Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/-IchGuL501U
Well said.
Very well said, and very refreshing to the constant narrative of, "It's 100% Islam, nothing else can be to blame!" that right-wingers want to saturate us with.
It's amazing how easy it is to turn a human being violent and to hate if you appear to be an authority.
Why there are not equal numbers of "extremists" from other religious groups or from people with no religion?
Is poverty and ignorance only exist in Islam? If so, why?
He doesn't say.
26201 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
The world has transferred over $20 Trillion (OPEC) for oil since the 70s, also many $$$ billions in "aid" to Muslim countries.
What happened to all that wealth?
and this? (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/islamic-state-the-ransoms-oil-and-looted-banks-that-have-made-isis-the-15bn-threat-it-is-9712783.html), or this? (http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/Financing-of-the-terrorist-organisation-ISIL.pdf)
He doesn't say.
QuoteIs poverty and ignorance only exist in Islam? If so, why?
He doesn't say.
And the award for, "Clearly Did Not Watch A Minute Of The Video But Am Commenting On It Anways!" goes to...
OK, I have watched the video in full.
My question still stand:
Why there are not equal numbers of "extremists" from other religious groups or from people with no religion?
Only Islam teaches world domination to it's adherents by warfare.
QuoteWhy there are not equal numbers of "extremists" from other religious groups or from people with no religion?
Take a look at the most violent countries in the world, and tell me how far down you have to scroll before you find a Muslim country other than Turkmenistan (I'll give you a hint, it's in the upper-70s, and it's a war torn country).
Have you seen what drug lords in Mexico, Colombia, Brasil, Venezuela, etc. etc. do? They make ISIS look like a bunch of little bitches, who would piss themselves and go crying home to their mommies the moment they had to face the barbarianism of a Zeta gangster.
I really wonder how intentionally ignorant you can continue to play before it subliminally slips through your mind that, "Oh, shit, I'm being a complete idiot!".
QuoteWhy only Islam teaches world domination to it's adherents by warfare?
History; seriously, go open up ANY history book... read like... 5 pages... then come back and read that quote again and laugh with the rest of us at just how stupid that was.
Shir, I gave you a clue:
Only Islam teaches world domination to it's adherents by warfare.
It would help if you read the Quran and hadiths.
History books? Well, how about the History of Islam?
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims: (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Legacy-Jihad-Islamic-Holy-Non-Muslims/dp/1591026024/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1435214712&sr=1-1&keywords=the+legacy+of+jihad)
QuoteThis book reveals how, for well over a millennium and across three continents - Asia, Africa, and Europe - non-Muslims who were vanquished by jihad wars became forced tributaries (called dhimmi in Arabic) in lieu of being slain. Under the dhimmi religious caste system, non-Muslims were subjected to legal and financial oppression, as well as social isolation. Extensive primary and secondary source materials, many translated here for the first time into English, are presented, making clear that jihad conquests were brutal, imperialist advances, which spurred waves of Muslims to expropriate a vast expanse of lands and subdue millions of indigenous peoples. Finally, the book examines how jihad war, as a permanent and uniquely Islamic institution, ultimately regulates the relations of Muslims with non-Muslims to this day. Scholars, educators, and interested lay readers will find this collection an invaluable resource
K.
I do realize that I have a problem.
I lack the cultural Marxist indoctrination of the American universities that is so prevalent in the US education.
Maybe then I would be more understanding towards Islam.
As it is, I understand Islam as it is in reality, not as I would like it to be.
btw, it is not extremism. It is jihad, or holy war. Surprise, it has a religious / political motive.
QuoteI lack the cultural Marxist indoctrination of the American universities that is so prevalent in the US education.
10/10, I actually laughed out loud. No exaggeration, that actually got a healthy chuckle out of me.
Cultural Marxist... that's what Pat Buchanan, Gamergaters and Brevik use to justify their bigotry. A concept that was created for racists, sexists and homophobes to say, "Colleges are teaching our kids that homosexuality and niggers are okay, and that wemen and wetbacks should have rights, and that is imposing on my freedom of speech!!!".
See, this is why I continue... just when I think you cant come up with something more radical and outlandish, you do!
I thank you though; the more I look at this "cultural marxism", the funnier it gets. It's the gift that keeps on giving!
It was founded by... THE JEWWWWWSSSS!!!!... during WW2, and that THE JEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWSSSSS!!!! are intentionally trying to bring down Western civilization by promoting sexual promiscuity and racial tolerance.
This is brilliant. You wouldn't happen to be a Scientology as well, or maybe believe that the government is run by shape-shifting lizard men would you? Because that would just make my night.
Edit: Don't get me wrong though, I realise you are a product of your culture :P, so I hold nothing against you.
QuoteEdit: Don't get me wrong though, I realise you are a product of your culture :P, so I hold nothing against you.
We both are.
Anyone thinks differently from you is not necessarely mad.
Quote from: pr126 on June 25, 2015, 03:48:35 AM
We both are.
Fair enough. But to give a serious response to what you said about cultural marxism, even assuming it's the truth; I grew up in an anti-black, anti-homo, anti-non-Christian family in a region that is predominately similar. I "learned" to be tolerant from not wanting to end up white trash like 90% of the people I grew up around.
