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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: Arellius on April 27, 2014, 06:24:46 PM

Title: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Arellius on April 27, 2014, 06:24:46 PM
This is an argument a friend of mine came up with and I thought it was a pretty good analogy and argument.

- Lets say:
In the real world a psychopath kidnaps a child (6 to 8 yrs of age) but the parents don't know yet. When the parents are worried sick about their child the psychopath sends them a video of their child being brutally tortured, the parents can't watch even 10 seconds of it. It's almost unimaginable how these parents must feel. A parent reading this does not even want to imagine such a sickening scenario.

You couldn't imagine a parent, your parent(s) perhaps, to just shake it off in time. They would have to be so cold blooded to even think ''Ah well, the psycho has him now, not much to do but to wish my (our) child all the best.''

- Same scenario but this time some minor adjustments:

For some reason the child dies, hit by a car at full speed perhaps, mother (and father if one is present) grieving and in deep depression. Mother later dies of natural causes, commits no sin. So the mother ends up in Heaven expecting to see her child there. But no, she's been told (by an angel or a heavenly authoritarian like figure) that her child is in Hell (Maybe didn't ''honor thy mother and father'' despite parents always saying they love you no matter what). Her child is burning, suffering in pain in the eternal flames. Eternal, that's a long long time.

Question(s): Does the mother carry on with eternal bliss and have 0% worry or grief for her child ? A parent who loves their child to bits, when you are in Heaven and you know your child is burning in Hell is that not a Hell in Heaven itself ? Or does she change into some kind of overly peaceful and happy zombie type figure, forced to understand why her child is in Hell and divided from her feelings of unconditional love for her child.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 06:31:33 PM
In heaven you lose free will.  I think that means you lose human emotions as well.

That is of course hypothetically assuming that heaven (specifically the Christian heaven) exists.

Sent via your mom

Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: rex on April 27, 2014, 07:42:27 PM
It was discussed million times. Most popular answer is lobotomy.
One christian told me that her child will be replaced with a perfect clone she will hang out with while the real copy will burn in hell. Which is even more fucked up.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: GSOgymrat on April 27, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
Is this like one of those "how does Superman shave?" discussions?
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: rex on April 27, 2014, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 27, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
Is this like one of those "how does Superman shave?" discussions?
Actually how does superman shave is not an easy question. How does he shave?
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 08:42:04 PM
Quote from: rex on April 27, 2014, 08:40:16 PM
Actually how does superman shave is not an easy question. How does he shave?
By delicately looking in to his beard through a mirror and implementing his lazer-vision
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: rex on April 27, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 08:42:04 PM
By delicately looking in to his beard through a mirror and implementing his lazer-vision
Sounds like suicide.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: rex on April 27, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
Sounds like suicide.

That's why he has to do it delicately.

Sent via your mom

Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: rex on April 27, 2014, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 08:46:29 PM
That's why he has to do it delicately.

Sent via your mom
I just remembered that kryptonite makes him human. So apparently it has some use.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: stromboli on April 27, 2014, 09:46:52 PM
Depends on which heaven you are talking about. In xtian heaven, all bad memories are washed away. I don't remember the scripture, but its there. Heaven is basically eternal bliss with meals.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: billhilly on April 28, 2014, 12:05:33 AM
Do you suppose they serve pork and shellfish with the meals?  Eternity is a long time to go without bacon and shrimp.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Arellius on April 28, 2014, 12:24:45 AM
I just quickly Googled some bible verses on ''Heaven.'' Doesn't say much, or anything at all for that matter, on what it looks like or what is in there.
As far as my own knowledge goes; Land of milk and honey ? To bad for the people that are lactose intolerant, oh he can cure you in Heaven ? But why not on Earth ?! Eternal worship and never ending songs of praise. In my opinion in the Christian afterlife there's not one but two Hells. (Hypothetically speaking).

Conclusion: So in any heaven, they brainwash people and force the parent to accept their child is in Hell. Great.   
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Hydra009 on April 28, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
Quote from: Arellius on April 28, 2014, 12:24:45 AMIn my opinion in the Christian afterlife there's not one but two Hells. (Hypothetically speaking).
Depending on the believer and whatever direction the wind is blowing that day, Hell is MUCH better than heaven.  Separation from God?  Oh noes!  And full of non-Christians, many of whom were actually quite admirable in life?  How horrible!
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Jason78 on April 28, 2014, 04:17:23 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 06:31:33 PM
I think that means you lose human emotions as well.

