(First off to avoid confusion I am atheist) Of all the groups of people I have encountered, I have never met anyone who was gay or Mormon that I did not like. They are both some of the nicest thoughtful people I have ever met. Coincidently they are also two of the most persecuted groups. Does being persecuted make people more nice?
You do understand that mormons persecute gays right?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345551/
I also resent the stereotype that all gays are nice people like we're a fucking ice-cream flavor.
Ever here of Ronnie Kray?
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 28, 2015, 03:36:23 PMCoincidently they are also two of the most persecuted groups.
Mormons are frowned upon by evangelicals (part of an exceedingly long list) and thought a little kooky by the general public. Gays get bullied, disowned by their families, sometimes even murdered simply for being gay. In some countries, homosexuality is criminalized. And in a few of those, homosexuality is punishable by death.
So...there's a slight difference. Just a tad.
I feel the same way, but the Mormons I knew were ex Mormons and atheist. I have met women's libbers who hated men, but my best lover was an androgynous plural sex advocate, which I think I am also, but never experienced it. To each their own. :biggrin2: Solitary
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 04:24:38 PM
I also resent the stereotype that all gays are nice people like we're a fucking ice-cream flavor.
Could I possibly get you to be a jerk to my girlfriend? She seems to be convinced that all gay men are like Jack from Will and Grace or something. You know the stereotypical effeminate homosexual man; kind, energetic, quircky, up to date in fashion and a girls' best friend.
Whenever she says something like 'I like gays they are just so cute and cheery' I think to myself and often say to her; 'Do you know how wrong that is of you to say?'
I love my girlfriend, but sometimes she relies too much on stereotypes and media-portrayals in her deciphering of the world.
And I know; I'm an ass for bitching about this. It's just that no-one I know seems to agree with me.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 28, 2015, 04:48:34 PM
Could I possibly get you to be a jerk to my girlfriend? She seems to be convinced that all gay men are like Jack from Will and Grace or something. You know the stereotypical effeminate homosexual man; kind, energetic, quircky, up to date in fashion and a girls' best friend.
Whenever she says something like 'I like gays'; they are just so cute and cheery I think to myself and often say to her; 'Do you know how wrong that is of you to say?'
I love my girlfriend, but sometimes she relies too much on stereotypes and media-portrayals in her deciphering of the world.
And I know; I'm an ass for bitching about this. It's just that no-one I know seems to agree with me.
oh FUCK No! That fucking series was more damaging to the gay community then any right wing fucktard. Jack is the gay equivalent of this.
(http://media.salon.com/2012/11/RogerSterlingBlackFace11.jpeg)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 28, 2015, 04:48:34 PM
Could I possibly get you to be a jerk to my girlfriend? She seems to be convinced that all gay men are like Jack from Will and Grace or something. You know the stereotypical effeminate homosexual man; kind, energetic, quircky, up to date in fashion and a girls' best friend.
Whenever she says something like 'I like gays they are just so cute and cheery' I think to myself and often say to her; 'Do you know how wrong that is of you to say?'
I love my girlfriend, but sometimes she relies too much on stereotypes and media-portrayals in her deciphering of the world.
And I know; I'm an ass for bitching about this. It's just that no-one I know seems to agree with me.
She needs to meet a bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_%28gay_culture%29).
I could definitely recommend some porn for your girlfriend to watch that would change her mind forever.
You wouldn't have to watch it with her, unless you wanted to.
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 04:24:38 PM
You do understand that mormons persecute gays right?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345551/
I also resent the stereotype that all gays are nice people like we're a fucking ice-cream flavor.
Ever here of Ronnie Kray?
I know what you mean. I hate stereotypes. It's just like the stereotype of an athiest being a militant, mean spirited, god hater. I sure don't want to be identified like that.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 28, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
(First off to avoid confusion I am atheist) Of all the groups of people I have encountered, I have never met anyone who was gay or Mormon that I did not like. They are both some of the nicest thoughtful people I have ever met. Coincidently they are also two of the most persecuted groups. Does being persecuted make people more nice?
Have you ever heard the term 'small sample size'? We baseball fans (and this site is replete with them:) are familiar with it. If a baseball player were to hit .400 for season he would command whatever salary he demanded, which would be on the other side of 30 million a year. So, at the beginning of the season a player is hitting .400, but he has only 10 at bats, is it time to get excited or conclude this guy will hit that for a season? Probably not. Why? Because it is a long way from 10 at bats to 700 at bats or a seasons worth of at bats. That is what you just did, extrapolated a conclusion based on too small a sample size. I would suspect that if you too a representative sample of all gays or mormons they would have about the same personal 'likeability' as the general population.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 28, 2015, 05:14:13 PM
I know what you mean. I hate stereotypes. It's just like the stereotype of an athiest being a militant, mean spirited, god hater. I sure don't want to be identified like that.
