What's so irritating about Christians?

[aitm]

By definition there were no christians before christ, by observation, none since- tjb

[Baruch]

It's always struck me that a pastor even posting on this site should mean there's quite a bit of doubt there.  No fear of automatically going to H E double dirty q-tips? OH REALLLLYYYY? How do you know we aren't just gods little spies just waiting for one of your kind to amble in so we can say GOTCHA! ?
I'm calling big spooky right now!  Little spooky died for your sins,but not the sin of hanging out with KNOWN DEVIL WORSHIPPERS! HAHAHAHAHA!

It is part of the pastoral system, that the Devil likes to target pastors, priests and elders in particular ... because their failure is maximally damaging.

[Mike Cl]

I'm kind of mystified about how so many people actually think that you being a pastor somehow gives you some super secret magical powers of knowledge and insight into the inner workings of everyone's minds, but I have full faith that in the coming weeks and months you'll reveal to your flock the errors of our ways  and to reassure them that they are and will always be far superior to us..

Yes, I agree that is mystifying.  And it is also mystifying as to why the catholic clergy thinks it can give marriage advice.  And why the laity takes it.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

What is the biggest criticism of modern Christians?  What makes them less credible or heard in society and on an individual level today?

Claiming to follow the Bible whilst practicing little to none of what's actually in it. Christian moderates are basically secular humanists paying lip-service to a religion next to no one follows.

[PickelledEggs]

Claiming to follow the Bible whilst practicing little to none of what's actually in it. Christian moderates are basically secular humanists paying lip-service to a religion next to no one follows.

I would argue that following it literally is more annoying The more literal you are to the bible, the more you reject reality and push your beliefs on to other people's lives. I'd take a moderate over a literalist any day of the week. It's a bit hipocrytical, but I'd rather someone embrace reality more than the cult-rulebook they follow, even if it's slightly, although... obviously, the more they reject their fantasy book, the better.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I would argue that following it literally is more annoying The more literal you are to the bible, the more you reject reality and push your beliefs on to other people's lives. I'd take a moderate over a literalist any day of the week. It's a bit hipocrytical, but I'd rather someone embrace reality more than the cult-rulebook they follow, even if it's slightly, although... obviously, the more they reject their fantasy book, the better.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that they've chosen to be moderate. It just annoys me that they won't take credit for the fact that they don't spend their lives being dicks to other people.

[PickelledEggs]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that they've chosen to be moderate. It just annoys me that they won't take credit for the fact that they don't spend their lives being dicks to other people.

lol

[Blackleaf]

Hello everyone!  To be honest I am a Pastor who loves God with my whole heart.   However,  I am not here to preach or condemn anyone!!!!!  I wanted to pose this question and see if anyone would be willing to interact with me: What is the biggest criticism of modern Christians?  What makes them less credible or heard in society and on an individual level today?

I appreciate you taking the effort to ask us what we think, instead of just telling us what we think like most do. Or as people in your position as pastor often do: tell others what we think based convenient strawmen arguments. I'll do my best to answer in the most thorough way I can.

First of all, Christians come in many different kinds. Since I spent the majority of my life as a Christian, and I've changed denominations more than once, I've seen some of these differences firsthand. However, there are certain things most have in common, especially with the Conservative groups.

1. All have the right answer, which is obviously true, but they disagree on what it is. If the truth was so obvious, why would they disagree?

2. They're hypocrites. This is the number one thing that bothers me about Christians. It bothered me when I was a Christian, and it bothers me now. There are so many ways that Christians are hypocritical, but here's a few examples:

a. Help! Help! We're being repressed! Christians love to play the victims, while oppressing others themselves. Recent history gave us the fight of the Christian church to prevent gay rights to marriage. The motivation? To enforce the Christian definition of marriage on everyone else. You don't believe in God? Too bad! You still have to live according to our interpretation of our religious texts! Oh, no! The Supreme Court ruled gay marriage as legal? Christianity is under attack! If you can't see how this is acting hypocritical, try this mental exercise: Watch God's Not Dead 2 and imagine all the Christian characters are muslims. Would you still support their cause?

b. We're all sinners, and all have fallen short of the glory of God. And yet, Conservative Christians are the most judgmental people I've ever seen. I remember every time Halloween rolled around, many would try to ruin everyone else's fun by trying to convince their congregation not to celebrate it. Then the holier-than-thou looks down on the ones who dared let their kids dress as cartoon characters and princesses and collect candy. Every Christian was a self-proclaimed expert on right and wrong, and wouldn't hesitate to treat others as lesser Christians for their "sinful" choices. And they have the NERVE to claim to be humble. Please.

c. Christians behave differently in church and religious gatherings than they do anywhere else. But who can blame them? If they tried acting spiritual in secular settings, they'd look like complete idiots. But this goes beyond just the spiritual jargon and behaviors, this extends to how they apply what they believe as well. As soon as they leave church, they're tailgating, running red lights, cutting people off, and driving 20 miles per hour over the speed limit to get to their restaurant of choice, where they'll be impatient with the waiter and leave no tip. They then go home and verbally (and sometimes physically) abuse their kids over things that don't matter. Christians do not show any extra amount of compassion. If anything, they show less. Ask any waiter who's had to serve Christian groups before. They never have any customers so rude, so impatient, so demanding, who leave no tips as rewards for putting up with them.

3. Christianity is used to slow down progress. This has always been the case. Christians have always been the slowest to accept positive changes in social issues. They condemned medical treatment, they supported racial segregation, they denied scientific knowledge. For a specific example, look at the practice of spanking as a form of discipline. Scientists have known for a long time that spanking is ineffective, counterproductive, and has negative consequences. Yet Christian organizations continue to promote corporal punishment, such as Focus on the Family, completely disregarding the evidence. Why? Because of one vague verse in the Old Testament. Without Christians to slow everything down, the world would be a better place.

