Doing the wrong thing just because....

[surly74]

it's quite humourous now. what a sad little person.

is it me or are the forums getting angrier?

[Sal1981]

it's quite humourous now. what a sad little person.

is it me or are the forums getting angrier?

IDK.

All I do know is that people presenting an issue all the while denigrating anyone that disagrees is losing focus of the issue at hand. We're only human, and we don't like being denigrated for whatever reason.

[Johan]

Again with the condescending crap.  The fact is you keep avoiding the issue and choose to go into insults. So as for you there is no reasonable discussion. I feel pitty for people like you who lack the ability to actually deal with reality.

i deal quite well with reality so please save your pity for those who will appreciate it. I think I have been addressing the issue pretty directly. You believe that people who do things for reasons you don't understand or agree with must have some sort of medical condition which needs to be fixed. If I'm wrong about that then by all means my good man please explain exactly what the issue is.

[mykcob4]

You're being a bit of an asshole there, mykcob. I'm not even in this discussion and it's easily visible to me as well. Everyone is trying to be nice, and you're just being a dick to everyone while constantly whining about how people aren't treating you nicely enough.

Oh I'm being an asshole when the first reponse to this thread was hillbilly accusing me of wanting to drug people just because they don't agree with my views on guns. The thread isn't even about guns. It's like an NBA foul where the person that retaliates to being fouled is called for the foul because they stood up for themself.
Nobody is trying to be nice and thats fine, I didn't ask for "nice." I wanted to discuss the phenomenon concerning the general public reacting to propaganda and acting against their own best interest. I asked if it was a psycological medical condition not unlike Stockholm Syndrom or mass hysteria, but obviously there are some that want to make wild assumptions, insult, and not even address the issue. There have been some that actually consider the issue and offered tangible post that can be considered.  There are still those who choose to be smarmy smartellics and make PERSONAL ATTACKS!
Back to the issue: I think that we as a nation have a situation not unlike the 1930s Germany where by a small minority was controlled by propaganda and the rest of that country just went along with it to their detrement.

[mykcob4]

it's quite humourous now. what a sad little person.

is it me or are the forums getting angrier?

Funny. You can't address the issue so you resort to personal attacks. How "BIG" of you.

[mykcob4]

Again with the condescending crap.  The fact is you keep avoiding the issue and choose to go into insults. So as for you there is no reasonable discussion. I feel pitty for people like you who lack the ability to actually deal with reality.

i deal quite well with reality so please save your pity for those who will appreciate it. I think I have been addressing the issue pretty directly. You believe that people who do things for reasons you don't understand or agree with must have some sort of medical condition which needs to be fixed. If I'm wrong about that then by all means my good man please explain exactly what the issue is.

Not quite Johan. I have presented the issue in many ways that even the simplest minds should comprehend. You don't know what I think and what you state that I think isn't true at all. I don't care what part of the political aisle you or anyone hails from(meaning the general public not you particularly) the fact is that the general public in many cases react against their interest in response to propaganda. I questioned why that is, if it was a medical condition. I didn't suggest medicating or druging anyone. I didn't offer ANY solution. I asked if there was a reason for the situation and if so what could be done about it. From that you and others made all manner of wild accuzations, that I wanted to medicate people that I didn't agree with or understand. That is ludicrous!

[Johan]

Not quite Johan. I have presented the issue in many ways that even the simplest minds should comprehend.

Now who is insulting whom?

You don't know what I think and what you state that I think isn't true at all.

The same can said of you my friend.

I don't care what part of the political aisle you or anyone hails from(meaning the general public not you particularly) the fact is that the general public in many cases react against their interest in response to propaganda.

Well yeah. That's exactly what propaganda is designed to do. It presents only one side of an issue, usually in a distorted way, with the intention of getting members of the general public to react in such a way as they would not normally react absent the propaganda.