Well...there is one really, really easy way to avoid being considered a homophobe.
Not acting like one.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 28, 2015, 05:22:12 PM
Well...there is one really, really easy way to avoid being considered a homophobe.
Not acting like one.
I have no idea what you could be referring to. Where did you get homophobia out of this thread?
Munch: "You do understand that mormons persecute gays right?"
Givemeareason: "I know what you mean. I hate stereotypes."
I'm trying to ever so subtlety point out that there might be a reason that mormons have a bad record when it comes to gay rights.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 28, 2015, 05:17:00 PM
Have you ever heard the term 'small sample size'? We baseball fans (and this site is replete with them:) are familiar with it. If a baseball player were to hit .400 for season he would command whatever salary he demanded, which would be on the other side of 30 million a year. So, at the beginning of the season a player is hitting .400, but he has only 10 at bats, is it time to get excited or conclude this guy will hit that for a season? Probably not. Why? Because it is a long way from 10 at bats to 700 at bats or a seasons worth of at bats. That is what you just did, extrapolated a conclusion based on too small a sample size. I would suspect that if you too a representative sample of all gays or mormons they would have about the same personal 'likeability' as the general population.
Well that may very well be true. I wasn't conducting a study though. Just my own life's encounters. If they really aren't nice after all then I will just have to live with it.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 28, 2015, 07:08:09 PM
Munch: "You do understand that mormons persecute gays right?"
Givemeareason: "I know what you mean. I hate stereotypes."
I'm trying to ever so subtlety point out that there might be a reason that mormons have a bad record when it comes to gay rights.
This conversation has nothing to do with gay rights. I have no idea how you jumped to that. If you don't like Mormons that's ok. Somebody needs to splinter off a gay Mormon church. Maybe then they might look so bad.
We're people. Making an assumption that because we are all just one type of person based on an arbitrary thing like gender or skin color is kind of insulting. Its like someone assuming all black people are violent and get nervous when black people approach them, or how all mexicans are lazy.
Quote from: Solitary on April 28, 2015, 04:48:17 PM
I feel the same way, but the Mormons I knew were ex Mormons and atheist. I have met women's libbers who hated men, but my best lover was an androgynous plural sex advocate, which I think I am also, but never experienced it. To each their own. :biggrin2: Solitary
I in years past fantasized about being gay. And though I am not really gay that I know of most of those fantasies also included women. So maybe I am bisexual. I don't know.
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
We're people. Making an assumption that because we are all just one type of person based on an arbitrary thing like gender or skin color is kind of insulting. Its like someone assuming all black people are violent and get nervous when black people approach them, or how all mexicans are lazy.
So I wasn't supposed to have noticed what I had observed. So now I am a homophobe and a theist troll. Got it.
yyeeeee... can't really call it a gay fantasy if two gender types are in that..
QuoteSo I wasn't supposed to have noticed what I had observed. So now I am a homophobe and a theist troll. Got it.
Where you get that assumption from? I corrected you on the issue of assuming people could only be typecast into one character type which you based on a few examples. I've known very flamboyant gay people to, but the majority of people I've known over the years from it are just like anyone else, there is no stereotype, you just projected a blanket assertion that doesn't make sense.
Though if you were a theist troll that be good because trolling theists is fun and pretty easy to do.
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 07:31:52 PM
yyeeeee... can't really call it a gay fantasy if two gender types are in that..
Where you get that assumption from? I corrected you on the issue of assuming people could only be typecast into one character type which you based on a few examples. I've known very flamboyant gay people to, but the majority of people I've known over the years from it are just like anyone else, there is no stereotype, you just projected a blanket assertion that doesn't make sense.
Though if you were a theist troll that be good because trolling theists is fun and pretty easy to do.
I don't think you corrected me but rather you misinterpreted me. You are reading way to much into this. Are you familiar with the term heteronegativism?
Are you aware that only comes under an urban dictionary listing so doesn't even have a grounded representation.
heteronormative, the meaning of one being indoctrinated to the idea that heterosexuality is the only 'normal' sexuality however is in several dictionary listings.
And, even if heteronegativism was an acceptable meaning, I happen to love straight people and got many straight friends, so again you seem to be assuming something without more variety of information there.
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
Are you aware that only comes under an urban dictionary listing so doesn't even have a grounded representation.
heteronormative, the meaning of one being indoctrinated to the idea that heterosexuality is the only 'normal' sexuality however is in several dictionary listings.
And, even if heteronegativism was an acceptable meaning, I happen to love straight people and got many straight friends, so again you seem to be assuming something without more variety of information there.