4. Christians don't try to learn. They only repeat what they're told. In fact, "intellectual" is a word I often heard used as a derogatory label. They have no evidence, but they expect us to believe what they say because...well, they believe it. And their faith apparently has more credit than the faith of Muslims or any other religious group, so we should listen to them.

[widdershins]

I would argue that following it literally is more annoying The more literal you are to the bible, the more you reject reality and push your beliefs on to other people's lives. I'd take a moderate over a literalist any day of the week. It's a bit hipocrytical, but I'd rather someone embrace reality more than the cult-rulebook they follow, even if it's slightly, although... obviously, the more they reject their fantasy book, the better.

Following the Bible literally is absolutely impossible.  How do you reconcile "Thou shalt not kill" with "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"?  This is especially impossible in a land where killing a witch IS murder and "witches" seem to be the new "hippies".  So it's not like you can't find a witch (someone claiming to be a "witch" as the Bible never really specifies what a witch is, though any given fundy will tell you that they're Satan worshipers).

[stromboli]

That stupid fucking Roman torture device jewelry. Fuck it, the dude's gone. rip him up.


Lol. Seriously I think he was expecting some gripes, not a load of essays.

[Mike Cl]

I think you were right, Strom, he was here gathering material for a sermon--or a series of sermons--using the material gathered here.  He looks like a drive-by in that I don't expect he will ever return.

[Blackleaf]

That stupid fucking Roman torture device jewelry. Fuck it, the dude's gone. rip him up.


Lol. Seriously I think he was expecting some gripes, not a load of essays.

Ask, and you shall receive. He came here asking for our input. I'm not going to assume that just because he's a Christian pastor that he has some hidden agenda.

[Mike Cl]

Ask, and you shall receive. He came here asking for our input. I'm not going to assume that just because he's a Christian pastor that he has some hidden agenda.

I, on the other hand, will assume he is here for some hidden agenda---BECAUSE he is a christian pastor.  He is part of the hierarchy that is set to sheer the sheeple.  And he cannot tell all to them, for if he does, they will no longer be his sheeple.  What christian leader does not have a hidden agenda????

[widdershins]

I, on the other hand, will assume he is here for some hidden agenda---BECAUSE he is a christian pastor.  He is part of the hierarchy that is set to sheer the sheeple.  And he cannot tell all to them, for if he does, they will no longer be his sheeple.  What christian leader does not have a hidden agenda????

I'm going to have to agree with that assessment.  He greeted us warmly, assured us he wasn't here to condemn us, then went right on to ask his question, which he bolded.  And what did he want to know?  What makes Christians less heard in society?  He wanted to know why people didn't listen to him more and, presumably, what he could do to fix it.  This was followed by what appears to be little more than, "Thank you and good bye".

Now, some of the answers he got were, shall we say, less than cordial.  It is entirely possible that he didn't want to fight and was really just curious and, given some of the combative responses, perhaps he didn't see us as paying the same respect he believed he was paying us and decided it would be best to not come back.  That's perfectly plausible and reasonable, actually.  But then I go back to the question he asked.  He wanted to know the reason more people didn't listen to him.  Why that?  Not, "Why don't you believe?"  Not, "What can I do to save your souls?"  But "What makes people not want to listen to me?"

We have all seen the Christian who thinks he's being sly by pretending to be just a nice, intelligent person here with the simply goal of understanding us only to be blind-sided by some hidden agenda.  We all read their questions as if they're loaded, because they usually are.  That's why the responses he got were not as cordial as he was.  Because, in our experience, Christians are slimy manipulators who will try to mind-fuck you at every turn.  Because how else do you get intelligent adults to believe that magic is real and they'll live forever after they die?  Many of them know they're outmatched when they talk to atheists.  If they've ever had a conversation with an intelligent atheist, one whose views are the result of reason and critical thought, they've likely been bitten in the ass before trying to out-smart said atheist and have learned that they can't use intelligent points to convince us, they have to use trickery to get us to make a mistake, which will prove to them how wrong we are.  I fully believe that most Christians who engage atheists don't do so to convince atheists, they do so to convince themselves.  Faith is such an ignorant concept that deep down most intelligent people are fully aware that just accepting fantastical stories "because" is stupid, so they have to routinely convince themselves that it's not.  They have to "win" arguments with atheists to prove to themselves that they're not idiots who believe in fairy tales with, really, no reason whatsoever to believe it.  They do, after all, believe in magic "just because".  It takes some work to keep a mentality that obviously unintelligent.  So they come to places like this, and they often come angry.  They need to provoke us, to make us lash out so that they can convince themselves how angry and combative we are, how evil our intentions are.  I don't know that I've ever seen a conversation here which was in the least bit about convincing us that magic is real.  At least the great majority of the "preachers" here have been about fighting their own brain telling them that belief in magic is childish.  They need some "victory" to tell them that God is on their side and that they are doing the right thing.  They need to know that we can't adequately answer all of their questions (once they've dismissed all of the answers as wrong).  They need to confirm that, without God, we are angry, bitter people (once they've provoked us into an angry response).  They need to see that we are unwilling to listen to reason, banning them when we can't take any more (of them saying the same stupid shit over and over).

So, I think it's perfectly fair to assume that any time a Christian comes here claiming good intentions, he's full of shit, because that is the way of things.

[stromboli]

I have known and worked with too many Christian pastors to think otherwise. He is mentally armored against any conversion on our part. The only other reason to be on the forum is information gathering.