Not for nothing but suggesting that people might need to be fixed because they do things as a result of being exposed to propaganda is like suggesting that there is something wrong with matches because they burn when you strike them. They catch on fire when you flick them across the striker because the striker is designed to set them on fire. To be blunt, duh.

I questioned why that is, if it was a medical condition. I didn't suggest medicating or druging anyone. I didn't offer ANY solution. I asked if there was a reason for the situation and if so what could be done about it.

Oh so you were simply questioning whether or not it was a medical condition. Well that makes more sense. But that's also not really how I remember it going down. Lets take a ride on the way back machine and go all the way back to your first post in this thread.

This is a real problem and is the core with what is wrong with this nation. If we could medically address the psychological phenomenon we could actually cure some deep seat social ills.

There is no question mark on this statement. You are not questioning anything in this quote. You are suggesting medical treatment which in case you weren't aware of it, is very definitely offering a solution. And you gave absolutely no indication that you are unsure whether or not any medical condition exists.

Now to be clear, I'm not calling you a liar. But if you're going to get your panties in bunch when people misunderstand what you're trying to say, you might want to consider learning to put your ideas into words more accurately. Just a suggestion.

[billhilly]

My response to your OP didn't have anything to do with you using guns as one of your examples.  It had everything to do with your statement here:

This is a real problem and is the core with what is wrong with this nation. If we could medically address the psychological phenomenon we could actually cure some deep seat social ills.
What causes people to act completely against their best interest? What allows seemingly well educated people to succumb to propaganda and efforts by the morally socially corrupt? Is there anything that can cure this problem? What is the cause and root of this problem?

The root cause of your "problem" is that some people disagree with you.  I'm sorry you got your little feelers hurt but your statement assumes this as fact and only questions the cause and what to do about it.

Back to the issue: I think that we as a nation have a situation not unlike the 1930s Germany where by a small minority was controlled by propaganda and the rest of that country just went along with it to their detrement.

Nice Godwin BTW............

[surly74]

it's quite humourous now. what a sad little person.

is it me or are the forums getting angrier?

Funny. You can't address the issue so you resort to personal attacks. How "BIG" of you.

I read the links and all but two say we aren't in a runaway green house effect, jst that if the planet continues down this path it will be irreversible which is correct but nothing really new here (for me). the other two that say "irreversible" in the title explain things a bit more and hedge their bets in the article.

Cars aren't really the problem, just wanted to see what you would say. Ending landfills, ok...i guess.

My long post which wasn't exactly directed at you (but you can read it) but it goes to my understanding of the CO2 cycle and what needs to happen for a runaway green house effect (the end of life on earth). Short answer is it will happen anyway as the sun gets hotter but I won't have to worry about it. for me, like anything education is the key. If you don't recognize global warming or climate change it's typically because of two reasons:

1. ignorance on the subject
2. tend to not believe it if you don't like the outcome

really its not any different then religion but this does have real world consequences.
 
I've stated what I know, why I know it and where you can go to find out as well. I'm not saying I'm correct just what I think. moving on...

Don't fall into the trap of entitled poster who thinks they can speak to anyone anyway you want but no one can do the same. Don't assume everyone has to listen to your opinion and treat it with respect no matter how it sounds but if anyone challenges you on it you have the right to call names, be condescending, really anything you want. Don't be that guy.

[mykcob4]

it's quite humourous now. what a sad little person.

is it me or are the forums getting angrier?

Funny. You can't address the issue so you resort to personal attacks. How "BIG" of you.

I read the links and all but two say we aren't in a runaway green house effect, jst that if the planet continues down this path it will be irreversible which is correct but nothing really new here (for me). the other two that say "irreversible" in the title explain things a bit more and hedge their bets in the article.

Cars aren't really the problem, just wanted to see what you would say. Ending landfills, ok...i guess.

