So I was out shopping last week, and saw this car parked at the store. I had to stop and take pictures.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7LNnlywb-tM/VSgjZMp5J8I/AAAAAAAAFYg/dTgEgiIg-j4/s912/WP_20150402_002.jpg)
I live in a little pocket of fundamentalism south of Portland. There is a church here on every corner, though I've also met a number of non-religious people. Still, this kind of in your face religion disgusts me. I mean, a little Jesus fish or bumper sticker or something fine, but this is nuts. And it was ALL OVER the car, including on the trunk and the roof.
What is religion like where you live? Mild? Pernicious?
P.S. Another shopper called me "bitch" for taking pictures of this car. I didn't stop and ask her why, but yikes....that was pretty harsh.
Who painted those flames? a third grader?
We have fundies preach at our town center with signs during the warmer months... and we have a jewish family that drives around with a giant menorah strapped to the top of their minivan... and I've seen some stuff on the highway occasionally, but nothing like that.
For the person that called you a bitch, if it was me it was said to, I would smile and say "Thanks! :biggrin:" I always try to make people insulting me think they are giving me a compliment. It fucks with them and makes me feel better about it.
You're a 'bitch' for taking pics? lol
I don't get what the car messages 'mean.' haha ^_^
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 10, 2015, 03:40:58 PM
Who painted those flames? a third grader?
We have fundies preach at our town center with signs during the warmer months... and we have a jewish family drive around with a giant menorah strapped to the top of their minivan... and I've seen some stuff on the highway occasionally, but nothing like that.
For the person that called you a bitch, if it was me it was said to, I would smile and say "Thanks! :biggrin:" I always try to make people insulting me think they are giving me a compliment. It fucks with them and makes me feel better about it.
LOL! You're so diabolical. ^_^
How the hell does that make you a bitch? lol...
the small town I live in is a small rendering of the Bible Belt. You could chip the town away and ship it off to Alabama--give the people a few days to get the accent down and they would fit right in. The most disgusting pieces of shit politicians (hhmmmm, come to think of it, that pretty much makes up the entire group, doesn't it?) are always voted for--and you can count on the churches to all suggest the Rep. candidates are voted for. They voted for Bush/Cheney twice and Romeny and McCain.
I live at the ass end of Britain. Religion ain't an issue, we're too busy surfing and drinking real ale... :pidu:
Quote from: Youssuf Ramadan on April 10, 2015, 04:49:01 PM
I live at the ass end of Britain. Religion ain't an issue, we're too busy surfing and drinking real ale... :pidu:
Sounds like a great place to be from! :)
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 10, 2015, 04:50:59 PM
Sounds like a great place to be from! :)
Yeah, thanks - it's pretty cool. It has its problems, like not much work, low wages, inbreeding etc, but it's a beautiful place to live.... and very little religious asshattery. :mrgreen:
I missed the photo.
We are in SW Michigan, where it is apparent that the vast majority of people are some kind of Christian. The only other atheists that I know of are three people who moved here from the UK.
We live in a $20 town that has I think five churches. We moved here from NJ where things are a bit more progressive, but still dominated by people who are affiliated with some sort of religion. It was quite a bit more diverse there.
Not a lot here, happily. It's too big a city for any one sect to dominate, and trends a little more progressive every year, and has more than one active atheist group (to say nothing of a strong LGBT community). Even our idiot Repub governor doesn't talk religion much, but he's always been the plutocrat wing of the party rather than the Talebangelical wing.
pretty much the same as Youssuf, southern end of the uk, not really anything majorly religious here, at least not around my area. Worst case scenario is people trying to sell watchtower at my door, your more likely to run into a drunk group then a religious one. And yeah jobs are kinda hard to come by.
thats one of those occasion when you wished you had a cannon….an old fashioned civil war cannon…and a kitty….a little kitty on the side of the road and the asshole slows down and stops…gets out to check on the little kitty and ….BOOM! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….er………hahahahahahahha
I guess I didn't answer the question...
The city I "live" in (only here about 8 hours a day, and 4 or 5 of those are asleep) is just... bleh. It's a redneck town, your typical backwards... country... hicktown with a population of 20,000 but at least 6 white people churches and then two Catholic churches as well. A couple of houses that advertise as churches as well and that the end is near. Oh, and a Lutheran University.
That said, the place I really live (either work or class from 8 in the morning to 10 at night) five days a week is really laid back and nice. The town itself (San Marcos, Texas)... I can only really think of two churches, the Roman Catholic and a really old Germanic looking church (I just looked up, there are only two in the town proper and a few more on the outskirts)... this is in a town of 54,000 + a university of 35,568.
We occasionally have some people come to the quad to talk about the lawrd, but besides that its not a big deal. The best though was a woman preaching about the gospel of the condom, a satire about how if you have premarital sex and think a condom will save you, you will get aids and herpes and die and burn in hell for all eternity, as she yelled all sorts of hateful remarks at women who walked by in clothing that didn't cover all skin bellow the neck (props to her, she beat the burqa by just a bit... the face can at least be shown).
