If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
You can postulate anything. Like 2 million monkeys banging on typewriters for millennia will eventually reproduce every book ever written. But you first have to understand that "mutliverse" is a concept, and doesn't mean infinite. If there were an infinite number, then everything is theoretically possible. The more finite the number, the lower the possibilities. If there are 42 universes, it doesn't mean that one of them will contain a god.
You also have to remember, as I have stated on here several times recently, that god by definition is supernatural, so it is impossible to quantify in real terms what god is, and a god could theoretically live outside of space time entirely.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
What about the reality where Hitler cured cancer, Morty? The answer is: don't think about it.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/asfix/repository/8a250ba13f865824013fc9db8b6b0400/thumbnail_4433080785409339410.jpg)
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
(http://i57.tinypic.com/dfdsg5.jpg)
If there are an infinite possibility of notes making up songs, wouldn't one of them be an octopus?
What is the multiverse then, since I apparently have a flawed understanding
Edit
This is what I read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Search_for_evidence
Edit
This is purely conceptual considering it's under the premise the multiverse is real,which there is not much evidence for
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
What is the multiverse then, since I apparently have a flawed understanding
Here's what you're missing: Just because a set of something is infinite, it still conforms to set rules. So you can have an infinite number of songs because you can arrange notes an infinite number of ways, but you'll only have songs not octopi or baby back ribs.
A universe is a physical structure. God is not. You can stack up one, two, three, universes to infinity and you'll still have only physical structures just as you'll only have songs with an infinite combination of notes.
How would physical restraints (that we don't understand) apply in an alternate reality
The words "alternate reality" is not free license for proposing any old thing.
These videos illustrate the concept of the multiverse pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA
The thing is... even though scientists are hypothesizing the idea of a multiverse now, the information as far as I know, isn't complete enough to base other assumptions off of it.
Explain an alternate reality if any old thing cannot exist in an alternate reality, if alternate reality isn't the best word, then substitute the phrase with other dimension
According to the video, could there be an evolution of dimensions so to speak, one branching off from another indefinitely
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:11:09 PM
Explain an alternate reality if any old thing cannot exist in an alternate reality, if alternate reality isn't the best word, then substitute the phrase with other dimension
Watch Steins;Gate. It's a good anime and it uses the idea of alternate reality really well.
Different universes are not the same as different realities, though. The idea of a different universe is almost the same as a different planet. It's composed differently. example: Our universe is expanding at a certain rate, but if another universe exists, it might expand at a different rate. Some rates might harbor more life, some zero... due to how stable the rate of expansion is for elements to come together and form life at a primordial stage.
Thanks for the help
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
According to the video, could there be an evolution of dimensions so to speak, one branching off from another indefinitely
yeah that's the first video, I forget which dimension it goes to, but the theory states that there is possibly 10 (eleven depending on how you count them) I'm not sure that that video went in to the multiverse. I think that is at the end of the second video or in another video he did.
The idea is: that we can only visually see 3 of the dimensions. time is multidirectional, but we only can see it in one direction. Nonetheless it is a spacial dimension all the same, as are the following.
My thoughts are, how do we know there is only eleven, if we can only visualize three? The point about how we are unaware of higher dimensions is fascinating
I thought the multiverse was literally referring to different planes of existence (like in Elder Scrolls) and that there are an infinite number of planes
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:11:09 PM
Explain an alternate reality if any old thing cannot exist in an alternate reality, if alternate reality isn't the best word, then substitute the phrase with other dimension
A physically tenable history and content. Otherwise, you can propose a reality where cabbages are songs. Cabbages are not songs; they're plants. Even if there is a song in such a reality called 'Cabbage', it will not be a cabbage.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
My thoughts are, how do we know there is only eleven, if we can only visualize three? The point about how we are unaware of higher dimensions is fascinating
I thought the multiverse was literally referring to different planes of existence (like in Elder Scrolls) and that there are an infinite number of planes
After 11 it collapses back in to it's self. 11 is the same as 1 and it basically goes in a loop.
I recommend watching the rest of the videos, it's pretty interesting how he illustrates it and he can describe it much better in those videos than any way I can.
Im on youtube right now, cool stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySBaYMESb8o
the seventh dimension indicates places with different laws of physics, considering a different big bang, and different laws of physics would further indicate that in these alternate dimensions, which are infinite, one would have a God
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySBaYMESb8o
the seventh dimension indicates places with different laws of physics, considering a different big bang, and different laws of physics would further indicate that in these alternate dimensions, which are infinite, one would have a God
No. Correction.
IF god existed, it is possible that he would exist in one the dimensions that we can't see. We still have zero way to see the seventh dimension, so it is a moot point to make claims about things that are in it.