My long post which wasn't exactly directed at you (but you can read it) but it goes to my understanding of the CO2 cycle and what needs to happen for a runaway green house effect (the end of life on earth). Short answer is it will happen anyway as the sun gets hotter but I won't have to worry about it. for me, like anything education is the key. If you don't recognize global warming or climate change it's typically because of two reasons:

1. ignorance on the subject
2. tend to not believe it if you don't like the outcome

really its not any different then religion but this does have real world consequences.
 
I've stated what I know, why I know it and where you can go to find out as well. I'm not saying I'm correct just what I think. moving on...

Don't fall into the trap of entitled poster who thinks they can speak to anyone anyway you want but no one can do the same. Don't assume everyone has to listen to your opinion and treat it with respect no matter how it sounds but if anyone challenges you on it you have the right to call names, be condescending, really anything you want. Don't be that guy.

My understanding of climate change comes from many sources but extensively from the Kyoto Accord that stated that the Earth has climatic cycles beyond our control but those cycles work in balance with nature. These cycles are effected by many factors but with the onset of the Industrial Revolution man has caused an imbalance that has adversely effected the cycle which if not addressed will usher in a warming cycle that cannot be reversed. Thus it is the reasonable action to reduce CO2 emmissions to the point that the Earth can absorb and deal with the CO2 in the most natural way possible. Therefore the Accord contended that one solution would to enact carbon credits so that emmissions would in effect be reduced and more widely dispursed throughout the entire globe and revenues from such an action could be used for research and positive action to bring the Earth closer to a natural balance. The oli industry balked at the scientific data and launched a wide and expensive campaign of propaganda with pseudo-science to counter the facts. They financed such organizations like the Heritage Foundation which is nothing more than a propaganda mill that counters REAL think tanks like the Brookings Institute. Because the propaganda was commercial comprehensive and out spent the fact producers by a margin of nearly $100,000 to $1, the public bought into the propaganda. China, Russia, India, and the United States rejected the Kyoto Accord. Only Brazil responded responsibly and correctly to the Accords findings. Funny how Brazil has a robust economy with less dependence of oil than the other nations mentioned and has a pollution rate the size of Kansas.
This is the crux of my thread. Propaganda is shoved down peoples throats and they buy into it against their own best interest. It has long been shown that converting this nation to a green economy would not only reduce our carbon footprint, make us less dependent on oil and foriegn oil, but will create a sustainable industry that will boom our economy.

[surly74]

My understanding of climate change comes from many sources but extensively from the Kyoto Accord that stated that the Earth has climatic cycles beyond our control but those cycles work in balance with nature. These cycles are effected by many factors but with the onset of the Industrial Revolution man has caused an imbalance that has adversely effected the cycle which if not addressed will usher in a warming cycle that cannot be reversed.

the CO2 cycle is probably what they are referring to. if more CO2 is introduced outside of the normal cycle then the reverse effect is the runaway green house.

Canada is the first country to remove itself from Kyoto. If countries like China and India were exempt from it and were some of the worst polluters why be part of it?

Thus it is the reasonable action to reduce CO2 emmissions to the point that the Earth can absorb and deal with the CO2 in the most natural way possible. Therefore the Accord contended that one solution would to enact carbon credits so that emmissions would in effect be reduced and more widely dispursed throughout the entire globe and revenues from such an action could be used for research and positive action to bring the Earth closer to a natural balance.

I probably don't know as much as i should about this but I see carbon credits the same as my province's drive clean program. One of the reasons for Canada leaving was it would have had to pay 14B for credits with no impact on the environment. No fucking way.

The oli industry balked at the scientific data and launched a wide and expensive campaign of propaganda with pseudo-science to counter the facts. They financed such organizations like the Heritage Foundation which is nothing more than a propaganda mill that counters REAL think tanks like the Brookings Institute. Because the propaganda was commercial comprehensive and out spent the fact producers by a margin of nearly $100,000 to $1, the public bought into the propaganda. China, Russia, India, and the United States rejected the Kyoto Accord. Only Brazil responded responsibly and correctly to the Accords findings. Funny how Brazil has a robust economy with less dependence of oil than the other nations mentioned and has a pollution rate the size of Kansas.