I wish I had recorded her, she is fucking crazy. Also have some Brother Jed or somesuch that is a real asshole. I really like that the Lutheran and Roman Catholic representatives at the campus come out with signs and straight up say, "We are not with these people; we accept you however you are dressed, however sexual you are and regardless of what orientation or skin colour you come from.". It's a completely different culture, and I cant imagine living anywhere where such progressive thought isn't the norm.
Mostly Southern Batshit Baptist. Some other protestants. A few Catholics. A surprisingly large population of Freemasons. Very, very few atheists, though it's hard to tell.
It's pretty common for people to wear "I love Jesus" paraphernalia. Sometimes combined with camo. Cringetown, USA. Population: Me.
Religion doesn't come up often, but when it does, it absolutely drives me nuts. Dem gays. Always dem gays. Praising/invoking God out of the freaking blue for the strangest stuff. Something mildly positive but completely ordinary happened to me today --> "God's watching out for me!" Minor surgery was successful? Totally a miracle! "Have a blessed day!"
Also, the US was founded as a Christian nation. "One nation under God" - all the Founding Fathers. The "war" on Christmas. God kicked out of the classroom. Immodest women. Abortion.
I seriously need a stress ball.
Quote from: aitm on April 10, 2015, 09:18:38 PM
thats one of those occasion when you wished you had a cannon….an old fashioned civil war cannon…and a kitty….a little kitty on the side of the road and the asshole slows down and stops…gets out to check on the little kitty and ….BOOM! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….er………hahahahahahahha
Got your own little thread going on in your head there aitm? Or I just don't get it?.......that could easily be it I suppose.
I live in a town of about 20,000. At last count there were 30 churches, and 33 bars. Even the democrats, around here, are bigots. It's not uncommon to hear Fox News, or some Christian radio station playing when I walk into a business. That being said, I have several atheist friends, whom I've known since I was a kid.
I'm surrounded by Baptists. The Baptist churches easily make up 90% of the churches in the area. There are the Baptist This and the Baptist That, and some Baptist affiliated churches that don't have the name Baptist.
Loads of churches and chapels in this city, also a couple of mosques and synagogues and at least 1 sikk temple that i know of, oh and Glasgow cathedral is about a half mile from my house. But with a population of approx 1 million here religion isnt so important to most of us. Its been reported that church/chapel attendances have been declining over the last few years and thats great news. Personally speaking, all my friends & family are atheist/humanist/agnostic etc......................... :pidu:
This is near me. Too close for comfort.
http://www.graceautorepair.com/
"We take pride in our work."
I though god opposes the proud.
Quote from: the_antithesis on April 11, 2015, 11:53:23 AM
This is near me. Too close for comfort.
http://www.graceautorepair.com/
"We take pride in our work."
I though god opposes the proud.
I love it when a business proclaims they are christian. I stay away. Even if I have to go to another town to get whatever it is. I have had my worse business experiences with christians. I think they are inherently dishonest and immoral.
Northern Utah, just North of the freeway corridor between Ogden to the north and Provo (Happy Valley) to the south. known to the ex-Mormons as the Moridor. Not too bad here, a lot of ex military and other people settled here, so Mormonism isn't a big thing like south of here. Provo with BYU has a church on every corner.
So wait, is god a refining fire or a consuming fire? And why do I have to choose? Theists are so confusing.
Quote from: Johan on April 11, 2015, 02:36:03 PM
So wait, is god a refining fire or a consuming fire? And why do I have to choose? Theists are so confusing.
Either way, you get burned!
Honestly, when I read stories like the crap Christians do in the republican states, or the shit happening in the middle east and Russia, I'm thankful being born where I am. Nowhere is perfect, but as far as progressive laws are, the uks a good place to be, and we don't have insane militant cops running around. Best of all, religion is usually just kept indoors and no street preachers or in your face religiosity.
I think the only places better would be somewhere like Denmark.
Quote from: Munch on April 11, 2015, 02:45:27 PM
Honestly, when I read stories like the crap Christians do in the republican states, or the shit happening in the middle east and Russia, I'm thankful being born where I am. Nowhere is perfect, but as far as progressive laws are, the uks a good place to be, and we don't have insane militant cops running around. Best of all, religion is usually just kept indoors and no street preachers or in your face religiosity.
I think the only places better would be somewhere like Denmark.
Good point. I'm in the US, but I'm still thankful to be here instead of say, Iran. I'm glad I'm not REALLY persecuted, like an atheist female over there might be.
People here love to go to Buddhist and Taoist temples to pray for money, health or good exam scores. But few would call themselves religious. Just kind of habit, or superstition. People tend to be very mild and open about religion. It's pretty unremarkable to be an atheist.