So what if I said that of all the women I ever met, I never met one I didn't like. They are so nice and thoughtful. Would that be insulting?
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
Are you aware that only comes under an urban dictionary listing so doesn't even have a grounded representation.
heteronormative, the meaning of one being indoctrinated to the idea that heterosexuality is the only 'normal' sexuality however is in several dictionary listings.
And, even if heteronegativism was an acceptable meaning, I happen to love straight people and got many straight friends, so again you seem to be assuming something without more variety of information there.
This term heteronegativism regardless of whether it is acceptable the meaning clearly exists. And why wouldn't it because it is the same old issue that arises any time a minority tries to blend in with society. They struggle to get accepted so it is no surprise that individuals within the minority might become defensive. Anthropologists now tell us there is no longer such a thing as race. We are all just humans with diverse ethnic groups. Maybe someday we won't be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or whatever. We will all be just sexual..
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 28, 2015, 09:16:14 PMMaybe someday we won't be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or whatever. We will all be just sexual..
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m53y4eQHWX1qbgmyg.gif)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 28, 2015, 04:48:34 PM
Could I possibly get you to be a jerk to my girlfriend? She seems to be convinced that all gay men are like Jack from Will and Grace or something. You know the stereotypical effeminate homosexual man; kind, energetic, quircky, up to date in fashion and a girls' best friend.
She needs to meet me. All my trousers are black or gray because I can't fuck up matching a shirt with black or gray. And for safety's sake, most of my shirts are solid colors.
I'll cop to kind and quirky, though probably more quirky than kind.
...okay, I do knit and crochet and cook.
This whole thread is just...
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/63abacb30967fdf68341c11bc4cbeec9/tumblr_n9lq9uXmxL1r0bhnuo5_400.gif)
If I like someone I like them, don't need a reason any particular reason . .
they don't have to be beautiful,or have experience, don't have to be rich,don't have to be cool. no particular sign ....
Quote from: Munch on April 28, 2015, 04:24:38 PM
I also resent the stereotype that all gays are nice people like we're a fucking ice-cream flavor.
This too. Saying that gays are nice is just as ignorant as saying they are evil... even if it's (supposed) to be a compliment. I have met a few really shit people that were gay. It had nothing to do with their sexuality, it's just that they were just plain assholes.
If you want to give someone that is gay respect, IMO, (if the issue comes up in conversation) address it as "you realize people that are gay are no different than any other person".... that is if you actually believe the truth. Some are really nice, and some are absolute shit... and the rest are somewhere in-between.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 02:10:06 AM
This too. Saying that gays are nice is just as ignorant as saying they are evil... even if it's (supposed) to be a compliment. I have met a few really shit people that were gay. It had nothing to do with their sexuality, it's just that they were just plain assholes.
If you want to give someone that is gay respect, IMO, (if the issue comes up in conversation) address it as "you realize people that are gay are no different than any other person".... that is if you actually believe the truth. Some are really nice, and some are absolute shit... and the rest are somewhere in-between.
What I posted was a personal observation from reflecting on my own experience. The fact that it was taken as an insult is another interesting observation. I have no interest in insulting anyone.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 02:10:06 AM
This too. Saying that gays are nice is just as ignorant as saying they are evil... even if it's (supposed) to be a compliment. I have met a few really shit people that were gay. It had nothing to do with their sexuality, it's just that they were just plain assholes.
If you want to give someone that is gay respect, IMO, (if the issue comes up in conversation) address it as "you realize people that are gay are no different than any other person".... that is if you actually believe the truth. Some are really nice, and some are absolute shit... and the rest are somewhere in-between.
Being an asshole
is an ignorant position from my point of view. I mean why would anyone want to be an asshole? I think being an asshole is a very egotistical position. It indicates a position of being unaware or uncaring of other people. It is completely self centered and indicates a person who feels they can act with complete impunity.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 08:53:41 AM
Being an asshole
is an ignorant position from my point of view. I mean why would anyone want to be an asshole? I think being an asshole is a very egotistical position. It indicates a position of being unaware or uncaring of other people. It is completely self centered and indicates a person who feels they can act with complete impunity.
Ummm ok....
:popcorn:
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 09:17:59 AM
Ummm ok....
:popcorn:
Sent from your mom.
Haha. My mother is dead and I am not psychic. Evidently you have never met a real asshole. I am only an infant. You need to be more open minded.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 10:07:26 AM
Haha. My mother is dead and I am not psychic. Evidently you have never met a real asshole. I am only an infant. You need to be more open minded.
...
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 10:12:49 AM
...
Sent from your mom.
Are you just a recording or a real person? :-)
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 10:35:16 AM
Are you just a recording or a real person? :-)
Are you a troll or a real member?
