What being a Christian "Was" like

[Game Master]

Up until about a year ago I was a Christian. The fact that I am here on this website now can tell you what I am now. Lately I have been thinking about what most Atheists think about Christians. How they are social hypocrites. Demanding they receive fair treatment while demanding America be a "Christian Society" Honestly, despite being Atheist, I still live with my parents and go to church every Sunday. The difference is that now I listen to the sermon for mistakes. Either way this has afforded me some better view into what Christianity is. I never saw my objective views and actions as hypocrisy, I saw them as right. I never actually accepted my views as narrow, or acknowledged the fact that my God accepted slavery and encouraged Sexism. Hell part of the bible damns anybody who wears clothes of mixed fabric to hell. I always saw what I was doing as good, I never thought "Oh this guy is of a different religion, let me belittle him" But somehow the situation always turned into just that. The problem is, the corruption of the church is so old that no Christian Acknowledges it any more, they just follow it, thinking it has always been that way.

I have found Christianity to be very flawed and narrow minded. Evidence of evolution is everywhere, yet no Christian accepts it.

I had a Christian ask me "Why don't you believe in God Sinner?"

"Well sir. I never said I believed God was not real. All I am saying is that until I see physical evidence, I will not believe in a deity"

he just could not accept that answer and told me to show evidence that God was fake. He got angry despite me not once telling him that his God was fake. I told him that I did personally do not believe in God because the evidence is lacking, yet somehow, my reply was an attack on his faith. In the end I had to walk away as more Christians started to try and defend him in an altercation of faith that simply did not exist.


Not long ago on Facebook after declaring proudly on my wall that I was Atheist and willing to debate any Christians I received a post from a little girl. I assume it was a girl, that name was feminine. The reason I know this person to be a child is the method of arguing, which was calling my ideas wrong, yelling, and backing off to be nice and explain their point with childish grammar and sentence structure. So the debate goes on (If it can be called a debate. It was more of me talking to a child who was trying to sound smart, piss me off, and prove me wrong) and eventually the child says "I hope you have been baptised so you will always be saved"

I sat back in my chair and stared at my ceiling, knowing full well this child was the exact same kind of Christian I had been. I sat there for a few seconds trying to process the stupidity in that statement. Obviously I knew far more about both side of the argument than this child. Having been Christian for 17 years up until that point and still going to church, I knew far more than this child. The problem was, this child thought that because I am Atheist, I knew less about God. The denomination this child was and probably is in follows the same rules as the one I go to church with now. This meant that Being Baptised is a sign that you understand Christ and are willing to follow him. Basically it really does nothing, it just shows that you have become part of the church. In now way does being Baptised show that you are always saved, at least not by the rules this child was following. In a single sentence this child proved to be less knowledgeable in a subject she believed in than a man who believed something different.

So I leaned forward and responded "Obviously you are less educated on your own religion than me because you just got your own rule wrong"

No response came for a few minutes, but when it did it was explosive.

"SHUT UP! MY HUSBAND TOLD ME WHAT IT REALLY MEANS! NO WAY AN ATHEIST KNOWS MORE ABOUT GOD THAN ME!"

We spoke a little longer and the child's mother walked in and found out what was going on. The whole time the child was pretending to be an adult, lying to me about her age, and having a husband, who turned out to be her father. (Weird)

The mother made the child go to bed and messaged me "Sorry she can get so heated. I am sorry that you fell away from God and I hope you find your way back. You have a good night sir"

The spelling was better, the punctuation was better, the speech style more mature. Obviously this was a different person. I responded
"This is how Christians should act. Tell you daughter not to argue over the internet, she might anger the wrong person. You have a nice night Ma'am"

To be honest the whole little argument was sad, the child pathetically outmatched. What does it say about a religion when even its followers know less about it than the people looking to prove it wrong? Does it speak ill of the followers, or does it speak good of the men and women trying to find the real answers?



As always I am open to any sort of debate. I love debating, it's a game to me. Go ahead and respond with what you want, just stay civil.

[Mr.Obvious]

Hey, Welcome to Our little band of heathens. Hope you like it here.
Most of us used to be religious once. I think most of us used to be christians. As was i.
I think you'll fit in.

[Shukhov]

What does it say about a religion when even its followers know less about it than the people looking to prove it wrong?

Nothing much. Religion isn't chosen in most cases, one is brainwashed in whatever fairy tale one parents believed. There is no need to looking for answers when you already have the Truth.

People looking to disprove religion must know more than run of the mill believer, otherwise it wouldn't be facts vs feels debate but feels vs feels shouting match.

Does it speak ill of the followers, or does it speak good of the men and women trying to find the real answers?