Honestly, that car is subtle compared to a car that parks at my gym. It has religious writing all over it PLUS a four-foot billboard attached to the roof. The owner always wear t-shirts with slogans like "repent or burn." There is also a big SUV with Christian Science of Creationism on it (I can't remember the exact wording). The most disturbing is a big truck that has a bunch of Marine Corps, pro-gun, anti-pacifism stuff with stickers like "the only good liberal is a dead liberal." That guy is a big bodybuilder. I've also noticed that all of the televisions in the gym that show news are set to Fox News, except one in the corner set to CNN. It's not like my gym is a little redneck hole-in-the wall, it's a large gym with lots of moms and younger people.
I'll try to get a picture of the cars next time.
Quote from: Aroura33 on April 11, 2015, 03:39:24 PM
Good point. I'm in the US, but I'm still thankful to be here instead of say, Iran. I'm glad I'm not REALLY persecuted, like an atheist female over there might be.
It's when I've spent years looking into accounts of the conditions people have to live in far worse countries, I think more on being thankful what I do have, instead of what I don't. I don't even have to vote or choose a religious title in documents here, which when you think about it is a great sense of freedom.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 11, 2015, 03:53:47 PM
"the only good liberal is a dead liberal."
:rotflmao:
Yeah something tells me that guy, despite all his redneck, republican, christian anti liberal and non-christian (probably anti gay to) mantra, all that wouldn't shield him from a bullet to the head if someone felt like doing it.
I demand that we start a thread for pictures of gawd-awful cars!
(This demand has nothing to do with my new motorcycle helmet camera.)
On second thought, it would probably take me a long while to find a car equal of that of the OP's... I'll quit before I shame myself in the failure to find gawd-awful cars.
Quote from: Munch on April 11, 2015, 04:36:06 PM
Yeah something tells me that guy, despite all his redneck, republican, christian anti liberal and non-christian (probably anti gay to) mantra, all that wouldn't shield him from a bullet to the head if someone felt like doing it.
I hate to lecture, and don't let me come across as PC, but
how the fuck is that kind of rhetoric helpful? I don't think you should endorse radical behavior on our side either.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 11, 2015, 03:53:47 PM
Honestly, that car is subtle compared to a car that parks at my gym. It has religious writing all over it PLUS a four-foot billboard attached to the roof. The owner always wear t-shirts with slogans like "repent or burn." There is also a big SUV with Christian Science of Creationism on it (I can't remember the exact wording). The most disturbing is a big truck that has a bunch of Marine Corps, pro-gun, anti-pacifism stuff with stickers like "the only good liberal is a dead liberal." That guy is a big bodybuilder. I've also noticed that all of the televisions in the gym that show news are set to Fox News, except one in the corner set to CNN. It's not like my gym is a little redneck hole-in-the wall, it's a large gym with lots of moms and younger people.
I'll try to get a picture of the cars next time.
Yikes!! Yes, please share pics of the car if you ever get a chance (without being murdered).
I'm in South Carolina so..... Amazingly I know more atheists here than xtians.. My gf claims to be xtian, but doesn't go to church and play the hollier than thou game.. Her kids, from what I can tell are atheists, but are afraid of being public about it.. Grandkids definitely are atheists..
I see and here plenty of xtian nonsense here, but go out of my way to avoid it if possible..
APA, when did you leave Ohio?
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 11, 2015, 12:00:36 PM
I love it when a business proclaims they are christian. I stay away. Even if I have to go to another town to get whatever it is. I have had my worse business experiences with christians. I think they are inherently dishonest and immoral.
I agree, many Christians are inherently dishonest and immoral. However, there are business folk out there that are not Christian, yet tether their business to the cross knowing it will Improve business.
They're suckers for other believers.
My gf has a friend that will only use Christian dating sites, and she has the best stories of how she's been swindled out of money by men. Yet she goes back for more hoping to find her man of christ.
I moved from Seattle which is secular by U.S. standards, and heard frequent mention of god there. Here in Australia, not so much about god or guns.
Going to see Jim jefferies next weekend, he does some great stuff on guns and religion. He's Ozzie, but lives in the U.S. now. YouTube him if you've never seen him!
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 11, 2015, 02:30:15 AM
"Have a blessed day!"
I hate hate hate that most of all. If I'm at work, I have to be nice about it. If I'm not, I'll reply with "And you have a rational one!"
Lots of churches where I live but I don't see anyone flaunting it ...
I think I've tuned out. lol
Quote from: Mermaid on April 10, 2015, 08:07:55 PM
I missed the photo.
We are in SW Michigan, where it is apparent that the vast majority of people are some kind of Christian. The only other atheists that I know of are three people who moved here from the UK.
We live in a $20 town that has I think five churches. We moved here from NJ where things are a bit more progressive, but still dominated by people who are affiliated with some sort of religion. It was quite a bit more diverse there.