You are starting to annoy me. For someone that wants to tell us what is and what isn't ignorance, you sure do a lot of assuming.
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 10:53:08 AM
Are you a troll or a real member?
You are starting to annoy me. For someone that wants to tell us what is and what isn't ignorance, you sure do a lot of assuming.
Sent from your mom.
Pickles, I think he is trying to be a real member. I do think he is an atheist. But I also think he has a very hard time accurately stating what he thinks and what he wants to know. His writing skills are not that strong. And his ability to ask questions suck big time. He likes to stay vague on just about everything, so just when you think you are making headway in understanding what he is saying or asking, he squirms away in another direction.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 29, 2015, 11:02:07 AM
Pickles, I think he is trying to be a real member. I do think he is an atheist. But I also think he has a very hard time accurately stating what he thinks and what he wants to know. His writing skills are not that strong. And his ability to ask questions suck big time. He likes to stay vague on just about everything, so just when you think you are making headway in understanding what he is saying or asking, he squirms away in another direction.
Yeah Yeah Yeah... I know.
I'm just a bit tired and cranky. And I'm already a bit of an asshole, even when I'm awake anyway.
Sent from your mom.
I don't.
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/news/a34473/internet-troll-study-stanford-cornell/
QuoteThey found specific patterns of behavior from online trolls. They are more likely to focus on a few threads and post irrelevant content, and they have much lower writing quality than fellow commenters (which isn't much of a surprise). They're also likely to succeed in getting a reaction out of fellow readers, which is their goal in the first place. Once the backlash gets strong, their trolling just gets worse until they're banned.
Add to that they don't post meaningful content in other people's previous OP's, continually insist they are "one of us" keep starting new threads without contributing to other threads, and mine old topics from archives. Get it yet?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2015, 10:53:08 AM
Are you a troll or a real member?
You are starting to annoy me. For someone that wants to tell us what is and what isn't ignorance, you sure do a lot of assuming.
Sent from your mom.
Why am I annoying you? If you think I am assuming something incorrectly, I would appreciate you telling me that. I sort of said this before but rather than sitting around in smug complacency it is better to jump in and make a fool of yourself. And so I do. Don't you agree?
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 29, 2015, 11:02:07 AM
Pickles, I think he is trying to be a real member. I do think he is an atheist. But I also think he has a very hard time accurately stating what he thinks and what he wants to know. His writing skills are not that strong. And his ability to ask questions suck big time. He likes to stay vague on just about everything, so just when you think you are making headway in understanding what he is saying or asking, he squirms away in another direction.
Thanks for that observation, Mike. I know that I am rather cerebral and sometimes I don't do as good a job conveying my thoughts as I would like to. You seem to think in logically consistent patterns so I would appreciate you helping me out any time you can.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 11:31:56 AM
Thanks for that observation, Mike. I know that I am rather cerebral and sometimes I don't do as good a job conveying my thoughts as I would like to. You seem to think in logically consistent patterns so I would appreciate you helping me out any time you can.
Any time. But I do not see you as being 'cerebral' at all; quite the opposite. Scattered is more like it; unable to focus. Is English a second language for you? Are you on mood altering drugs? What is you highest level of schooling? What was you best class?
Quote from: stromboli on April 29, 2015, 11:18:37 AM
I don't.
http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/news/a34473/internet-troll-study-stanford-cornell/
Add to that they don't post meaningful content in other people's previous OP's, continually insist they are "one of us" keep starting new threads without contributing to other threads, and mine old topics from archives. Get it yet?
I do seem to fit the pattern you just described. Can you offer a deeper analysis? That does not look like a very rewarding profile to me. I just don't have as much time as I would like so I have very selfishly perhaps starting threads of my own interest. I do read all the replies. And if my topics were of no interest, why would I get replies?
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 29, 2015, 11:39:56 AM
Any time. But I do not see you as being 'cerebral' at all; quite the opposite. Scattered is more like it; unable to focus. Is English a second language for you? Are you on mood altering drugs? What is you highest level of schooling? What was you best class?
To myself, I think in logical terms. As I told you, I see you thinking more like a computer because you think in more literal terms. My mind works on multi-tasking levels I think. I have a bachelor's degree in engineering which is no big deal these days. I am obsolete but I still love science. I only speak English but I have friend who is able to think and even dream in french. That fascinates me. Not on mind altering drugs. And within math and science, I was a straight A student. So of course it is possible I may be starting to undergo dementia but I am not aware of it. I have a very active mind and I am constantly evaluating.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 12:03:04 PM
To myself, I think in logical terms. As I told you, I see you thinking more like a computer because you think in more literal terms. My mind works on multi-tasking levels I think. I have a bachelor's degree in engineering which is no big deal these days. I am obsolete but I still love science. I only speak English but I have friend who is able to think and even dream in french. That fascinates me. Not on mind altering drugs. And within math and science, I was a straight A student. So of course it is possible I may be starting to undergo dementia but I am not aware of it. I have a very active mind and I am constantly evaluating.
