Tough Guise - Issues MRA Should Actually Address

[Sal1981]

What is a real man? And a real woman?

I mean, apart from identifying biological differences in the reproductive organs, it seems to me that culture has a too high a role in playing in who we are, instead of what kind of life and experiences we go through; and how could culture influence that? Our lives and experiences are so subjective with very few common traits and experiences happening throughout our lives.

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I can't help but feel that, from my own personal experiences growing up in the Faroes, a "real man" was someone who, at around 14-years old went out to sea to prepare to become the bread-winner, to become hardened by the sea, to come back home to the Faroes with a big fat paycheck from working on the seas and buy a house and find a wife, a life partner, to have kids of my own and raise a family of my own with a loving wife and partner. As a kid, I had these childish dreams and hopes, just like the neighbors kids did. I don't know where I'm going with this. Just my 2 cents from what sort of cultural image of what was expected and what simplistic view existed growing up around these parts.

Isn't it just about equality? Equal opportunity and not hindering one another? IDK.

[PickelledEggs]

Feminists and MRAs deserve each other.

Like night and day, one can't exist without the other.

[Nonsensei]

It must be great to just read the parts that you want to read without giving any thoughts to the parts you dislike. I don't know the type of people you grew up around, but I grew up around a lot of strong, intelligent women and don't feel in the least threatened by them. Still,  pretending that feminism is some kind of threat speaks volumes about your insecurity.

I don't suppose I could convince you to point out where exactly i asserted that i dislike strong, intelligent women and consider feminism a threat.

[GSOgymrat]

Thanks for posting the video. He made a lot of good points.

[pr126]

Opposite ends of the spectrum. We always here more from them than from the middle ground.

Here = place as in here, there

Hear =hearing - listening as in hear me, I am here next to you, talking English grammar.

[Nonsensei]

Here = place as in here, there

Hear =hearing - listening as in hear me, I am here next to you, talking English grammar.

Really man? On top of everything else, you also want to be a grammar nazi?

[drunkenshoe]

I don't suppose I could convince you to point out where exactly i asserted that i dislike strong, intelligent women and consider feminism a threat.

Whoaaa...stop there. Stop. I have never seen this kind of blatant lying. *Whistles.

You are not a new member here, Nonsensei. You called feminists 'femicunts' and 'feminazis', and personally me, several times.

Your posts reeked of hatred ffs.

[drunkenshoe]

A poster who screamed to me -literally in post- "how much feminists hate man and they want to castrate men" -word by word just a couple of years ago, insulted me with every derog term available is now claiming that he has nothing against feminism or feminist. E: Not just me by the way. I remember him saying the same to mermaid and Smarzie.

You are so full of shit, Nonsensei, you just reached new heights as far as the phrase goes...


Fuck this shit. Seriously. You people deserve every bullshit coming from those SJWs and more. I am not equipped to deal with a sticky hypocrisy on this level. Don't have the stomach for it.

[Nonsensei]

A poster who screamed to me -literally in post- "how much feminists hate man and they want to castrate men" -word by word just a couple of years ago, insulted me with every derog term available is now claiming that he has nothing against feminism or feminist. E: Not just me by the way. I remember him saying the same to mermaid and Smarzie.

You are so full of shit, Nonsensei, you just reached new heights as far as the phrase goes...


Fuck this shit. Seriously. You people deserve every bullshit coming from those SJWs and more. I am not equipped to deal with a sticky hypocrisy on this level. Don't have the stomach for it.

You see DS, you are far better off not dealing in objective realities. The problem with your utter bullshit assertion about me is that there is such a thing as a POST HISTORY on these forums. In my case I can look at ALLLLL of my posts going ALLL the way back to 2013. And guess what? I just did exactly that!

The most insulting thing I have ever said to you was that you use drama tactics to derail a thread and make everything about you. Not much has changed. The reality is that, shortly after seeing you post for the first time ever here I have made it a point to respond to you as little as possible. In fact, in that entire 50 pages of post history going back to 2013 i directly addressed you maybe 15 times EVER. The overwhelming majorty of those posts were to point out that you make free use of strawman and drama tactics to muddy the waters.

Go ahead. Look at my post history. Show me where I called you anything derogatory. Show me where I ever suggested that feminists want to "castrate all men" or whatever the fuck the wording was that you made up.

This is a fascinating window into your mind. I've tried pretty hard to avoid talking to you at all, but on the few times I have, I've dared to disagree with you. Somehow that simple act tansformed me in your mind into some sexist psychopath who said who knows what. But then the reality of the posts history intrudes, proving that I never did or said any such thing. You really do just think or believe whatever you like, dont you? Reality be damned.