I live in Genesee County of Michigan, a blue streak on a stain that's far too red. Better than Mississippi.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on April 11, 2015, 04:56:19 PM
I hate to lecture, and don't let me come across as PC, but how the fuck is that kind of rhetoric helpful? I don't think you should endorse radical behavior on our side either.
It wasn't meant like that, I never endorse violence, especially not killing people. It was just pulling apart that for all the bravado someone like that has using god as his methods of attacking other groups of people, the guy is just flesh and bone like anyone else, and there is no god to defend him if someone were to attack him, thats all.
Religiously insane tools like that use their faith as a shield thinking anything they do is okay because in their minds god would want them to, like we've heard many accounts though time of people killing others in the name of their religious idol. But when you get down to it, all an insane dirtbag like that has is words, and nothing else, meaning he has nothing to defend him from should he push someone to far.
Trust me, I take pleasure in seeing religious fundies having their backwards hate campaigns crushed and forced to 'conform' to progressive things, I even take pleasure in seeing them lose it when they can't be the bigoted assholes they consider a normality anymore. But I would NEVER find anything good or sound about some lunatic killing people based on their faith, like that guy who shoot the three students some months back.
Taking a picture of something makes you a bitch?!!!
Well Well Well I'll be taking pictures of everything from now on!
A lot of this...
(http://raddezigns.raddezigns.netdna-cdn.com/decal_ads/extras/7212_White.jpg)
Some of this...
(http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2012/06/03/1-toppersnakesmanual.jpg)
And a little of this....
(http://restlesspilgrim.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tridentine.jpg)
Quote from: hrdlr110 on April 11, 2015, 02:50:45 AM
Got your own little thread going on in your head there aitm? Or I just don't get it?.......that could easily be it I suppose.
yeah...hmmmm...probably shoulda been in the drunk thread.
Quote from: trdsf on April 11, 2015, 07:07:44 PM
I hate hate hate that most of all. If I'm at work, I have to be nice about it. If I'm not, I'll reply with "And you have a rational one!"
I ignore it most of the time. But occasionally, I'll reply with a facetious "blessed be". They don't like that one bit. Well, now you guys know how I feel about it.
Where I live, it's perfectly okay to talk about Christianity out in the open, on the clock. Atheism must be talked about behind closed doors and on your own time.
This is in a state that's 25% atheist, mind you.
Quote from: trdsf on April 11, 2015, 07:07:44 PM
I hate hate hate that most of all. If I'm at work, I have to be nice about it. If I'm not, I'll reply with "And you have a rational one!"
True confessions: When people say "Have a blessed day" what immediately pops into my head is "Blessed are the Ori" because I've watched every episode of Stargate.
The Ori /ˈÉ'raɪ/[1] are fictional characters in the science fiction television series, Stargate SG-1. They are a group of "ascended" beings who use their advanced technology and knowledge of the universe to attempt to trick non-ascended humans into worshipping them as gods.
Just had to share this one, since it would count as religion where I live in my town. My aunt, who short of simply saying it, is a new earth creationist who believes the world id 6000 years old, and that we were made by god planted on earth and all the ken ham bullshit there is.
She's taken it upon herself to try and not just say out loud how she thinks evolution is bullshit to my mum, her older sister, who herself follows evolution and science as a standard, but not content enough to accepting mums answer of 'thats what you believe, this is what I believe, nuff said', my aunt has gone out of her way, to look across the net, and print of document after document, of her 'proof' of evolution being a false claim.
She even highlighted areas of the papers she printed of, like trying to use Darwins claim on his deathbed that he had no solid proof of evolution at that time, something that now has been shown to have no proof outside of the person who was with him at the time, lady hope, as just her words as a christian.
My aunts a dingbat, who can't be content unless everyone agrees with her, mostly its based on this insecurity of her having an imperfection, that everyone loves her, and to be wrong would go against that imperfection.
Quote from: Munch on April 16, 2015, 11:47:57 AM
Just had to share this one, since it would count as religion where I live in my town. My aunt, who short of simply saying it, is a new earth creationist who believes the world id 6000 years old, and that we were made by god planted on earth and all the ken ham bullshit there is.
She's taken it upon herself to try and not just say out loud how she thinks evolution is bullshit to my mum, her older sister, who herself follows evolution and science as a standard, but not content enough to accepting mums answer of 'thats what you believe, this is what I believe, nuff said', my aunt has gone out of her way, to look across the net, and print of document after document, of her 'proof' of evolution being a false claim.
She even highlighted areas of the papers she printed of, like trying to use Darwins claim on his deathbed that he had no solid proof of evolution at that time, something that now has been shown to have no proof outside of the person who was with him at the time, lady hope, as just her words as a christian.
My aunts a dingbat, who can't be content unless everyone agrees with her, mostly its based on this insecurity of her having an imperfection, that everyone loves her, and to be wrong would go against that imperfection.
