knocking him off his bike was an accident.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 23, 2016, 08:34:12 PM
I'm glad you found someone acceptable to hate.
What a contribution... just like every other post in these threads you make.
I'm glad you found threads where you can snark off and act like you know jack shit and feel it's acceptable.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on January 23, 2016, 08:56:27 PM
You really can see the 'oh shit' moment in the video.
Ah… in the old days..back in the mid 70's when cops were pigs, I could see the guy easily say, "fucking pigs". Hey….I am sure it's a generational thing. I am sure your version is right…."golly dang, I didn't even realize I was speeding and passing in a no passing lane cause…golly gee…I…mean…golly gee…"
Quote from: aitm on January 23, 2016, 09:46:19 PM
Ah… in the old days..back in the mid 70's when cops were pigs, I could see the guy easily say, "fucking pigs". Hey….I am sure it's a generational thing. I am sure your version is right…."golly dang, I didn't even realize I was speeding and passing in a no passing lane cause…golly gee…I…mean…golly gee…"
So... that makes police brutality okay?
Quote from: Shiranu on January 23, 2016, 10:01:24 PM
So... that makes police brutality okay?
Well yes, everyone knows that prejudices are automatically wrong and have no basis in reality. Please pay no attention to the beating on the video.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 23, 2016, 10:01:24 PM
So... that makes police brutality okay?
I'll let ya know when I see it.
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 05:41:16 PM
How many in a day? A metric shit ton I'm guessing. How many get reported in the media? An incredibly small fraction of a percent.
If you feel that my post was suggesting that all cops are bad, or even most cops were bad, well then I guess I should have been more clear.
My words meant exactly what they said. That for nearly as long as we've had any form of police in this country, we've had some portion which abused their position in some way shape or form. Doesn't mean they're all bad. Doesn't mean most are bad. Does mean bad cops are not at all anything new.
Since you won't suggest it, I will. Most cops are bad.
My reasoning is that cops should be held to a higher standard than non-cops. And my reasoning is that a good cop actively arrests bad cops. Truly bad cops might be a minority, but truly good one - the ones that arrest bad ones - are also a minority and are generally run off the force. The rest, who don't arrest the bad ones, are accomplices and therefore bad as well.
"Your honor, I didn't kill the teller while robbing the bank. I only drove the get-away car."
The only lesson I have learned is that the biker had the better lawyer.
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on January 23, 2016, 10:06:07 PM
Since you won't suggest it, I will. Most cops are bad.
My reasoning is that cops should be held to a higher standard than non-cops. And my reasoning is that a good cop actively arrests bad cops. Truly bad cops might be a minority, but truly good one - the ones that arrest bad ones - are also a minority and are generally run off the force. The rest, who don't arrest the bad ones, are accomplices and therefore bad as well.
I would not commit career suicide simply so I could remove one bad example from my chosen field. Therefore I would not expect anyone else to do so. If that makes me a bad person in your book, so be it.
Hey, before this turns into some kind of a shit storm, let me suggest that this is far more of a generational thing than you realize. When some of us were kids we were beat for endangering our life, but to endanger someone else's life? Whoa, that was far more than a beating. It was a berating of all things moral….and a beating.
When someone today endangers other people, many of us "old timers" fully believe they should have their asses beat. I don't care who does the beating. I can't do it anymore. When some jack ass endangers my grandkid I can tell you that is why I don't carry a gun…I have no compassion for fucktards that endanger the lives of others so….in the video when he starts zipping between cars and jumping lanes and scarying the fuck out of people? Yeah, fuck him… some one should kick his ass.
If y'all want to go around beating your family members or someone else ... have at it, but leave me alone. I reduce my odds of taking a beating from a cop et al, by the usual methods. Doesn't matter what my rights are ... I don't believe anyone has any rights. It is you vs the other guy ... and you do what you can to de-escalate, or you escalate and takes your chances. If you choose wrong, you end up dead, with a weapon that isn't yours next to your dead body. Unless you were stupid enough to be carrying a weapon, in which case you saved the cop the effort to borrow something form the evidence locker. And no, people usually don't turn their coworkers in ... whistleblowers in all lines of work are despised, no matter what kind of shit is going down.
Watch the video. Were I that police officer- and being a long time motorcyclist, though not currently- I would be upset by his behavior. But the cop over reacted. Had the incident not gotten videotaped, it would have been he said she said and gone nowhere.
So a cop over reacted to a situation because he was pissed. for a police officer that probably happens a dozen times a day. Like I said in the past I worked with cops. I don't like cops because a segment of them are bullies who abuse their authority, but that one fact does not label all cops as bad or that this cop is excessively brutal, but that he over reacted in a situation.
summary: the motorcyclist had the better lawyer. Now everybody relax.
Yes, I think we can assume that the cop was momentarily over the top angry, and not part of a vast Right wing conspiracy.
I'm not sure if there is a standard whereas cop is tasked with administering 'justice' on the spot and being allowed to bypass the entire criminal justice system just because someone has done something really stupid. Last time I checked we have the courts and jails as a method of administering justice. Hey, I get it, cop gets pissed off and wants to be judge, jury and executionor and from everything that I understand about the criminal justice system is that when the cop takes justice into his own hands he then becomes the criminal and should be held accountable. Otherwise we should just get rid of police altogether and let the biggest person decided what's justice and what isn't.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 24, 2016, 10:15:22 AM
I'm not sure if there is a standard whereas cop is tasked with administering 'justice' on the spot and being allowed to bypass the entire criminal justice system just because someone has done something really stupid. Last time I checked we have the courts and jails as a method of administering justice. Hey, I get it, cop gets pissed off and wants to be judge, jury and executionor and from everything that I understand about the criminal justice system is that when the cop takes justice into his own hands he then becomes the criminal and should be held accountable. Otherwise we should just get rid of police altogether and let the biggest person decided what's justice and what isn't.