The culture I grew up in was 20 minutes out of a town with, in my youth, 3,000 or so people or so. Nearly 20% of the youth are bellow the poverty line, and a very low graduation rate (in my class, there were about 100-something Freshman and by graduation it was about 50). I know 6 people from my town who went to college, the rest stayed in town to work in the oil fields, farms or gas stations.
We were ranked one of the worst schools in the nations (also, just about 25 minutes away from the town that had the most teenage pregnancies in the nation 2 years in a row!), and I'm going to be honest; 99% of people from there have never met a Muslim in their life nor have the slightest clue about anything about them other than they did 9/11 and deserve to be deported and nuked.
I can only speak for a certain region of the United States, but cultural marxism is not a thing in the rural south at least, and that is the culture I am (unfortunately) born into. My "tolerance" of Islam (and basically any minority) comes from seeing how hateful and xenophobic my culture was and rejecting it (and being rejected by it because I am not "white", and even worse I am mixed, unlike any of the other white people, who made up 84% of the population).
So product of my culture, yes; but my strong opinions on the subject are not because they are the norm, but because I myself have been a minor victim of minority prejudice, but even worse was growing up knowing it was wrong and buying into it for awhile and seeing just how harmful it can be.
Edit: And I guess to an extent that will answer your question, Pickled, if you browse this thread, as to why I don't just shut up when I disagree with someone. That was unintentional to address that, but I guess it works out. I say when I disagree with stuff because I've seen the harm of just nodding your head and staying silent about something you disagree with.
I grew up and educated in a communist country, in pure Stalinism.
Islam is just another totalitarian, fascist oppressive ideology.
Quote from: pr126 on June 25, 2015, 04:21:44 AM
I grew up and educated in a communist country, in pure Stalinism.
Islam is just another totalitarian, oppressive ideology.
I see where you are coming from, but it's the same thing that could be said (and WAS said, over and over and over again, even to this day) of socialism.
Moderate Islam has worked, is working, in-so-much as moderate Christianity works in places like Venezuela, Colombia, Brasil, etc. . Islam can be tempered down and changed, because it HAS been tempered down and changed. Just because it's Holy Book says it can't doesn't mean it cant... otherwise I wouldn't have sold food to three Muslims who came into my store Monday, or know a Muslim who drinks alcohol. And we wouldn't have countries like Turkey or Iran (pre-U.S.-overthrowing-of-secular-government) that are 95%+ Muslim but embrace a secular government and don't practice their Islam at all like the radical clerics in Saudi Arabia preach.
Political Islam can change and/or fall just as any other political entity can. In an "ideal world", Islam wouldn't exist... nor would Christianity or Judaism or sexism or racism. But it does, and throwing the baby out with the bathwater will never convince moderates that they have a chance to make changes, or that we will support them in making changes.
From the outside looking in, there would be no hope of the culture I grew up in ever changing. It stayed the same for hundreds of years. But slowly and surely it is changing, and that is driving the radicals in it to more radical positions and yelling louder and louder. But they are losing, and that is all we can hope for from Islam; it will never go away, it will either swing in our favour, or towards radicalism. These are the only two possible out comes. So given this, the only logical answer is to promote moderation in any way, shape, or form... not to constantly tear all them down and tell them it's impossible they will change, that they are hopeless barbarians who will never learn. That is not what changed my culture, and it won't be what will change theirs.
Let me put it in capital letters for you:
THERE IS NO MODERATE ISLAM. Islam is islam, they all read the same book! Please understand that.
Islam cannot be reformed.
I have said it in this thread that holy war (jihad) is the core teaching of Islam.
Besides, we cannot wait hundreds of years for Islam to "mellow".
Not with the WMDs available today.
Or do you think they, the "extremist" will just pack up their toys and go back to sleep?
Not a chance.
You wrote:
QuoteIslam can be tempered down and changed, because it HAS been tempered down and changed.
Yes, you are right. But Islam can be tempered down only by
superior force. See Kemal Ataturk, in Turkey, he did not use words like "please, if you don't mind". No he used brutal force, executing clerics, an iron fist to make it happen. Ended the Caliphate.
It has worked for a while. Now, Erdogan is reversing that process.
The Turkish Military has "cleaned out" Islamist take over a few times, but Erdogan has removed those officers since from the Army.
Anyhow, the only thing keeps Islam "docile" is superior force.
Nothing else works.
Two words: North Korea. Pure brutality and fanaticism. Hell-bent on world domination, according to their doctrine of Juche, but thankfully severely lacking in resources.
Not an iota of Islam.
There are no moderate religions. There are only moderate people, who cherry pick the parts they want, or go by all the teachings.
Quote from: pr126 on June 25, 2015, 04:48:02 AMTHERE IS NO MODERATE ISLAM.
Islam is islam, they all read the same book!
Yes, there is moderate Islam, and I know many moderate Muslims. I've met liberal Muslims who drink liquor and eat pork.