That sounds very promising. Sounds like a well grounded education. But articulate you are not. Your writing does not reflect the thinking of an engineer; more like a non-focused philosophy major. I may see 'literal' but only because I'm interested in communication. If we start talking about subject A, you may define it as B and I as C. Without pinning down an agreed upon definition, how would we know? I'm sure you have a question and subject in mind when you start these threads, but you do not articulate it well at all. You define nothing. So, even if you get a response how do you know what that response actually meant??? You con't communicate, you talk past something. That irritates people on a good day and pisses them off on a bad day.
If you want to know how people can to their atheist position, why not start a thread by posing a question that is clear: How did you come to your atheist position? And then it would be good to tell us how you came to yours, just to show you really are interested in an answer.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 29, 2015, 12:35:19 PM
That sounds very promising. Sounds like a well grounded education. But articulate you are not. Your writing does not reflect the thinking of an engineer; more like a non-focused philosophy major. I may see 'literal' but only because I'm interested in communication. If we start talking about subject A, you may define it as B and I as C. Without pinning down an agreed upon definition, how would we know? I'm sure you have a question and subject in mind when you start these threads, but you do not articulate it well at all. You define nothing. So, even if you get a response how do you know what that response actually meant??? You con't communicate, you talk past something. That irritates people on a good day and pisses them off on a bad day.
If you want to know how people can to their atheist position, why not start a thread by posing a question that is clear: How did you come to your atheist position? And then it would be good to tell us how you came to yours, just to show you really are interested in an answer.
Since I am no longer an engineer, I no longer think like an engineer. I am indeed thinking like a non-focused philosopher. At this time I am also trying to avoid becoming focused because I do not want to start making value judgements. Then I might become a real asshole. Do you think I would become more accepted then? :-)
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 01:04:35 PM
Since I am no longer an engineer, I no longer think like an engineer. I am indeed thinking like a non-focused philosopher. At this time I am also trying to avoid becoming focused because I do not want to start making value judgements. Then I might become a real asshole. Do you think I would become more accepted then? :-)
Yes. Without a doubt. Why? Because the biggest asshole of all is the one who starts discussions, does not really participate other than to make comments on the comments; who adds nothing to the content of said discussion and then tells us that he is now retired and therefore too lazy to think. When a person thinks they naturally come to conclusions. If the person really is into thinking (of the critical type) they will take whatever criticism is generated about said topic, and then either reject (with a reason) the criticism or incorporate that criticism into their thinking. That is how one grows in thinking ability and intelligence. So far, Giveme, you are regressing in your thinking ability. I see you as more and more, residing in the emotional side of arguments, which puts you into the native land of the religious--not the land of the critical thinker. As you are getting older, apparently you are getting fuzzier in your thinking.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 29, 2015, 02:25:20 PM
Yes. Without a doubt. Why? Because the biggest asshole of all is the one who starts discussions, does not really participate other than to make comments on the comments; who adds nothing to the content of said discussion and then tells us that he is now retired and therefore too lazy to think. When a person thinks they naturally come to conclusions. If the person really is into thinking (of the critical type) they will take whatever criticism is generated about said topic, and then either reject (with a reason) the criticism or incorporate that criticism into their thinking. That is how one grows in thinking ability and intelligence. So far, Giveme, you are regressing in your thinking ability. I see you as more and more, residing in the emotional side of arguments, which puts you into the native land of the religious--not the land of the critical thinker. As you are getting older, apparently you are getting fuzzier in your thinking.
What if I am just posting other ideas and hoping others will join in that we might consider or reconsider these ideas together? I like looking at things from different angles. Its a bit late for me to start changing the world. Okay, I will put my thinking cap back on. Is there something I need to take a firm opinion on? I have made it pretty clear that I do not see any benefit in the idea that religion needs to be eradicated.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 29, 2015, 04:04:02 PM
What if I am just posting other ideas and hoping others will join in that we might consider or reconsider these ideas together? I like looking at things from different angles. Its a bit late for me to start changing the world. Okay, I will put my thinking cap back on. Is there something I need to take a firm opinion on? I have made it pretty clear that I do not see any benefit in the idea that religion needs to be eradicated.
What do you mean--put your thinking cap back on???? I have yet to see any evidence that you have ever worn it. You make pronouncements with nothing to back them up. You give no facts. You do not define terms. It would be nice if you could start doing that.
You say--"I have made it pretty clear that I do not see any benefit in the idea that religion needs to be eradicated."