The main opponent to man made climate change is the amount of CO2 put out naturally is exponentially higher than man ever could. Not sure I believe it based on the evidence but lobby groups wouldn't be around if they didn't work. as for oil balking...no surprise there.

China is the problem, and the US. until those two countries are reigned back nothing will change, no matter how many Brazils there are.

This is the crux of my thread. Propaganda is shoved down peoples throats and they buy into it against their own best interest. It has long been shown that converting this nation to a green economy would not only reduce our carbon footprint, make us less dependent on oil and foriegn oil, but will create a sustainable industry that will boom our economy.

I agree that propaganda is shoved down people's throats. Look at the movies today, Red Dawn and Olympus has Fallen scream propaganda from a war front. Ultimately the crux of my posts are that people have many best interests and cannot be boiled down to one area. It is not as simple as that. I understand your passion, i share it and with two young children (and a third in another month) I look at things long term. What kind of life will they have, my grand children? what kind of world will be left for my descendents when I am gone? it's scary to think about considering what we are seeing.

People only change when they feel pain. That's the only time. If you have made a change in anything it's because you have felt some sort of pain (not always physical pain) and can be tracked back to it. Society will only change when it feels pain. governments will only change when they feel pain. there is not enough pain for the US or China to change their ways.

[mykcob4]

My understanding of climate change comes from many sources but extensively from the Kyoto Accord that stated that the Earth has climatic cycles beyond our control but those cycles work in balance with nature. These cycles are effected by many factors but with the onset of the Industrial Revolution man has caused an imbalance that has adversely effected the cycle which if not addressed will usher in a warming cycle that cannot be reversed.

the CO2 cycle is probably what they are referring to. if more CO2 is introduced outside of the normal cycle then the reverse effect is the runaway green house.

Canada is the first country to remove itself from Kyoto. If countries like China and India were exempt from it and were some of the worst polluters why be part of it?

Thus it is the reasonable action to reduce CO2 emmissions to the point that the Earth can absorb and deal with the CO2 in the most natural way possible. Therefore the Accord contended that one solution would to enact carbon credits so that emmissions would in effect be reduced and more widely dispursed throughout the entire globe and revenues from such an action could be used for research and positive action to bring the Earth closer to a natural balance.

I probably don't know as much as i should about this but I see carbon credits the same as my province's drive clean program. One of the reasons for Canada leaving was it would have had to pay 14B for credits with no impact on the environment. No fucking way.

The oli industry balked at the scientific data and launched a wide and expensive campaign of propaganda with pseudo-science to counter the facts. They financed such organizations like the Heritage Foundation which is nothing more than a propaganda mill that counters REAL think tanks like the Brookings Institute. Because the propaganda was commercial comprehensive and out spent the fact producers by a margin of nearly $100,000 to $1, the public bought into the propaganda. China, Russia, India, and the United States rejected the Kyoto Accord. Only Brazil responded responsibly and correctly to the Accords findings. Funny how Brazil has a robust economy with less dependence of oil than the other nations mentioned and has a pollution rate the size of Kansas.

The main opponent to man made climate change is the amount of CO2 put out naturally is exponentially higher than man ever could. Not sure I believe it based on the evidence but lobby groups wouldn't be around if they didn't work. as for oil balking...no surprise there.

China is the problem, and the US. until those two countries are reigned back nothing will change, no matter how many Brazils there are.

This is the crux of my thread. Propaganda is shoved down peoples throats and they buy into it against their own best interest. It has long been shown that converting this nation to a green economy would not only reduce our carbon footprint, make us less dependent on oil and foriegn oil, but will create a sustainable industry that will boom our economy.