Haha fair enough, but Im going to ask Casaprov because he is apparently all-knowing
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:54:44 PM
Haha fair enough, but Im going to ask Casaprov because he is apparently all-knowing
Casparov would probably decry the materialist thinking involved.
If there are infinite universes, aren't we each a god in one of them? Why can't we be? Even if we are not aware of our own presence in the other universe we could, in a non-materialistic sense, be ruling our own universe apart from our knowing consciousness and it only appears to us as a dream when in fact, it is reality......bow to me...you mother fuckers...this is MY universe and I AM GOD!
Quote from: aitm on May 07, 2014, 09:23:48 PM
If there are infinite universes, aren't we each a god in one of them? Why can't we be? Even if we are not aware of our own presence in the other universe we could, in a non-materialistic sense, be ruling our own universe apart from our knowing consciousness and it only appears to us as a dream when in fact, it is reality......bow to me...you mother fuckers...this is MY universe and I AM GOD!
Cool. I finally get to tell gawd to kiss my ass in person, sorta. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/earpoke.gif)
Quote from: aitm on May 07, 2014, 09:23:48 PMIf there are infinite universes, aren't we each a god in one of them? Why can't we be? Even if we are not aware of our own presence in the other universe we could, in a non-materialistic sense, be ruling our own universe apart from our knowing consciousness and it only appears to us as a dream when in fact, it is reality......bow to me...you mother fuckers...this is MY universe and I AM GOD!
A whole universe at my command...
(http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/uexc_attach/smug.gif)
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
the seventh dimension indicates places with different laws of physics, considering a different big bang, and different laws of physics would further indicate that in these alternate dimensions, which are infinite, one would have a God
It would make the chance you are living in a reality with a god pretty slim as well. I would say infinitely small but I believe that's not how statements about infinity work.
The alternate universe is located at
2417 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington DC
20515-2306
.........and ironically is also where Michelle Bachmann's office is. Is that a coincidence or what? :shocked:
:rotflmao: :pidu: You just made my day. Thanks! There is another alternate reality where Deepak Chopra and Casparov are. Did know If you square infinity and ad it to infinity, divide my two, you get Aleph. I'm not kidding. I learned this from aliens that took me to Kolab where God lives. Solitary
Not the very SAME god that punished Oklahoma and Arkansas with tornadoes for teh gays in San Francisco?? :shocked:
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
Depends on your definition of God. If your version of God is a tri-omni Creator, then it necessarily either exists in all or transends all universes or exists in/transends none of them.
To play along...
I would suppose it is possible, however even then the god would have to play by the rules of it's universe, not ours, so it really is meaningless. It could never interact with us, nor us with it, so... what does it really matter? It wouldn't have created us, judged us, condemned us and all the other things a God does, so unless we were to find ourselves in it's dimension... why would we have any justification to worry about it?
IF there are an infinite number of universes/realities, then sure, there could be gods in any of them. There could also be unicorns, fairies, fire-breathing dragons, genies, leprechauns, centaurs, dinosaurs that evolved into intelligent bipeds, elephants that can fly, and pretty much anything else I might imagine. Until we actually detect one of these other universes, though, it is all just conjecture.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
God is usually defined as something outside of the universe, so he either exists apart from the multiverse or he doesn't. Whether or not there is a multiverses doesn't affect the answer to that question. (Well, I suppose it could have implications.) The point I'm making is that the proposition you are making is nonsensical, since god would not be a property of a universe.
It was only a conjecture, especially considering that the multiverse cannot be proven
Since there is zero evidence gods are not myths, why is God considered not to be a myth for the same reason, and where did the concept come from in the first place? Since there is no evidence accept from peoples wild imaginations like any other fantasy character? If God actually exists, why is it impossible to prove He does except with faith? To say the multi universe suggests that God exists is a non sequitur in logic. Just because something is infinite does not mean anything is possible. Solitary
How so? I thought an infinite number of universes would mean an infinite number of possibilities
Tbh, this conjecture is a parody of an atheist who attempted to disprove God by stating human life was inevitable because there are so many universes, one was bound to have life
So I stumped him by saying God is inevitable because there are so many universes, one is bound to have a god
I think the multiverse is probably just an idea and nothing else
Why do a parody of a random guy on the internet none of us likely have knowledge of or is affiliated with?
Also:
I thought a monotheistic god was an eternal creator of a universe, not just some being that happened to exist within a universe. Your logic therefor does not follow, while the atheist's could - though that was a weird argument. Why bring in other universes (as I'm aware the multiverse is an hypothesis rather than a theory, making it pretty damn pointless to bring up as anything but conjecture) when all you need is the building blocks that have been proven to be able to form the basis of life and an enormous universe filled with planets with different conditions?