Yes, you have said that. But you have yet to give one reason why you think that. I would think that as an engineer critical thinking would be important to you. Did you not have to solve problems using critical thinking skills and math???? You have yet to show me you know much about either of those subjects. You make airy-fairy claims and leave it at that--you have no grounding in any kind of reality I'm aware of. You say the religious 'need' their religion. Well, the dope addict needs his dope. Does that make his need right? A criminal needs to break the law, does that make his need right? I say our society needs to have religion done away with. Organized religion has been and still is, the bane of every civilization that it has existed in. If you do not think that, then show me where I'm wrong. Show me some civilizations that were not harmed by having religions within them. Give me so reasons why I'm wrong. Don't use terms like, sincere, logical, or needs without defining what you mean. I realize that this may be too difficult for you, but I'd like to see what you can come up with. Sincerely--I do.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 30, 2015, 11:01:05 AM
What do you mean--put your thinking cap back on???? I have yet to see any evidence that you have ever worn it. You make pronouncements with nothing to back them up. You give no facts. You do not define terms. It would be nice if you could start doing that.
You say--"I have made it pretty clear that I do not see any benefit in the idea that religion needs to be eradicated."
Yes, you have said that. But you have yet to give one reason why you think that. I would think that as an engineer critical thinking would be important to you. Did you not have to solve problems using critical thinking skills and math???? You have yet to show me you know much about either of those subjects. You make airy-fairy claims and leave it at that--you have no grounding in any kind of reality I'm aware of. You say the religious 'need' their religion. Well, the dope addict needs his dope. Does that make his need right? A criminal needs to break the law, does that make his need right? I say our society needs to have religion done away with. Organized religion has been and still is, the bane of every civilization that it has existed in. If you do not think that, then show me where I'm wrong. Show me some civilizations that were not harmed by having religions within them. Give me so reasons why I'm wrong. Don't use terms like, sincere, logical, or needs without defining what you mean. I realize that this may be too difficult for you, but I'd like to see what you can come up with. Sincerely--I do.
Mike, I cannot believe you as naive as you sometimes sound. And I do not believe you want me to start itemizing all the good that religion has given humanity. You already know that but you just like focusing on the negative. Take the other point of view. If I were interested in debating I would be on a debate forum. But you are surely right when you told me that I would like it here. :-)
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 03:38:37 PM
Mike, I cannot believe you as naive as you sometimes sound. And I do not believe you want me to start itemizing all the good that religion has given humanity. You already know that but you just like focusing on the negative. Take the other point of view. If I were interested in debating I would be on a debate forum. But you are surely right when you told me that I would like it here. :-)
Well, Blowinginthewind, you seem to still be allergic to reasons. I can see now why you retired--your brain stopped working. Itemize some good that religion has done???? Yeah, give me the top two or three. Ooops.......there I go again, hoping for a discussion with the exchange of ideas. Oh stupid me. Or naive. A discussion is not a debate. And disagreeing with somebody is not a debate.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 30, 2015, 06:41:42 PM
Well, Blowinginthewind, you seem to still be allergic to reasons. I can see now why you retired--your brain stopped working. Itemize some good that religion has done???? Yeah, give me the top two or three. Ooops.......there I go again, hoping for a discussion with the exchange of ideas. Oh stupid me. Or naive. A discussion is not a debate. And disagreeing with somebody is not a debate.
You certainly are persistent. You are asking me to defend something I don't believe in to prove they have had a positive effect (for some people and certainly not you, I nor anyone else on this board) under the presumption that you or I might actually decide whether it is good or not. Isn't this a bit absurd? I cannot find anything unbiased to refer to. Though I do think and even know that all religions have long offered people solace, comfort, assistance in many ways both physically and mentally, a path for them to follow regardless of how we might see it. In general it has given people purpose and has added meaning to their lives. Just because it may not be rational, are you going to tell me it has no value? I will not agree with you so the best I could hope for is convincing you to agree with me. RELIGION HAS VALUE
You right, religion does have value. The value of how church leaders squeeze all the money they can from the poor stupid manipulated fools who have been strung up by said faith through fear.
Quote from: Munch on April 30, 2015, 08:57:27 PM
You right, religion does have value. The value of how church leaders squeeze all the money they can from the poor stupid manipulated fools who have been strung up by said faith through fear.