I agree that propaganda is shoved down people's throats. Look at the movies today, Red Dawn and Olympus has Fallen scream propaganda from a war front. Ultimately the crux of my posts are that people have many best interests and cannot be boiled down to one area. It is not as simple as that. I understand your passion, i share it and with two young children (and a third in another month) I look at things long term. What kind of life will they have, my grand children? what kind of world will be left for my descendents when I am gone? it's scary to think about considering what we are seeing.

People only change when they feel pain. That's the only time. If you have made a change in anything it's because you have felt some sort of pain (not always physical pain) and can be tracked back to it. Society will only change when it feels pain. governments will only change when they feel pain. there is not enough pain for the US or China to change their ways.

Brazil didn't feel pain they saw an oppertunity and took it.

[mykcob4]

Not quite Johan. I have presented the issue in many ways that even the simplest minds should comprehend.

Now who is insulting whom?

You don't know what I think and what you state that I think isn't true at all.

The same can said of you my friend.

I don't care what part of the political aisle you or anyone hails from(meaning the general public not you particularly) the fact is that the general public in many cases react against their interest in response to propaganda.

Well yeah. That's exactly what propaganda is designed to do. It presents only one side of an issue, usually in a distorted way, with the intention of getting members of the general public to react in such a way as they would not normally react absent the propaganda.

Not for nothing but suggesting that people might need to be fixed because they do things as a result of being exposed to propaganda is like suggesting that there is something wrong with matches because they burn when you strike them. They catch on fire when you flick them across the striker because the striker is designed to set them on fire. To be blunt, duh.

I questioned why that is, if it was a medical condition. I didn't suggest medicating or druging anyone. I didn't offer ANY solution. I asked if there was a reason for the situation and if so what could be done about it.

Oh so you were simply questioning whether or not it was a medical condition. Well that makes more sense. But that's also not really how I remember it going down. Lets take a ride on the way back machine and go all the way back to your first post in this thread.

This is a real problem and is the core with what is wrong with this nation. If we could medically address the psychological phenomenon we could actually cure some deep seat social ills.

There is no question mark on this statement. You are not questioning anything in this quote. You are suggesting medical treatment which in case you weren't aware of it, is very definitely offering a solution. And you gave absolutely no indication that you are unsure whether or not any medical condition exists.

Now to be clear, I'm not calling you a liar. But if you're going to get your panties in bunch when people misunderstand what you're trying to say, you might want to consider learning to put your ideas into words more accurately. Just a suggestion.

You're right, you aren't worth it!

[mykcob4]

My response to your OP didn't have anything to do with you using guns as one of your examples.  It had everything to do with your statement here:

This is a real problem and is the core with what is wrong with this nation. If we could medically address the psychological phenomenon we could actually cure some deep seat social ills.
What causes people to act completely against their best interest? What allows seemingly well educated people to succumb to propaganda and efforts by the morally socially corrupt? Is there anything that can cure this problem? What is the cause and root of this problem?

The root cause of your "problem" is that some people disagree with you.  I'm sorry you got your little feelers hurt but your statement assumes this as fact and only questions the cause and what to do about it.

Back to the issue: I think that we as a nation have a situation not unlike the 1930s Germany where by a small minority was controlled by propaganda and the rest of that country just went along with it to their detrement.

Nice Godwin BTW............

What an utter lie. Here's your post and it has everything to do with your opposition to my view on guns:"Medically address the psychological phenomenon? So you want to medically "treat" people who disagree with you eh? I'm not surprised after reading some of your other posts. I actually agree with you on some issues and not on others. Do I get a half dose? Seriously, you're not helping you side of any argument with calls for doping people. I'm still not sure you're not a POE. If you're not, you're a good reason for your neighbors to own weapons."
So it is YOUR interjection of the gun issue and your assumption about what I mean about medically addressing the proplem that YOU made an issue here, not the issue of the thread at all.

[surly74]

Brazil didn't feel pain they saw an oppertunity and took it.

they would have some sort felt pain. you may not know what it is but the pain to motivate change is there.

whatever the motivation was good on them. wish more countries cough China cough would do this.