I guess that all depends on if endocrine systems also go to heaven.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Shiranu on April 28, 2014, 04:41:44 AM
The worst part is alot of them don't have to die and find out how they would react, they will straight up say, "My child made their choice, that makes me sad but they chose it. I'm gonna go chill with mah gawd now, lates!".

Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on April 29, 2014, 06:10:14 PM
It is exactly these kinds of questions that make me come up with the perfect rejoinder when some duchebag says they're going to Heaven: "There are no people in Heaven. Only monsters."
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 29, 2014, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on April 29, 2014, 06:10:14 PM"There are no people in Heaven. Only monsters."
Yeah. All mindless zombies. Even more mindless than when they were on earth.

Sent via your mom

Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: ApostateLois on May 05, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
When I was a kid, I asked my aunt--who was super religious--what we would do in heaven all day to keep from being bored. She said, "I think we'll be so busy praising God that we won't have time to be bored!" I didn't really know what to say to that at the time, because while I believed in heaven, that sounded pretty boring to me. And it sounds even moreso now. Christians can barely tolerate sitting in church for a couple of hours to hear a sermon, so how are they going to enjoy what amounts to a perpetual church service that never ends? And you don't even get to hear a sermon, it's nothing but prayers and hymns every moment of your existence forever and ever. I don't care who you are, there is NO WAY you can believe that this is the ideal way to spend eternity. You'd be bored after ten minutes of that, never mind ten million years! The only way it would work is if God reprogrammed your mind to make you basically into a robot that is not capable of thinking or feeling. But wait, haven't we been told that God wants WILLING worshipers, not merely robots that blindly obey? Or is that only for when you are on Earth, and in heaven he takes away your will, your personality, and your emotions so that the only thing you are capable of doing is praising him? I might post this question on Ray Comfort's Facebook page, if he hasn't blocked me yet.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: doorknob on May 05, 2014, 02:51:20 PM
Well then heaven sounds lame. Nothing bores me more than going to a church. Actually some times church is amusing if you are a real pervert you can make every statement in a sermon into something dirty. I use to do this while young. I would laugh my ass off and people would look at me like something was wrong.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: the_antithesis on May 05, 2014, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on April 27, 2014, 08:42:04 PM
By delicately looking in to his beard through a mirror and implementing his lazer-vision

That's how he did it post-Crisis. Before that, his hair and fingernails simply didn't grown under a yellow sun. Hence why Superbaby arrived with a full head of hair.

Yes, it's stupid.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: inflection2495 on May 09, 2014, 05:59:16 PM
I've seen this argument poses by Matt Dillahunty on the Atheist Experience. He said that his parents wouldn't be the same person if they weren't distressed by his suffering in hell, thus they had to be a different entity, and ultimately by that respect no one enters heaven as the same person they were on earth.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: St Giordano Bruno on May 10, 2014, 08:48:39 AM
As I see it Heaven is a synonym to the great fairy sky castle and Hell is great fairy dungeon. I just wish to Church would grow up to debunk those concepts.

(http://www.wallsave.com/wallpapers/1920x1080/fairy/402921/fairy-castle-in-the-clouds-sky-402921.jpg)
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: SGOS on May 10, 2014, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: ApostateLois on May 05, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
When I was a kid, I asked my aunt--who was super religious--what we would do in heaven all day to keep from being bored. She said, "I think we'll be so busy praising God that we won't have time to be bored!"
My grandmother added that we would be doing it while sitting on benches of gold.  Didn't sound that good to me either.  It seems like at a minimum, heaven should include the companionship of a good dog.
Title: Re: Parent in Heaven, Child in Hell
Post by: ApostateLois on May 10, 2014, 01:20:01 PM
It should also include some squishy seat cushions. Benches of gold?? Who would want to sit on that? It would be worse than wooden pews, because metal is cold on your bum! I wouldn't want to sit through eternity with a cold ass.