The Refugee Crisis

[TomFoolery]

What is the root cause of the instability?

The root cause of this mass exodus is ISIS.

Why am I held responsible for their failure?

Because Western actions may not have directly created ISIS (though some of our Gulf allies certainly played a very active role in it and are also not accepting refugees) but as an example, there was no al-Qaida in Iraq until the US and Britain invaded. And the US has certainly exploited the existence of ISIS against other forces in the region to maintain western control. Furthermore, when during Western occupation of Iraq, the US specifically armed and endorsed the Sons of Iraq to weaken Iraqi resistance. NATO dumped fuel on the fire of Libya, bombing civilian centers and last weekISIS  took control of Gaddafi’s home town of Sirte.

Was the Middle East and Northern Africa a shitty place to live before the West stepped in with it's freedom squads? No. You're right, a lot of them were poor and illiterate, but people could still live there.

[Green Bottle]

What is the root cause of the instability? The poverty? The illiteracy? Their moral, intellectual, social, economical, political failures?
Not Europe.
Not me.
Why am I held responsible for their failure?
Do you feel responsible?

The Root Cause....there's more than one.

Religion..........................................................
The west's insatiable appetite for oil...................
Mankinds lust for war and destruction.................the end

[jonb]

Using general terms like that GB I think you may have missed one-
The idea that many at the top seem driven by- 'that if they only had a little more power they could control all problems' and then the need to finance that power which has to come from those they are controlling after all the rich would say its for their own good.

[Green Bottle]

Yes Jonb. i forgot that one,

too many Power hungry people in power...........................

[jonb]

Oh and I think it should be mentioned we British were 'policing by bombing' in Iraq before we even knew oil was there.





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29441383

[Green Bottle]

The British...... causing fkn trouble since fknose when.......

[jonb]

Look at the map the Tory party uses



And there is this one I am told the white house still uses

[pr126]

Well, it is very good for us to take the blame, but Muslims started massacring, enslaving, conquering and looting countries long before the greed for oil, Reagan, or  even USA foreign policy...

Around 622 CE to be exact.  And the beat goes on.
Allahu akbar.

Start here.  History of Jihad

[Deidre32]

This is heart breaking, to me. It is fascinating to me how so many Christians in the middle east feel that their faith is potentially worth dying for. I find that sad, but also fascinating because I live in a 'free' country, where religious freedom is acceptable, and while I'm no longer religious, I'm grateful for religious freedom for others here.

[pr126]

The Power of the Fist is What Matters

“They tried to overturn the coach, in which I was travelling with a group. Excrement was thrown in our direction… they banged on the doors, to get the driver to open them. They spat at the windows.” â€" such is the report of Kamil Bulonis, the author of a travel blog.

It’s difficult to accuse the author of this entry, who writes a blog called “Obywatel Swiata” [Citizen of the World], of right-wing, Catholic or nationalist “looniness”. For Kamil Bulonis writes about himself openly on Instagram as a “journalist, globetrotter, gay”, while on Facebook, his profile picture appears in rainbow colours.

Last night Kamil Bulonis posted a report of his journey from Italy by coach. It is so moving that we are pasting it in full. Especially given that we cannot rely on mainstream media to break with their common narrative about “bad Hungarian nationalists” and “poor immigrants”.

This is the account by Kamil Bulonis:

Read on.

[peacewithoutgod]

And there is this one I am told the white house still uses

That should be the map that "Congress" still uses. Ronald Reagan, like Margaret Thatcher is dead. His acolytes control Congress now, but they aren't likely to take the White House again for at least another election cycle. I think the split is caused by the degree of long, drawn-out drama over Presidential elections which remind more people that they need to vote, whereas the only people who pay attention to other elections are those who are old and bigoted, too dull to reason, or are easy prey for any con job. Or all of the above.

[jonb]

Well, it is very good for us to take the blame, but Muslims started massacring, enslaving, conquering and looting countries long before the greed for oil, Reagan, or  even USA foreign policy...

Around 622 CE to be exact.  And the beat goes on.
Allahu akbar.

Start here.  History of Jihad


So when did the Christians start massacring, enslaving, conquering and looting countries
Or the Jews start long before muslims and they were all doing it in the name of there god amen.

You seem to want to reduce things to simple black and white lines they wrong we good. Are you sure you would not be happier in a fundamentalist church (Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind).

Even the idea that what is going on in the middle east is islam v the rest of us has become a joke!

Turkey has been talked into the bombing alliance with America Britain Saudi Arabia etc. However Turkey in doing this has got the agreement that Turkey can bomb the Kurds.

This means we are in an alliance that is not just bombing Isis, but the Saudi part of the forces are bombing the Iranian backed groups fighting Isis, and now we are bombing the PKK the only group that allows religious freedom and actually encourages atheism.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/turkey-launches-biggest-attack-kurdish-militants

Look how that word 'militants' is used against the only group in the middle east that gives equal rights both sexes.

In 1984 George Orwell had big brother constantly changing sides in the war to keep it going. We are bombing (an act of war) as part of an alliance which is bombing everyone we don't even have to change sides the only common factor is a wish to bomb. If that had been in 1984 it would have seemed just too far fetched, but our taxes are paying for it.


Your simple them v us is a Joke! 

[Green Bottle]

Well said Nicola....

https://youtu.be/f0t9xWeDbhQ

[Munch]

I like Nicola, she's a clever leader.

But heres the thing, she's right that our countries are welcoming in giving refuge to immigrants and migrants, she's right about how open we are here.
But the problem is in what she mentioned about nicholas winton, he was a man who helped people flee from the nazi conflict decades ago. The problem is that back then, not only did we have people like him saving lives from a war torn land, but we were also fighting against the cause of these people fleeing, england and america were fighting against the nazis.

Unless the same action is taken against the cause of these migrants fleeing there lands now, attacking the groups causing this crisis, then no amount of good graces for helping refugees will really solve the problem, it will just make life harder for all.

No amount of leaders blaming each other for the death of children washed up on beaches will change it, because it will keep happening until the problem is dealt with at the source, like how it happened with the nazi occupation long ago.

Also, reality is a harsh bitch but its a matter of fact, an endless flow of refugees to europe, it will lead to civil unrest, with such a huge influx of people from countries with different outlooks, ideologies and standards when compared to the country they are immigrating to. Saying we need to be more welcoming isn't as easy as it sounds, because people of different cultures and beliefs don't gel together, even if Europeans are more accepting, the ways refugees act now in European countries will cause that unrest regardless.

She's right about it won't be an easy solution, maybe this push for refugees in these countries will force the union to go to war with the ones responsible for causing this, who knows.

[jonb]

Not quite munch.
The refugees from Germany came before the second world war started, and the Daily mail was still quite pro Hitler there was a great deal of resistance to the refugees then, but national history being what it is, the British like Americans and everyone else in the world only tend tell stories about the good bits of their history so we all can say we were nice guys.

From my point of view our politicians are not only not going to get a solution, but they are a good part of the problem.

Meanwhile we are in an alliance which is bombing christians and atheists along with muslims now.