Yes, sure they read the same book, but like Christians, they interpret it in wildly different ways.
pe126 - love your avatar/icon ... yes, political Islam today is another system of dictatorship (see Egypt).
Atheon - love your avatar/icon ... new, or am I senile? Both? Nous sommes d'accord?
The first problem is the deceit of words. Islam, is it Prophet Muhammad? Is it Caliph Umar? Is it Caliph Ali? In the first 100 years of desert revolution, it came in more than one form. Under Caliph Umar in particular, it is just another imperialism. Under Caliph Ali it is a monarchy. Under Prophet Muhammad, it is Che Guevara on steroids.
I agree that notions of Islamic reform are questionable and unlikely. Best to keep them at a distance (sorry Europe, but you have always been the front line, along with India). And I agree that there are individual Muslims who are civilized. Best to encourage them. I prefer to be civilized, but if I were one of them, I would treat y'all as enemies to be killed, in a war that started at least as early as 634 under Caliph Umar. Though this isn't technically in the Quran, it is justified by twisted quotes out of the Quran, same as others twist quotes out of the Bible.
But why no mention of the three elephants in the room ... that the US and Saudi Arabia have been in cahoots since 1944 ... and GB and Arab quislings since 1914 ... though both countries have been involved in war in the Middle East since the Napoleonic Wars, and the English relationship goes back to the Crusades (mostly Norman folks, not real English). Modern Islamic extremism was encouraged and resisted by the Soviet Union, and encouraged resisted by the US. In the Cold War the stakes were the survival of the world, with both sides willing to exterminate humanity ... what happened in the Middle East was only tactical ... though Israel has a lot to answer for as well. In 1973 the world almost went mushroom cloud over the Yom Kippur war. And the heightened tensions in Jerusalem/Hebron in 1984 nearly escalated as well. The fact is, the US, Israel and Russia ... encourage militant Islam ... usually as Dark Ops.
Quote from: pr126 on June 25, 2015, 02:10:37 AM
OK, I have watched the video in full.
My question still stand:
Why there are not equal numbers of "extremists" from other religious groups or from people with no religion?
Only Islam teaches world domination to it's adherents by warfare.
I wonder how this professor would explain the gang problem in this country? Would those same points hold? Are the young men in this country subverted into gangs using the same points, only with different names, as the religious extremists ? One of the big reasons for gangs that I've noticed is a sense of belonging. I would imagine that goes for the extremists as well.
I think humans make a huge mistake making things about labels instead of thinking in terms of human psychology that leads people to get violent for any reason.
Why did the Columbine killers do what they did? It was a cheap and horrible way of getting attention. The reasons for such can vary but still amounts to a disenfranchisement sense of not belonging and or lacking some sense of power in ones own life.
It amounts to acting out because of a psychological sense of expressing pain in your own life. Religious violence is simply a political justification for the same acting out.
The more humans seek to understand behavior, good or bad, as evolutionary, the more we can reduce the risk of violence done for any reason. When you act out in violence you are expressing your own insecurities in an attempt to fill that gap. It can be for any reason, personal or ideological or mental illness.
But as far as religion, any religion, I am talking about the idea itself as a human invented concept in our species history. Form several groups and there will be competition. Understand it in these terms you can see what is really going on. It is our tribal behavior in evolutionary terms. Sell that utopia to enough people in a climate where they feel disenfranchised, any individual of any religion, has the potential to act out in violence, and will do so unfortunately thinking they are a hero to their plight.
Religious tribalism is political, but people join religions and defend them for the same reasons someone might joint a street gang. The same reason people can worship nationalism, and or political parties.
Quote from: Brian37 on June 25, 2015, 09:42:01 AM
I think humans make a huge mistake making things about labels instead of thinking in terms of human psychology that leads people to get violent for any reason.
Why did the Columbine killers do what they did? It was a cheap and horrible way of getting attention. The reasons for such can vary but still amounts to a disenfranchisement sense of not belonging and or lacking some sense of power in ones own life.
It amounts to acting out because of a psychological sense of expressing pain in your own life. Religious violence is simply a political justification for the same acting out.
The more humans seek to understand behavior, good or bad, as evolutionary, the more we can reduce the risk of violence done for any reason. When you act out in violence you are expressing your own insecurities in an attempt to fill that gap. It can be for any reason, personal or ideological or mental illness.
But as far as religion, any religion, I am talking about the idea itself as a human invented concept in our species history. Form several groups and there will be competition. Understand it in these terms you can see what is really going on. It is our tribal behavior in evolutionary terms. Sell that utopia to enough people in a climate where they feel disenfranchised, any individual of any religion, has the potential to act out in violence, and will do so unfortunately thinking they are a hero to their plight.
Religious tribalism is political, but people join religions and defend them for the same reasons someone might joint a street gang. The same reason people can worship nationalism, and or political parties.
I completely agree. With a lot of these conflicts and behaviors the details are different but broadly speaking the underlying psychology is the same.
The crusades caused hell.
Crusades ... massacres of Muslim and Jewish women and children ... and Coptic Christians in Egypt (they didn't speak the language). At one point in Syria, cannibalism against one village. We have forgotten, but the Syrians have not. No different than during the Roman invasions.