[Jack89]

I took the time to watch the OP's  video in its entirety and while there were some good points made, especially in the first half, it didn't address several things that I think are critical to the subject of masculinity.  It didn't discuss the physical difference between men and women, to include hormonal differences and brain structure.  It didn't discuss the traditional masculine role of protector and provider.  It didn't discuss the need for a positive masculine role models in child rearing. The overall message of the video equated traditional masculinity with needless violence and that men needed to be more vulnerable and express their emotions better. 
While cleverly presented, this is feminist propaganda geared toward making men more feminine.  Sure, men need to be responsible and treat women, children and each other in a caring and respectful manner, but men need to also step up and be courageous, strong, competitive, and even violent when necessary. 

[Shiranu]

It didn't discuss the physical difference between men and women, to include hormonal differences and brain structure.

Assuming that all men and women aren't more or less the same, which is scientifically wrong and completely disregards everyone who identifies as something between a "true" male and "true" woman.


Seriously, people act like women are some entirely different species. They aren't.

It didn't discuss the need for a positive masculine role models in child rearing.

Scientific proof of this need warranted?

The overall message of the video equated traditional masculinity with needless violence and that men needed to be more vulnerable and express their emotions better. 

Part one is true in our culture (or at least that it is a part of our culture), and part two is something men definitely need to be if they want to be without backlash.

...this is feminist propaganda geared toward making men more feminine.

So telling men it's okay to not fit their assigned gender and instead be themselves is making them more "feminine". That's sexist towards men, and just another example of the reason feminism and the concept of "male privilege" is so important... because that privilege also means you will be torn down even harsher by "your group" if you don't meet their expectations, and feminism addresses that.

...but men need to also step up and be courageous, strong, competitive, and even violent when necessary.

And so do women. To be courageous, strong, competitive have absolutely nothing to do with gender, and that's the point... by imposing that these are things a man "have to be" to be "a man", you are engaging in sexism against men by saying, "You have no worth as an individual, only as a  stereotype of what your penis means you should be". And this is so engrained in our culture we actually think that's okay.

[Nonsensei]

Except its not just him who is applying that stereotype to men, is it? Women also expect men to display all of those qualities or they think less of those men that don't.

For men, courage and strength are expected or even demanded. For women, courage and strength are exceptional and unusual (in the eyes of society). Its a two way sexism that fucks both genders while being perpetrated by both genders. This is a perfect example of why gender issues aren't an 'us v them' thing.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

And people wonder why I don't generally voice my full opinions in these threads. Being a moderate/centrist is the most controversial position of them all.


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).

[Nonsensei]

I don't see why holding a controversial opinion should stop you from voicing it. If everyone did that there would be nothing to talk about.

[Shiranu]

Except its not just him who is applying that stereotype to men, is it? Women also expect men to display all of those qualities or they think less of those men that don't.

For men, courage and strength are expected or even demanded. For women, courage and strength are exceptional and unusual (in the eyes of society). Its a two way sexism that fucks both genders while being perpetrated by both genders. This is a perfect example of why gender issues aren't an 'us v them' thing.

Edit - doing this on my phone is a major pain in the ass, but no I don't think women do it remotely to the same extent because of personal experience and basic group dynamics and sociology.

And yet that is exactly what you are making it in your opening statements. You literally cannot address ANY men's issue without it coming down to, "but...but... Women! They are bad too!".

The fact of the matter that the pressures on men to "be men" are felt strongest from people within the same group as you. This is not just to do with sex, but a simple matter of group sociology... If you do not adhere to the norm, you face more pressure from within than from without. It is also more humiliating to let your group down.

And I can only speak from personal experience, but I have never had a woman harass me for not being manly enough. I have never had a group of women who don't even know me drive by and yell, "fucking die, you faggot!" because my body shape leans towards the "stereotypical" slender and wider hipped gay body. I have never had women pressure me to like certain things, to hide how I feel about others, because it wasn't "manly" enough. I was never beaten up when I was younger by women who thought I wasn't a normal boy. I can't say the same for men.

Yes, women contribute to these things and I know they are out there, but that's because women are a part of society... A male centric society... And are taught that those things are not manly. But not being part of the in group the average woman is simply not as invested in putting men down like other men are.

It's like saying, "but men insult women too!" when addressing the judgment that goes on within female communities towards women who don't fit the average mold... It's a pointless statement that detracts from the main issue.