It sounds like your aunt might be a narcissist. If possible, you should try talking her into seeing a psychiatrist to get checked out. Not being satisfied with agreeing to disagree is a characteristic of narcissistic disorder. Try to get her the proper help before officially settling on the "dingbat" explanation.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 16, 2015, 12:29:30 PM
It sounds like your aunt might be a narcissist. If possible, you should try talking her into seeing a psychiatrist to get checked out. Not being satisfied with agreeing to disagree is a characteristic of narcissistic disorder. Try to get her the proper help before officially settling on the "dingbat" explanation.
That arn't gonna happen sadly, mostly because her partner, he pretty much fuels this, one of those guys who take complete control of her life, what she watches on tv, how they will build the house, where to shop, everything basically, and he is worse then her in terms of being one of these meatheaded tools who thinks themselves right all the time. If I even mentioned something about her going to a psychiatrist, he'd flip out and pull her in even more.
Religion in Renton is surprisingly mild.
My whole family is religious except for my little brother.
And he still believes in Santa.
My paternal grandfather is the only "sane" one, saying that it's ok for me to change my religion at best.
I tired to translate atheism to him, but he can't see anyone without a god.
Ridiculous to be honest. Better than my grandmother who's pushing me to be a priest, but still.
I may not vote this time around in the primary. I have problems with all four candidates: one's a Republican, he's right out from the get-go. He and one of the others (one of the three Dems) both oppose equal marriage rights, which is a dealbreaker. Of the two remaining, I have it from people who already work with him that *they* don't want him to be mayor, and one has the backing of the local Baptist organization, though how he got that while being pro marriage equality, I don't know. I think I'll let them hash it out for themselves and see who's left standing for November. It's a non-partisan primary, so we could come out of this with two Democrats running against each other.
Don't think any of the third party usuals made it onto the ballot. And our two write-ins are cranks, not even entertaining ones -- one makes a hobby of suing everyone and everything (she's been ordered to stop filing lawsuits unless approved by a magistrate, and promptly sued the judge who handed down that decision), the other appears to have an ax to grind over not getting a job with the school district, I think... it's not really clear. Ah, well.
We can't even do fucked-up politics entertainingliy around here. But this is Ohio... we're proud of being beige.
Quote from: Aroura33 on April 10, 2015, 03:30:20 PM
So I was out shopping last week, and saw this car parked at the store. I had to stop and take pictures.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7LNnlywb-tM/VSgjZMp5J8I/AAAAAAAAFYg/dTgEgiIg-j4/s912/WP_20150402_002.jpg)
I live in a little pocket of fundamentalism south of Portland. There is a church here on every corner, though I've also met a number of non-religious people. Still, this kind of in your face religion disgusts me. I mean, a little Jesus fish or bumper sticker or something fine, but this is nuts. And it was ALL OVER the car, including on the trunk and the roof.
What is religion like where you live? Mild? Pernicious?
P.S. Another shopper called me "bitch" for taking pictures of this car. I didn't stop and ask her why, but yikes....that was pretty harsh.
I'm from the UK. We say what we want about religion. No one cares except loonies.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 11, 2015, 03:53:47 PM
Honestly, that car is subtle compared to a car that parks at my gym. It has religious writing all over it PLUS a four-foot billboard attached to the roof. The owner always wear t-shirts with slogans like "repent or burn." There is also a big SUV with Christian Science of Creationism on it (I can't remember the exact wording). The most disturbing is a big truck that has a bunch of Marine Corps, pro-gun, anti-pacifism stuff with stickers like "the only good liberal is a dead liberal." That guy is a big bodybuilder. I've also noticed that all of the televisions in the gym that show news are set to Fox News, except one in the corner set to CNN. It's not like my gym is a little redneck hole-in-the wall, it's a large gym with lots of moms and younger people.
I'll try to get a picture of the cars next time.
Finally remembered to snap a picture.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd452/gsogymrat/Jesus%20car_zpsl8ixlexl.jpg)
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 11, 2015, 06:00:44 PM
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd452/gsogymrat/Jesus%20car_zpsl8ixlexl.jpg)
Jesus Christ.
For some reason that reminds me of the scientist who put the prob on the meteor, but got ridiculed by feminazis because of his shirt.
We live in a world where a brilliant man can have all he worked for undermined by one group of assholes, meanwhile another group of assholes can drive around in some shit like that, and nobody flames them down to the ground or calls them on their preaching.
Sometimes, just.. fuck this world.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 11, 2015, 06:00:44 PM
Finally remembered to snap a picture.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd452/gsogymrat/Jesus%20car_zpsl8ixlexl.jpg)
Lunacy on wheels.
They missed some spaces on their car. Perhaps some verses about how Lot's daughters raped him would round the theme out.