You are a bigot. :-)
Bigotry involves race, sex and creed, it has nothing on messed up beliefs in fictional creation worship
Quote from: Munch on April 30, 2015, 09:21:45 PM
Bigotry involves race, sex and creed, it has nothing on messed up beliefs in fictional creation worship
Bigotry has no bounds. You are an anti-religious bigot. :-)
I'm personally prejudice against religion because it abuses and poisons children's minds with fear of a God and hell. All the good they do is to is to try and fix the harm they have done by their abuse and dogma, as well as take away their guilt. I'm prejudice against any hate group too, am I suppose to understand them too and show the good they do to? You are the first atheist troll I've came across, or a phony. olitary
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 10:06:21 PM
Bigotry has no bounds. You are an anti-religious bigot. :-)
"If you try to take down someone else's bully by ridiculing them, because they can't/need extra help, you are the bully" is what you are saying.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 30, 2015, 10:28:24 PM
"If you try to take down someone else's bully by ridiculing them, because they can't/need extra help, you are the bully" is what you are saying.
I am not sure what you are saying? I don't mean to ridicule anyone and certainly not Munch. I can be pretty thick skinned though. My intention was only to banter with him. I rather like his view of religion. It is hard to convey these things. Can you advise me?
Quote from: Solitary on April 30, 2015, 10:17:02 PM
I'm personally prejudice against religion because it abuses and poisons children's minds with fear of a God and hell. All the good they do is to is to try and fix the harm they have done by their abuse and dogma, as well as take away their guilt. I'm prejudice against any hate group too, am I suppose to understand them too and show the good they do to? You are the first atheist troll I've came across, or a phony. olitary
What does it mean to say I am an atheist troll? Are you referring to my not being a very good conformist? Where do you get the idea I am a phony?.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 10:37:46 PM
I am not sure what you are saying? I don't mean to ridicule anyone and certainly not Munch. I can be pretty thick skinned though. My intention was only to banter with him. I rather like his view of religion. It is hard to convey these things. Can you advise me?
You are calling him a bigot for being against and ridiculing religion.
Many religions have been very hateful towards various things, women, atheists, non-caucasians, and also LGBTs. Religion has been very active in taking away rights from people, dehumanizing people to the point of worthless property or hell-bound scum, mental and physical torture.....
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 10:44:02 PM
What does it mean to say I am an atheist troll? Are you referring to my not being a very good conformist? Where do you get the idea I am a phony?.
It doesn't mean you are not an atheist. It means you might actually be an atheist, but he, like some other people on here, believes that you are a troll.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 30, 2015, 11:04:03 PM
It doesn't mean you are not an atheist. It means you might actually be an atheist, but he, like some other people on here, believes that you are a troll.
Yes that was mentioned before. There were striking comparisons involved. So how might I counter that point of view?
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 11:10:37 PM
Yes that was mentioned before. There were striking comparisons involved. So how might I counter that point of view?
Develop some problem solving skills and figure it out yourself... And maybe if you can do that you won't be asking such annoying and trivial questions for things that have already been answered directly to you. (in addition to figuring out the other reasons you come off as a troll)
Sent from your mom.
:popcorn:
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 30, 2015, 10:57:00 PM
You are calling him a bigot for being against and ridiculing religion.
Many religions have been very hateful towards various things, women, atheists, non-caucasians, and also LGBTs. Religion has been very active in taking away rights from people, dehumanizing people to the point of worthless property or hell-bound scum, mental and physical torture.....
Well he does seem to have a rather close minded view of it but
i guess i am out of line saying that. The accusation was intended playfully since I thought I understood his point of view. But that was presumptuous of me since I really don't know much about him. So that means that could and might have seriously insulted him. I guess I am being too forward.
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 11:21:31 PM
I guess I am being too forward.
Forward/direct/blunt are all things you are not being. Most of us are not only ok with people being direct/forward/blunt with their words, they prefer it. What it is, is incorrect... and hurtfully incorrect at that.
Good night. I have work in the morning and I'm going to sleep. Don't piss off the rest of the members more than you already have.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 30, 2015, 11:16:30 PM
Develop some problem solving skills and figure it out yourself... And maybe if you can do that you won't be asking such annoying and trivial questions for things that have already been answered directly to you. (in addition to figuring out the other reasons you come off as a troll)
Sent from your mom.
I am not having a problem with my problem solving skills. So you are telling me to shut up and stop posting because I am posting too much and my subjects are too trivial and they annoy some people. Am I too stupid for this board? I don't really care much for being viewed as a troll because in real life and here I am just a very friendly and forward fellow. And I can't imagine what attracted your attention that you would be watching me? I am assuming someone must have complained about me. It has been quite a while since I have been on a discussion board but I have never been directly accused of being a troll. I remember that accusation flying around quite a bit in the past but I never paid much attention to it and never really understood it much anyway. Why are people so sensitive about that? I can see that if they were being disruptive in some way but I am wondering if this whole thing about trolls has not grown a bit out of proportion. Any time a new member arrives they are then evaluated with suspicion observing their behavior to see how they conform to the group. Why are we so concerned about trolls?