I would say that it make followers look stupid but religion isn't about knowing things, rather it's about touchy feelings and all that jazz. So not knowing one religion isn't reason to be proud but also isn't something to be ashamed off I would say.

[Baruch]

Facebook ... faceplant!

Hopefully in the scribblings here, you will find seeds for further development on your own path ;-)

[Mike Cl]

Nice intro.  Welcome.  Seems you should fit right in. 

[Blackleaf]

Your background sounds very similar to my own, but you found your senses earlier in your life than I did. I have to wonder, though, if you announced your atheism on Facebook, does that mean that your parents know about your lack of belief? If so, I hope for your sanity that they are not the same as my parents.

[marom1963]

I have a question - why do you still go to church? A bit masochistic, isn't it? I stopped going to church before I stopped believing in God. I had that much figured out. Then I figured out the rest. Seems like you've got a head start. Get out while you can.
By the by, to many Christians, just to say that you are an atheist is an assault upon their "strong" faith.

[widdershins]

I have found Christianity to be very flawed and narrow minded. Evidence of evolution is everywhere, yet no Christian accepts it.

WRONG!  The pope does!   

Just kidding.  But seriously, not all Christians deny evolution.  Besides that, of course atheists know more about religion that the religious do.  That is, after all, why most of us are atheists.  What tree was it, after all, that got us kicked out of paradise?  The Tree of Knowledge.  God NEEDS his followers to be uneducated because study after study shows that education kills gods.  More intelligent, more educated people are more likely to be atheists (and liberal, but that's besides the point of this conversation).

Anyway, you'll always find intelligent religious conversation here, though many of us tend to get a bit opinionated at times and, though we've all pretty much reached a higher level of understanding when it comes to religion, many of us still have a religious-like zealotry when it comes to other subjects, especially politics, so be ready for that if you stick around and poke into areas other than religion.

[Randy Carson]

Up until about a year ago I was a Christian. The fact that I am here on this website now can tell you what I am now. Lately I have been thinking about what most Atheists think about Christians. How they are social hypocrites. Demanding they receive fair treatment while demanding America be a "Christian Society" Honestly, despite being Atheist, I still live with my parents and go to church every Sunday. The difference is that now I listen to the sermon for mistakes. Either way this has afforded me some better view into what Christianity is. I never saw my objective views and actions as hypocrisy, I saw them as right. I never actually accepted my views as narrow, or acknowledged the fact that my God accepted slavery and encouraged Sexism. Hell part of the bible damns anybody who wears clothes of mixed fabric to hell. I always saw what I was doing as good, I never thought "Oh this guy is of a different religion, let me belittle him" But somehow the situation always turned into just that. The problem is, the corruption of the church is so old that no Christian Acknowledges it any more, they just follow it, thinking it has always been that way.

I have found Christianity to be very flawed and narrow minded. Evidence of evolution is everywhere, yet no Christian accepts it.

I had a Christian ask me "Why don't you believe in God Sinner?"

"Well sir. I never said I believed God was not real. All I am saying is that until I see physical evidence, I will not believe in a deity"

he just could not accept that answer and told me to show evidence that God was fake. He got angry despite me not once telling him that his God was fake. I told him that I did personally do not believe in God because the evidence is lacking, yet somehow, my reply was an attack on his faith. In the end I had to walk away as more Christians started to try and defend him in an altercation of faith that simply did not exist.


Not long ago on Facebook after declaring proudly on my wall that I was Atheist and willing to debate any Christians I received a post from a little girl. I assume it was a girl, that name was feminine. The reason I know this person to be a child is the method of arguing, which was calling my ideas wrong, yelling, and backing off to be nice and explain their point with childish grammar and sentence structure. So the debate goes on (If it can be called a debate. It was more of me talking to a child who was trying to sound smart, piss me off, and prove me wrong) and eventually the child says "I hope you have been baptised so you will always be saved"

I sat back in my chair and stared at my ceiling, knowing full well this child was the exact same kind of Christian I had been. I sat there for a few seconds trying to process the stupidity in that statement. Obviously I knew far more about both side of the argument than this child. Having been Christian for 17 years up until that point and still going to church, I knew far more than this child. The problem was, this child thought that because I am Atheist, I knew less about God. The denomination this child was and probably is in follows the same rules as the one I go to church with now. This meant that Being Baptised is a sign that you understand Christ and are willing to follow him. Basically it really does nothing, it just shows that you have become part of the church. In now way does being Baptised show that you are always saved, at least not by the rules this child was following. In a single sentence this child proved to be less knowledgeable in a subject she believed in than a man who believed something different.