Quote from: Aroura33 on April 10, 2015, 03:30:20 PMI live in a little pocket of fundamentalism south of Portland. There is a church here on every corner, though I've also met a number of non-religious people. Still, this kind of in your face religion disgusts me. I mean, a little Jesus fish or bumper sticker or something fine, but this is nuts. And it was ALL OVER the car, including on the trunk and the roof.
What is religion like where you live? Mild? Pernicious?
P.S. Another shopper called me "bitch" for taking pictures of this car. I didn't stop and ask her why, but yikes....that was pretty harsh.
I really don't know. Most people in my area don't wear their religion on their sleeve. I happen to be a Christian, but I wouldn't be inclined to think driving a car like the one pictured is a good idea. I find that most people aren't religious in the first place. Most people have some basic beliefs, but generally they go on about their lives as if there is no God. God generally only becomes an object of thought for them during some kind of scary or difficult moment. The vast majority of people seem to live in a constant, though level, rationalization designed to provide themselves maximum autonomy & social ease. That's my general take.
Odoital, would you be so kind as to introduce yourself to us? Before we take pot-shots at you, or you at us, it's kind of nice to know a little about you and what you think.
Mostly Charismatic denominations (2 or 3), the Protestant Church and a few Jehovah's Witnesses.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 11, 2015, 06:00:44 PM
Finally remembered to snap a picture.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd452/gsogymrat/Jesus%20car_zpsl8ixlexl.jpg)
Fuck, and this loon lives in my state.
In town, one of NC's liberal cities, there are the stray street preachers, and a few loons, but for the most part religion is pretty much not mentioned.
Get out into the rural areas of the county, and when you meet someone 90% of the time one of the first questions the ask is "where y'all go to church" :shocked:
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 11, 2015, 12:00:36 PM
I love it when a business proclaims they are christian. I stay away. Even if I have to go to another town to get whatever it is. I have had my worse business experiences with christians. I think they are inherently dishonest and immoral.
This goes back to some of the wisdom my daddy taught me.
He told me "son, there's only one reason to go to church on Sunday. That is to see who is sitting on the front pew, for that is that bastard that will try to screw you on Monday."
Quote from: Feral Atheist on May 17, 2015, 12:30:58 PM
This goes back to some of the wisdom my daddy taught me.
He told me "son, there's only one reason to go to church on Sunday. That is to see who is sitting on the front pew, for that is that bastard that will try to screw you on Monday."
I have never heard that piece of advice before. You had a very wise daddy! :)) I'll have to borrow that one!
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 17, 2015, 09:35:28 AM
Odoital, would you be so kind as to introduce yourself to us? Before we take pot-shots at you, or you at us, it's kind of nice to know a little about you and what you think.
Sure I'm in my 30's, in law enforcement for the past 14 years, live in the Midwestern U.S., and have been a professing Christian for more than 3 decades & a thinking Christian for the past 16 or 17 years.
With regard to the rest, I don't intend to take pot-shots at anyone, and hopefully no one will take them at me. Generally speaking, it's just not conducive to having a real conversation.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 18, 2015, 06:13:46 AM
Sure I'm in my 30's, in law enforcement for the past 14 years, live in the Midwestern U.S., and have been a professing Christian for more than 3 decades & a thinking Christian for the past 16 or 17 years.
With regard to the rest, I don't intend to take pot-shots at anyone, and hopefully no one will take them at me. Generally speaking, it's just not conducive to having a real conversation.
I appreciate your sharing with us. I like you last sentence. I agree with that thought. I would enjoy a conversation with you----but, to be honest, you will be in for some rough sledding on this site. If you have read some of the threads here, I think you may realize that. And to be honest, I thought would be a drive-by type theist. Most of them who come here are. And BTW, I was a juvenile hall school teacher for 35 years, and during that time (well, 10 yrs) I was a member of a church, including being the board president for a year. I did not consider myself a christian, and still don't, but I was in a more searching mode back then. I'd love to have a conversation with a 'thinking' christian, one who will discuss different views of the bible and religion in general, without becoming angry or defensive.
With that in mind, maybe we could start a discussion dealing with the thread I started called, 'The 10 Commandments for Johnny', where I point out that the 10 commandments are listed three times in the OT--twice in Ex and once in Deu. The only one that is called 'the 10 commandments' is located in Ex. 34. Why is that not used as 'The 10 Commandments'? Why three places? And why pick out only 10 commandments, statues, ordinances or laws, when there are 613 of them in the OT? That's a lot to chew on. I look forward to reading what you have to say.
Oh, and welcome--I really do hope you stick around for awhile.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 18, 2015, 09:24:54 AM
I appreciate your sharing with us. I like you last sentence. I agree with that thought. I would enjoy a conversation with you----but, to be honest, you will be in for some rough sledding on this site. If you have read some of the threads here, I think you may realize that. And to be honest, I thought would be a drive-by type theist. Most of them who come here are. And BTW, I was a juvenile hall school teacher for 35 years, and during that time (well, 10 yrs) I was a member of a church, including being the board president for a year. I did not consider myself a christian, and still don't, but I was in a more searching mode back then. I'd love to have a conversation with a 'thinking' christian, one who will discuss different views of the bible and religion in general, without becoming angry or defensive.