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 13, 2014, 05:25:27 PM
Tbh, this conjecture is a parody of an atheist who attempted to disprove God by stating human life was inevitable because there are so many universes, one was bound to have life
So I stumped him by saying God is inevitable because there are so many universes, one is bound to have a god
I think the multiverse is probably just an idea and nothing else
I see what you're trying to do, but it's not comparable because god isn't a product of a universe. He is not part of a universe, where as people are.
Idk la dolce vita, I was just testing this argument on a more mature crowd since the kid I stumped isn't the brightest bulb in the box (the point I made was that mentioning the multiverse is a can of worms during a debate)
Quote from: Drummer Guy on May 13, 2014, 06:41:13 PM
I see what you're trying to do, but it's not comparable because god isn't a product of a universe. He is not part of a universe, where as people are.
This. Forwarding this argument is to admit that God is
not the creator of the universe but the other way around. This is fatal, because "the creator of the universe" is the only thing God may have had any role in whatsoever.
Just out of curiosity, where does the Bible say that God is outside the universe? I doubt this was ever a teaching of the ancient Hebrews because their understanding of the cosmos was this:
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/ElveeKaye/Cosmos/OTcosmos.jpg)
This was the totality of the universe for them. God lived on top of that solid dome of sky, not "out there" someplace, or in another dimension, or wherever Christians today think he lives. And keep in mind that this cosmology, with some variations, was the norm for people all over the world up until about 1500 AD, when Arab and Indian astronomers began to propose a sun-centered universe. This means that Jesus, Paul, and all the other New Testament characters also accepted the old flat-Earth cosmology, with its underworld, pillars, and heavenly dome. God, to them, would have been fairly close at hand--right above the starry sky, if you could climb high enough.
I could cherry pick random verses but tbh idk, I know this verse
It's in 2 peter 3:8
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
It's referencing psalm 90 4
Literalists think that 1 day literally is 1000 years, but OECs think that since it's a simile it shouldn't be taken literally, thus the belief god supersedes time
Science: you fit the theory to explain the data
Religion: you fit the data to explain the theory.
Quote from: ApostateLois on May 13, 2014, 08:08:27 PM
Just out of curiosity, where does the Bible say that God is outside the universe?
As is usually the case, it's not about what the Bible says. It's about the interpretations people make of it. Even Contemporary Protestant's references are interpretations. To say that:
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years.
A thousand years are like a day.
Therefore God is outside the universe...
is a non sequitur.
And that attempt at logic remains non sequitur, even if you reach the OEC interpretation. The only thing multiple universes does in theology is create late night college dorm room speculations for pot smokers.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
What is the multiverse then, since I apparently have a flawed understanding
It means there may be a very high or even infinite number of possible universes that exist in addition to our own. It doesn't mean any of them are magic.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
My thoughts are, how do we know there is only eleven, if we can only visualize three? The point about how we are unaware of higher dimensions is fascinating
I thought the multiverse was literally referring to different planes of existence (like in Elder Scrolls) and that there are an infinite number of planes
It depends on which multiverse hypothesis you're talking about. The most likely, in my opinion, are M-theory universes, where universes are spawned...there's some slight evidence that our universe may have collided with one. In this scenario, universes might vary by physical constants, but since we don't know if the constants are actually variable (!), it might be that all universes are much the same.
The branching Quantum universe has all choices being enacted across different universes: If you get a heads in this universe, there's a universe where you got tails, if you picked white socks this morning, there's a universe where you picked argyle. That I'm incredulous on this one doesn't mean it isn't true, but I consider it unlikely.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 13, 2014, 05:25:27 PM
Tbh, this conjecture is a parody of an atheist who attempted to disprove God by stating human life was inevitable because there are so many universes, one was bound to have life
How would that disprove God? At most it only proves humans will come to exist somewhere if there are infinite universses. It only make God unnecessary as an explanation, and you don't need multiple universes for that.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 13, 2014, 05:25:27 PM
So I stumped him by saying God is inevitable because there are so many universes, one is bound to have a god
I think we have a less-easily-stumped class of atheist here. The Abrahamic God is not a contingent being who needs the right universe to exist. He either necessarily exists in all universes, or necessarily does not exist in any of them. Small-g gods are a slightly different matter, but as I implied elsewhere, the set of all possible universes is unlikely to include magic ones.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 13, 2014, 05:25:27 PM
I think the multiverse is probably just an idea and nothing else
It's hypothetical, but it's possible for there to be evidence for it. I don't think there's enough available yet to accept it as being true, though, and either way, at our current level of technology the idea is mainly useful for thought-experiments.
Multiverse? God? Multiverse? God? Multiverse? God? Multiverse? God? I choose Multiverse, a far better logical argument IMO
Would it make any difference in our lives either way? Solitary
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 07, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
If there are an infinite number of universes then wouldn't there be a God in one of them?
Why should there be a god, whatever that is, in any of them?