So I leaned forward and responded "Obviously you are less educated on your own religion than me because you just got your own rule wrong"

No response came for a few minutes, but when it did it was explosive.

"SHUT UP! MY HUSBAND TOLD ME WHAT IT REALLY MEANS! NO WAY AN ATHEIST KNOWS MORE ABOUT GOD THAN ME!"

We spoke a little longer and the child's mother walked in and found out what was going on. The whole time the child was pretending to be an adult, lying to me about her age, and having a husband, who turned out to be her father. (Weird)

The mother made the child go to bed and messaged me "Sorry she can get so heated. I am sorry that you fell away from God and I hope you find your way back. You have a good night sir"

The spelling was better, the punctuation was better, the speech style more mature. Obviously this was a different person. I responded
"This is how Christians should act. Tell you daughter not to argue over the internet, she might anger the wrong person. You have a nice night Ma'am"

To be honest the whole little argument was sad, the child pathetically outmatched. What does it say about a religion when even its followers know less about it than the people looking to prove it wrong? Does it speak ill of the followers, or does it speak good of the men and women trying to find the real answers?



As always I am open to any sort of debate. I love debating, it's a game to me. Go ahead and respond with what you want, just stay civil.

And what would you say, young man, if you were to find yourself in a discussion with someone who knows considerably more than you about these things?

There are MANY errors in your post. Care to review them?

[Blackleaf]

And what would you say, young man, if you were to find yourself in a discussion with someone who knows considerably more than you about these things?

There are MANY errors in your post. Care to review them?

Errors in a factual story of something that happened to him? Care to point them out? The possibility of a knowledgible Christian isn't an error. It is a fact that the majority of Christians do not know their own Bible because they're too lazy to read it. The vast majority just repeat what their pastor tells them to think.

[Randy Carson]

Errors in a factual story of something that happened to him? Care to point them out?

Sure. The OP wrote:

This meant that Being Baptised is a sign that you understand Christ and are willing to follow him. Basically it really does nothing, it just shows that you have become part of the church.

While it is true that we enter the Church through baptism, it is incorrect that baptism "does nothing" nor is it merely a "sign". Baptism regenerates the soul, washes away the stain of original sin, and for those old enough to have committed personal sins, cleanses from the guilt of these, also. IOW, Baptism is a powerful sacrament that brings "new life" to the soul. It is through baptism that we are born again.

One other point: implicit in the OP's explanation is the idea from his Protestant denomination that infants cannot be baptized because they cannot "understand Christ" and be "willing to follow him". This, too, is an error. Infants were baptized in the NT and from the very earliest days of the Church. Denying infant baptism is one of the great errors of some branches of Protestantism.

Ironically, the OP commits the very mistake you noted below; he's simply parroting what his preacher has taught him without fully understanding the reasons why these views are neither biblical nor historical.

The possibility of a knowledgible Christian isn't an error. It is a fact that the majority of Christians do not know their own Bible because they're too lazy to read it. The vast majority just repeat what their pastor tells them to think.

Perhaps. But in my own experience, most Christians are far more knowledgeable about the doctrines of the faith than the former Christians who now consider themselves to be atheists.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Blackleaf]

Randy, you're speaking from your own Catholic religious doctrine like it's the only one that matters. Clearly, the OP was not a Catholic. Additionally, although it would be irrelevant in this case, you offered us no reason to see your Catholic beliefs as...better than the doctrine described by the OP. You might as well have said, "Your opinion is wrong. My opinion is better because I said so."

[Randy Carson]

Randy, you're speaking from your own Catholic religious doctrine like it's the only one that matters. Clearly, the OP was not a Catholic. Additionally, although it would be irrelevant in this case, you offered us no reason to see your Catholic beliefs as...better than the doctrine described by the OP. You might as well have said, "Your opinion is wrong. My opinion is better because I said so."

Aside from the fact that the Catholic Church existed for 1,500 years before any Protestant denomination, I would be happy to provide a point-by-point, verse-by-verse explanation of why Protestant doctrines which disagree with Catholic doctrine are flawed.

Let me know where you would like to begin.

And FWIW, it might be nice to hear from the OP at this point. It's been more than a week since he made this-his first and only post. Waddya think?

[reasonist]

Aside from the fact that the Catholic Church existed for 1,500 years before any Protestant denomination, I would be happy to provide a point-by-point, verse-by-verse explanation of why Protestant doctrines which disagree with Catholic doctrine are flawed.

By that criteria the RCC is flawed because the Pagan religions existed long before your cult.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

By that criteria the RCC is flawed because the Pagan religions existed long before your cult.

And the animist religions before that.