Yeah, I know about the tough sledding. I've visited a lot of forums like this, so I've gotten plenty of experience. Unfortunately, people like yourself are relatively rare. Meaning no offense of course, but I find most atheists are hostile, condescending, and dismissive from the outset. Taking the time to see it from their point of view, I can empathize, but I'm always hopeful and looking for people who can differ in a civilized fashion so that all parties can leave from each discussion having been made better by the experience.
You certainly have an interesting background. I find it hard to imagine holding such positions in a church while not even considering myself a Christian, though I've heard of such things before. Given my background though, it's a bit mind blowing to consider the concept.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 18, 2015, 09:24:54 AM
With that in mind, maybe we could start a discussion dealing with the thread I started called, 'The 10 Commandments for Johnny', where I point out that the 10 commandments are listed three times in the OT--twice in Ex and once in Deu. The only one that is called 'the 10 commandments' is located in Ex. 34. Why is that not used as 'The 10 Commandments'? Why three places? And why pick out only 10 commandments, statues, ordinances or laws, when there are 613 of them in the OT? That's a lot to chew on. I look forward to reading what you have to say.
Oh, and welcome--I really do hope you stick around for awhile.
I have to say that I'm a bit struck by the question itself. Is this actually your most pressing concern? I mean, if you had a question for a Christian, this is the one you'd choose? There's obviously nothing wrong with the question at all. I'm just a little surprised by its atypical nature. Unfortunately, I don't know that I'll be able to give you a satisfactory answer, without looking into it a bit. I can tell you that the laws you're talking about were part of the Mosaic covenant, which of course are not and have never been binding upon the gentiles or Christians. Having said that, you're right to point out that they are called the Ten Commandments, and there is a sense in which those are and always have been binding. That's because the laws you speak of can be broken up into three categories (moral, civil, and ceremonial). The civil & ceremonial laws are those that were binding specifically on the Jews of the OT. And those that, generally speaking, can be called the 10 Commandments are considered to be the moral laws. That's because of the principles of morality that were included in the Law that are applicable to all people at all times in virtue of their reflection of God's nature and objective, universal morality. But they apply to all people in virtue of these moral principles and not because they were in the Mosaic Covenant. There is a book by Thomas R. Schreiner called something like
40 Questions about Christians and the Biblical Law, which touches on some of these issues & might be helpful. So the 10 Commandments are the only ones focused on by Christians due to the fact that they are the only ones that still apply under the New Covenant found in Christ. However, they are less legalistic laws and more laws of the heart with the bar having been raised. So that in the New Testament, even just hating someone is equated with the act of murder. All acts are birthed in the imagination, and so Christians are admonished to take every thought captive in obedience to Christ. As for the rest, I'd have to look into the issue a bit more. Is there a reason behind your particular curiosity surrounding this issue? As I recall from my school days, I believe there is also a book on the Ten Commandments in History by Paul Grimley Kuntz you might find interesting. I consulted it for a paper I wrote years ago, and I don't believe it's a Christian treatment. Anyway, I hope that answers at least part of your question.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 04:17:08 AM
You certainly have an interesting background. I find it hard to imagine holding such positions in a church while not even considering myself a Christian, though I've heard of such things before. Given my background though, it's a bit mind blowing to consider the concept.
This was with a Unity Church. Are you familiar with Unity? If not, google it and look at it's concepts and I think you can see that a belief in god or jesus is not required to get benefit from thinking that way. And as you are aware, the term "Christian" is not monolithic--it encompasses a huge range of beliefs, thoughts and actions. And it did get a little 'mind blowing' for me, which is why I left. I still use some of the concepts I learned then, such as affirmations and what the 'Christ consciousness' is within me. I just don't define these terms as a christian would.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 04:17:08 AM
I have to say that I'm a bit struck by the question itself. Is this actually your most pressing concern? I mean, if you had a question for a Christian, this is the one you'd choose? There's obviously nothing wrong with the question at all. I'm just a little surprised by its atypical nature.
I look for any entryway into a decent conversation with any christian. Johnny was talking about morals and this, I thought, would be a good way to approach a discussion about morals, for I head almost daily how that is the bedrock of our morals--the 10 commandments. So it was just a device to try and get a discussion started. And it worked. Johnny and I have a discussion going on and I hope it continues. I will admit that I was/am surprised that he did not blow off my questions and is actually engaging in a heartfelt and calm discussion. I always appreciate that.
As for the first question I'd ask a christian--well, it differs from person to person. For you, I was simply trying to see if you were a drive-by (quite clearly you are not--I think it is our gain that your old board shut down), so what would I ask? We have a couple of discussions going on right now, so I don't know that we need to start one here. But if you have any questions for me, fire away!
