Used to be Athiest

[Baruch]

Human experience by itself cannot not be trusted.  Just because it exists doesn't mean it's not flawed.  Throwing a little science into human experience seems to help in determining what is true or relevant.  It's not perfect by any means.  It requires a lot of time and investigation, but the result helps to expand knowledge, whereas human experience by itself more often limits knowledge.  Misanthropy is just a part of human experience.  This makes misanthropy as irrelevant as human experience itself.  I wouldn't glorify human experience, but I wouldn't assume that misanthropy is the reason aitm doesn't value human experience much.  To imply that it does is just a bit of assumption sitting off to the side, but it's not necessarily relevant. Nor is it the only reason thoughtful people distrust human experience.

Being skeptical of everything is good, but it can be too much.  Genocide is part of the human experience, so yes, I don't trust human experience, but that doesn't mean I am opposed to it!  Human experience = subjectivity ... yes that is not enough.  But science = objectivity isn't enough either.  I can't see that subjectivity is irrelevant ... that is an ideology.  Might was well say ... "minority experience in the US is irrelevant".

[SGOS]

Being skeptical of everything is good, but it can be too much.  Genocide is part of the human experience, so yes, I don't trust human experience, but that doesn't mean I am opposed to it!  Human experience = subjectivity ... yes that is not enough.  But science = objectivity isn't enough either.  I can't see that subjectivity is irrelevant ... that is an ideology.  Might was well say ... "minority experience in the US is irrelevant".

I think the issue at hand was human experience of the type where claiming to see demons isn't worth much.  That is not the same as opposing human experience.

[doorknob]

um wow I missed a lot.

Let me say this. Even if demons were real it doesn't prove there is a god. The two are separate. You have to remember Christians aren't the only one's claiming demons. Demons are believed in through out many cultures many of them non christian.

So demon does not equate god. sorry.

But yeah I recommend geodon myself that helped me a lot! And I'm not being sarcastic I really was helped by geodon.

[Termin]

Hi
I used to have an opinion purely athiest that if I seen a spirit I would have the ground absolutely pulled out from under me and consider believing...Others believe in ghosts and still believe God is not there which leaves me absolutely baffled"

When you ask those people who believe in ghosts, and not gods, what was their explanation ?

"but for you athiests that would believe that seeing spirits is undoubtedly impossible without the existence of God I recommend seeking an experience by playing with a ouija board or other means...if it doesnt work continue trying because a demon is like a manipulative person that wants you to play on their own terms..if seeing a spirit is not enough then dont waste your time but i was a skeptic raised in athiestic home and i changed my mind because of incredible demonic experiences way beyond anything mainstream scientists can explain"

Quija board ? that may have not been the best example to use, look up the term ideomotor effect.

"....from my understanding you could open doors that your own family or friends could be killed or seriously hurt....but mine were not fortunately...
If the only way you could believe is an experience with a spirit than seek one....I used to be athiest but I seen for myself....if you have no experience but imediately or shortly thereafter feel suicidle or homicidle thoughts....severe depression..or anything of the nature...its just satan using the door you just opened to murder or brtally attack you...I used to be athiest but now im purely theist because of experiences i ran through with a fine tooth comb...."

  I don't think you did.

"I will never be athiest in a million years.....I just want to add that I know I am tuna in a shark tank but anyone who is truly curious can find real genuine experiences with the spiritual realm by simply seeking them aggressively

God have mercy

  Why do you say God have mercy ? is there any doubt in your mind that he might not ?

[aitm]

You accept human experience, as long as it is acceptable within your narrow POV.  Just chauvinist?  You strike me as a person who likes your dogs better than you like your people ... but I could be wrong about that.

so by saying that the existence of ghosts in no way suggests the existence of a god is chauvinist? Are smoking banana peels? Sometimes I wonder if you just type words and laugh at its stupidity.

[aitm]

Let me say this. Even if demons were real it doesn't prove there is a god. 

So demon does not equate god. sorry.

Easy Barouky suggests you are a chauvinist for that….somehow, in his very strange world.

[doorknob]

Well if you extend of stretch the meaning of that word then sure I guess I could be a chauvinist.

[aitm]

Well if you extend of stretch the meaning of that word then sure I guess I could be a chauvinist.

one has to not just stretch but contort to get to that point of view, but that won't stop our baruchy.

[Sylar]

Individuals suffering from schizophrenia are fully immersed in their delusions and cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not. To them, their delusions are reality.

That is one example, albeit severe, of how the brain can alter reality.

When you experience severe trauma, physical or mental (and they are interrelated), the brain can alter reality as a coping mechanism. I'm not an expert on the subject. 99% of all people are ignorant of how the brain works; the other 1% haven't even begun to explore the surface of how the brain works.

Being ignorant of how the brain works is no excuse to rely on supernatural explanations. That is called being intellectually lazy.