That is what we do have ... the biggest person is often the cop (damn those donuts) ... or the one with the baddest attitude problem. The courts only get involved afterward, to make everything much more delayed and expensive ... lawyers gotta eat y'know.
Quote from: Johan on January 23, 2016, 10:47:43 PMI would not commit career suicide simply so I could remove one bad example from my chosen field. Therefore I would not expect anyone else to do so. If that makes me a bad person in your book, so be it.
Why is it career suicide to remove criminals from your ranks?
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on January 24, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
Why is it career suicide to remove criminals from your ranks?
You have to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that.
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on January 24, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
Why is it career suicide to remove criminals from your ranks?
Because while the criminals are a minority, the majority are enablers, and the enablers will remove you for being a "shit-disturber."
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 24, 2016, 12:28:06 PM
Because while the criminals are a minority, the majority are enablers, and the enablers will remove you for being a "shit-disturber."
See? Told ya.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 24, 2016, 12:38:24 PM
See? Told ya.
Doesn't require a conspiracy theory to come to that conclusion. You see that behavior pretty much anywhere you have a large number of people who know each other. Police departments are pretty big, so it is not hard to imagine the same problem cropping up independently across multiple of them.
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 24, 2016, 12:59:53 PM
Doesn't require a conspiracy theory to come to that conclusion. You see that behavior pretty much anywhere you have a large number of people who know each other. Police departments are pretty big, so it is not hard to imagine the same problem cropping up independently across multiple of them.
Secretly a Warsie.
"Imagine" being an important word there. I'm seeing great thundering herds of confirmation bias in this topic everywhere on the Net.
One cop having a bad day does not make an entire police force corrupt. But this is the reason I'm not a cop because if I saw some pinhead doing on a motorcycle what that guy did, It is possible I'd react the same way. In any case it is one incident, the problem was settled and I don't understand why some of you need to elevate this to some kind of overall statement about cops, which it isn't. Maybe the cop is unfit and needs to be looked at. And maybe somebody needs to explain to mr. motorcyclist not to behave in that manner.
You people got too much time on your hands. Get a hobby.
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on January 24, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
Why is it career suicide to remove criminals from your ranks?
It is a target rich environment. In my understanding, almost all adults are criminals ... and I am one also, as I have mentioned before. Shoe was responsible for my satori ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 24, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
It is a target rich environment. In my understanding, almost all adults are criminals ... and I am one also, as I have mentioned before. Shoe was responsible for my satori ;-)
Don't bring Satori into this, she has enough on her plate without being part of a criminal investigation.
(http://www.renders-graphics.com/image/upload/normal/16389754Satori_Komeiji_touhou.png)
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 24, 2016, 12:28:06 PM
Because while the criminals are a minority, the majority are enablers, and the enablers will remove you for being a "shit-disturber."
That seems like an undesirable situation that probably ought to change.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 24, 2016, 09:19:23 PM
That seems like an undesirable situation that probably ought to change.
It is easy….make being a police officer less dangerous. Demand that criminals surrender immediately.
Quote from: Baruch on January 24, 2016, 07:16:23 PMIt is a target rich environment. In my understanding, almost all adults are criminals ... and I am one also, as I have mentioned before. Shoe was responsible for my satori ;-)
I am familiar with the content of "Three Felonies a Day", but that doesn't excuse the police who cover up for real and legitimate sleazebags in their ranks.
When I say a good cop goes after a bad cop, I'm not talking about those who break some obscure innocuous law, and you know that. "Gee you bought a guitar that was made from imported wood that we don't have an import treaty with, you are a criminal." No. I'm referring to real crimes as you well know, such as assault, murder, theft, rape, etc.
Quote from: aitm on January 24, 2016, 09:27:13 PMIt is easy….make being a police officer less dangerous. Demand that criminals surrender immediately.
I'm not following you. Ethics on the job is a bust unless the job is safe? (Can the job ever truly be safe?)
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 24, 2016, 09:58:38 PM
I'm not following you. Ethics on the job is a bust unless the job is safe? (Can the job ever truly be safe?)
To be fair, even bakers have people shooting at them on a daily basis if the donuts are too crispy eh? We in construction are familiar with dangers but we don't normally have people shooting at us….so…you know….ethics is easy when no one is trying to kill you.
Quote from: aitm on January 24, 2016, 10:03:19 PM
To be fair, even bakers have people shooting at them on a daily basis if the donuts are too crispy eh? We in construction are familiar with dangers but we don't normally have people shooting at us….so…you know….ethics is easy when no one is trying to kill you.
I don't think you need armchair ethics to tell you that kicking an unarmed man off a motorcycle is uncalled for, especially if he's not making a concerted effort to get away.
Plus, as Shiranu pointed out, this sort of behavior wouldn't be acceptable for a cashier, no matter the situation. How then, is in acceptable for a cop?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 24, 2016, 10:10:43 PM
I don't think you need armchair ethics to tell you that kicking an unarmed man off a motorcycle is uncalled for, especially if he's not making a concerted effort to get away.
It is, however, incredibly difficult to think that people who would kick unarmed people off motorcycles should be arrested.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 24, 2016, 09:19:23 PM
That seems like an undesirable situation that probably ought to change.
If that's the actual situation I would agree.
If the police could be reminded that they're part of the executive branch, the judicial branch might be allowed to make the 1st cut, as allowed in our holy constitution.
(http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12804137.jpg)
Sith-uation normal, all Jar-Jar up ;-)