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 24, 2015, 10:46:20 AM
This was with a Unity Church. Are you familiar with Unity? If not, google it and look at its concepts and I think you can see that a belief in god or jesus is not required to get benefit from thinking that way. And as you are aware, the term "Christian" is not monolithic--it encompasses a huge range of beliefs, thoughts and actions. And it did get a little 'mind blowing' for me, which is why I left. I still use some of the concepts I learned then, such as affirmations and what the 'Christ consciousness' is within me. I just don't define these terms as a christian would.
Well, that makes a lot more sense. Yes, I’m familiar with the Unitarian church. From my own experience, most of the people who attend the Unitarian church wouldn’t be people that I could affirm as Christians. And yes, in this context, you’re talking about a huge variety of belief, to the degree that it’s almost completely amorphous, at least in some cases. It does depend a bit on the local demographics of course. With regard to Christianity not being monolithic, I think I can agree. However, I would have to insert a caveat here as well. Though you can find almost anything, if you look hard enough, existing under the general moniker of Christian; the term has very little meaning unless it refers to something in particular. For example, if I called every four-legged creature with hair a cat, what exactly would a cat be? There would be no way to tell because my placing every four-legged creature under that moniker would have muddied the waters of definition and recognition. This same thing is true of Christianity. If you call everyone who decides to ascribe the term Christian to themselves a Christian, without any reference to what specifically they believe, then you might as well junk the term. There won’t be enough definition there for you to tell a Christian from a Mormon, a Zoroastrian, a Jehovah’s witness, or even a Wiccan. So you would need some basic definition that is broad enough to provide for the obvious variety that does exist, but is exclusive enough to refer mostly to those who genuinely believe what the Bible actually teaches about itself. In short, a definition that would allow you to tell the orthodox from the heretic. The variety would arise in the understanding of particular passages, one’s view of eschatology, views on the presence and use of gifts (i.e. tongues), etc… There would be general agreement on the core doctrines or teachings and variety on secondary and tertiary matters. I’ll just quickly give you a sketch of what those doctrines might be. There might be some Christians who would argue for a few more basic doctrines, but these are the ones that every group of genuine Christians would insist upon.
1) The authority of scripture
2) The deity of Jesus Christ
3) The sinfulness of man
4) The substitutionary atonement
5) Salvation by grace through faith (i.e. trust)You can look back to a lot of the early creeds and find a lot of this. But if a person fell out of the boat with regard to any of the 5 listed above, I wouldn't have good reason to affirm that person's claim to be a Christian.
I hope that all makes sense.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 25, 2015, 03:32:29 AM
Well, that makes a lot more sense. Yes, I’m familiar with the Unitarian church. From my own experience, most of the people who attend the Unitarian church wouldn’t be people that I could affirm as Christians. And yes, in this context, you’re talking about a huge variety of belief, to the degree that it’s almost completely amorphous, at least in some cases. It does depend a bit on the local demographics of course. With regard to Christianity not being monolithic, I think I can agree. However, I would have to insert a caveat here as well. Though you can find almost anything, if you look hard enough, existing under the general moniker of Christian; the term has very little meaning unless it refers to something in particular. For example, if I called every four-legged creature with hair a cat, what exactly would a cat be? There would be no way to tell because my placing every four-legged creature under that moniker would have muddied the waters of definition and recognition. This same thing is true of Christianity. If you call everyone who decides to ascribe the term Christian to themselves a Christian, without any reference to what specifically they believe, then you might as well junk the term. There won’t be enough definition there for you to tell a Christian from a Mormon, a Zoroastrian, a Jehovah’s witness, or even a Wiccan. So you would need some basic definition that is broad enough to provide for the obvious variety that does exist, but is exclusive enough to refer mostly to those who genuinely believe what the Bible actually teaches about itself. In short, a definition that would allow you to tell the orthodox from the heretic. The variety would arise in the understanding of particular passages, one’s view of eschatology, views on the presence and use of gifts (i.e. tongues), etc… There would be general agreement on the core doctrines or teachings and variety on secondary and tertiary matters. I’ll just quickly give you a sketch of what those doctrines might be. There might be some Christians who would argue for a few more basic doctrines, but these are the ones that every group of genuine Christians would insist upon.
1) The authority of scripture
2) The deity of Jesus Christ
3) The sinfulness of man
4) The substitutionary atonement
5) Salvation by grace through faith (i.e. trust)
You can look back to a lot of the early creeds and find a lot of this. But if a person fell out of the boat with regard to any of the 5 listed above, I wouldn't have good reason to affirm that person's claim to be a Christian.
I hope that all makes sense.
This is a common mistake. I have no problem with the Unitarian movement. But Unity is NOT Unitarian. Google Unity or Charles Fillmore and you will immediately see the difference.
Thank you for supplying the list of 5 elements of Christianity that makes one a Christian. I'll comment on that later.