Quote from: Givemeareason on April 30, 2015, 11:53:56 PM
I am not having a problem with my problem solving skills. So you are telling me to shut up and stop posting because I am posting too much and my subjects are too trivial and they annoy some people.
No I am not.
QuoteAm I too stupid for this board?
You're saying that, not me.
QuoteI don't really care much for being viewed as a troll because in real life and here I am just a very friendly and forward fellow.
Good for you. We don't want to view you as a troll either.
QuoteAnd I can't imagine what attracted your attention that you would be watching me?
I figured you would get the hint by me alerting you that you are giving people on here the impression that you are a troll
QuoteI am assuming someone must have complained about me.
They complained directly to you, but no. no one made a "report to moderator" report.... yet. [/quote]It has been quite a while since I have been on a discussion board but I have never been directly accused of being a troll.[/quote] There is a first time for everything.
QuoteI remember that accusation flying around quite a bit in the past but I never paid much attention to it and never really understood it much anyway. Why are people so sensitive about that? I can see that if they were being disruptive in some way but I am wondering if this whole thing about trolls has not grown a bit out of proportion. Any time a new member arrives they are then evaluated with suspicion observing their behavior to see how they conform to the group. Why are we so concerned about trolls?
We're concerned about trolls because they DO disrupt.... like you have been doing. Conforming and not conforming has nothing to do with it. It's being a disruptive, spammy, annoying member is what sets off our current members' "troll-radar".
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 30, 2015, 11:31:11 PM
Forward/direct/blunt are all things you are not being. Most of us are not only ok with people being direct/forward/blunt with their words, they prefer it. What it is, is incorrect... and hurtfully incorrect at that.
Good night. I have work in the morning and I'm going to sleep. Don't piss off the rest of the members more than you already have.
I cannot imagine how I would have hurt anyone unless I was so unclear in what I said that it was completely taken in a wrong manner. Was it my sense of humor? Was it my pursuing lines of questioning that exceeded the social limitations? If someone finds me annoying that tells me they must see me as affecting them somehow. I don't see where I intentionally insulted anyone and it is hard for me to conceive how I might be viewed as a pest of some sort. But even if so why would they not just ignore me?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 01, 2015, 12:05:47 AM
No I am not. You're saying that, not me.Good for you. We don't want to view you as a troll either. I figured you would get the hint by me alerting you that you are giving people on here the impression that you are a troll They complained directly to you, but no. no one made a "report to moderator" report.... yet. It has been quite a while since I have been on a discussion board but I have never been directly accused of being a troll. There is a first time for everything. We're concerned about trolls because they DO disrupt.... like you have been doing. Conforming and not conforming has nothing to do with it. It's being a disruptive, spammy, annoying member is what sets off our current members' "troll-radar".
Those seem to be pretty subjective observations. Maybe this would be a good topic for discussion. Would that be okay with you or would that be too disruptive? I like to confront things head on and maybe we could get this issue of me being a troll out of the way. Or is that something a troll might suggest also?
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 01, 2015, 12:23:11 AM
Those seem to be pretty subjective observations. Maybe this would be a good topic for discussion. Would that be okay with you or would that be too disruptive? I like to confront things head on and maybe we could get this issue of me being a troll out of the way. Or is that something a troll might suggest also?
Sighhhhhh...................why the fuck am I trying any more??? Oh well, here goes. Follow the bouncing ball, Giveme..................
You say--Those seem to be pretty subjective observations.
Me--subjective they may be, but most of us on this board have them.
You say--Maybe this would be a good topic for discussion.
Me--Why bother? You would only duck and weave and not give a single reason or answer a single question, so what would be the point.
You say---I like to confront things head on and maybe we could get this issue of me being a troll out of the way.
Me--Now that is just pure bullshit. You have not confronted anything head on. You are troll-like in your refusal to engage in any discussion, give any reasoning for you stupid claims, or back up any of your points (if one can call them that) with facts. If someone asks you a question, you answer a different one or ignore it or go off on a tangent or make some vapid response. You are simply full of bullshit and vapor (must be methane gas).
Gays? Nice? You have never had to deal with a bitchy queen having a bad day, and I hope you don't have to.
I'm more masculine so when I have a bad day I'll just kill you (gun you down, fire, explosions, cyanide, beating, ect.), but a bitchy queen is much, much worse.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 01, 2015, 12:23:11 AM
Those seem to be pretty subjective observations. Maybe this would be a good topic for discussion. Would that be okay with you or would that be too disruptive? I like to confront things head on and maybe we could get this issue of me being a troll out of the way. Or is that something a troll might suggest also?
The real question is how often do you crap and fart?
And what other kinds of observations are there pray tell? :wall: Solitary