[Baruch]

Individuals suffering from schizophrenia are fully immersed in their delusions and cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not. To them, their delusions are reality.

That is one example, albeit severe, of how the brain can alter reality.

When you experience severe trauma, physical or mental (and they are interrelated), the brain can alter reality as a coping mechanism. I'm not an expert on the subject. 99% of all people are ignorant of how the brain works; the other 1% haven't even begun to explore the surface of how the brain works.

Being ignorant of how the brain works is no excuse to rely on supernatural explanations. That is called being intellectually lazy.

I have admitted to being criminal and crazy ... so I am out of the med ward ;-)  However you appear to be real ... so unless you aren't ... I am not psychotic.  Schizoid is slightly different.  This is a bohemian community for non-conformers.  In what do you non-conform?  Rhetorical question I am sure you will answer later.

[Sal1981]

Individuals suffering from schizophrenia are fully immersed in their delusions and cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not. To them, their delusions are reality.

True that. I take strong anti-psychotic meds to suppress delusional thought processes.

Looking back, I'm amazed at what I fooled myself into thinking and what I thought was and wasn't real. I had no auditory or visual hallucinations, just that my brain played tricks on me.

See your GP about this, OP.

[SGOS]

True that. I take strong anti-psychotic meds to suppress delusional thought processes.

Looking back, I'm amazed at what I fooled myself into thinking and what I thought was and wasn't real. I had no auditory or visual hallucinations, just that my brain played tricks on me.

See your GP about this, OP.

True that. I take strong anti-psychotic meds to suppress delusional thought processes.

Looking back, I'm amazed at what I fooled myself into thinking and what I thought was and wasn't real. I had no auditory or visual hallucinations, just that my brain played tricks on me.

See your GP about this, OP.

And I might add, you don't have to be diagnosed psychologically delusional for your mind to trick you into believing unsupported nonsense.  It's easy enough to do with a normal brain chemistry.

[stromboli]

I was a Mormon and belonged to a cult that had you convinced that native Americans came on wooden boats to this country 600 years before Jesus, had horses, chariots, steel swords and built great cities that no longer exist. Amazing what you can allow yourself to believe, or convince yourself of.

[widdershins]

I used to be an atheist too.  But then...wait a minute.  I'm STILL an atheist!  I need a hug.

[mauricio]

Hi
I used to have an opinion purely athiest that if I seen a spirit I would have the ground absolutely pulled out from under me and consider believing...Others believe in ghosts and still believe God is not there which leaves me absolutely baffled but for you athiests that would believe that seeing spirits is undoubtedly impossible without the existence of God I recommend seeking an experience by playing with a ouija board or other means...if it doesnt work continue trying because a demon is like a manipulative person that wants you to play on their own terms..if seeing a spirit is not enough then dont waste your time but i was a skeptic raised in athiestic home and i changed my mind because of incredible demonic experiences way beyond anything mainstream scientists can explain....from my understanding you could open doors that your own family or friends could be killed or seriously hurt....but mine were not fortunately...
If the only way you could believe is an experience with a spirit than seek one....I used to be athiest but I seen for myself....if you have no experience but imediately or shortly thereafter feel suicidle or homicidle thoughts....severe depression..or anything of the nature...its just satan using the door you just opened to murder or brtally attack you...I used to be athiest but now im purely theist because of experiences i ran through with a fine tooth comb....I will never be athiest in a million years.....I just want to add that I know I am tuna in a shark tank but anyone who is truly curious can find real genuine experiences with the spiritual realm by simply seeking them aggressively

God have mercy

sounds like you experienced things you cannot explain and from there you are making an argument from ignorance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance) to arrive to god and spirits. This is a basic fallacy. BTW i have seen many weird things and experienced perception distortion I recently took 1P-LSD and I saw obviously impossible things like, luminous apparitions on my peripheral vision, solid objects breathing and melting, complete distortion of depth perception that made people look extremely far away and small when they were right in front of me, infinite fractals hidden in every little corner or inside my own eyelids. The thing is our perception is very malleable in certain circumstances. Another example is walking in the dark in my house I have seen many scary things due to pattern recognition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) Your individual perception is not all that reliable that's why we have rigorous methodology in science that goes beyond just observing stuff. If you can't explain something you saw... that's just it. It is something you cannot explain, everything else are unwarranted conclusions. A lack of evidence for something does not automatically prove the assumed opposed conclusion to be truth. First because it is a false dichotomy because you cannot be sure you explored all the ways to procure evidence and found none. And second because it may not even be a dichotomy at all you need to be sure that one of the conclusions being false necessarily means the other was true and vice versa. A much more practical way is to simply find direct evidence of the claim rather than relying on lack of evidence of the perceived opposite claim. By saying: "I experienced this and I believe it cannot be explained by anything else, therefore it must be god/demons/spirits" you are most likely engaging in fallacious thinking.