What can we do?

[reasonist]

At one point we have to ask ourselves what our objectives are. Are we content to preach to the choir here (and sometimes to trolls) or do we want a cultural change towards the enlightenment? What CAN we do to change the intellectual landscape? While the religious right is well organized, from powerful Washington lobby groups and school boards to the Supreme Court, us Atheists have no relevant voice in public discourse. There is no united voice of reason amidst the ugly face of fundamentalism. We need a leader, a 'Pope' (no not me lol) who is not afraid to speak the truth. The atheist groups and organizations that exist are like independent islands in a sea of religiosity. There is no strength in numbers, no collective action against the forces of theism.
So, what are our options?

[Munch]

Reason is a development of an evolving society. If you try and push an ideology on people, it becomes a cult, so the only way to progress forward is to express what you yourself think, and hope others see the same, see the alternative to what they have been indoctrinated into following, and just hope it spreads out more and reason becomes the norm.

[Sal1981]

As long it's not another Atheism+ debacle, best we can do is educate and inform.

Sent from my ST23i using Tapatalk

[Nonsensei]

I think we are far more effective unorganized. We are always there, in large enough numbers (5%) to continually remind everyone that they believe a fairy tale.

But because we are not centralized in any way we are afforded a certain level of unassailability. We can be individually confronted, but they cant point to a "church" of Atheism, if you will, and suggest that its just another manmade organization out to exert influence and power over others (a claim that would be made right before summarily dismissing atheism in its entirety).

You can tell religious people really, REALLY wish they could do this as evidenced by their repeated attempts to label atheism as just being another religion.

[Shiranu]

... us Atheists have no relevant voice in public discourse.

Why should we?

There is no united voice of reason amidst the ugly face of fundamentalism.

And an atheist lobby would change this? Do you think "moderate" atheists would make up the bulk of this group, or would it be more anti-theists and people who make atheism a part of their identity who would put in the effort to combat this? And what are anti-theists but fundamentalistic atheists who believe their way is the only right way and anyone who disagrees is a fool and a danger?

The issue of fundamentalism is fought against by the religious and atheist alike. It is not a matter of team A vs team B.

We need a leader, a 'Pope' (no not me lol) who is not afraid to speak the truth.

Again, your "truth" as an atheist might differ from mine. Mine is simply there is no god... I am apathetic at best towards religion, and have no qualms with it so long as it does not interfere with me. This is vastly different to the "truth" of anti-theists who think religion is abhorrent and must be destroyed and, frankly, would be the one's who would be representing me under this group.

If there was a drastic need for atheistic representation that would be one thing, but there isn't. Secularism is not an atheist-only club, and secularism is far more important to the world than atheism.

[aitm]

The idea that an atheist would support another atheist simply because they are an atheist is why I detest Democrats, Republicans and anyone who votes simply because they are of the same "ilk". Atheist are for the most part, honest enough to understand they don't support each other simply because they are categorized in the same clique.

[doorknob]

I understand what you are getting at but I would say there is nothing really wrong with secular groups as they are. Yes they are pockets here and there but so is christianity. Christians are not unified either. They agree christ is their lord that's about it. I guess some cults don't even believe that.

Atheists are the same. We all agree that we don't believe in god. That's about it. We are all individuals with different opinions.

[reasonist]

Surprising answers for sure. I can only speak for myself but I have no dogma to defend, only a serious disdain of religious influence on public life general and politics in particular. While I appreciate the noble thoughts expressed, I wish the religious right would extend the same courtesy. Unfortunately that is not the case. We see the meddling influence every day from gay rights to stem cell research. 300,000 churches tax free in the US, 25,000 in Canada, which amounts to state subsidy. The push to teach ID in our schools, the coverup of sexual predators to this day, religious wars around the globe and the discrimination of women are just a few of the direct results of religious dogmas. Until recent history any confession of unbelief meant certain death but today I can and must speak out.
I owe it to my children and grand children.

[Hydra009]

Surprising answers for sure. I can only speak for myself but I have no dogma to defend, only a serious disdain of religious influence on public life general and politics in particular. While I appreciate the noble thoughts expressed, I wish the religious right would extend the same courtesy. Unfortunately that is not the case. We see the meddling influence every day from gay rights to stem cell research. 300,000 churches tax free in the US, 25,000 in Canada, which amounts to state subsidy. The push to teach ID in our schools, the coverup of sexual predators to this day, religious wars around the globe and the discrimination of women are just a few of the direct results of religious dogmas. Until recent history any confession of unbelief meant certain death but today I can and must speak out.
I owe it to my children and grand children.

Right, but the best way to oppose this sort of thing is by being involved with various coalitions allied against the encroachments of the religious right.  That way, we can pool our efforts with like-minded theists.  Forming some sort of atheist party would not be particularly productive.

[stromboli]

For personal reasons I do things I don't mention on here like send emails and letters to senators and reps about legalizing Marijuana. Personal because of my wife's illness. Results are the people that are already pro agree, those that aren't don't. At least Mike Lee isn't hitting me up for donations any more.

We do have the ability to inform on specific issues. I am on three forums, 2 ex- Mormon forums helping people leave the cult. It is a very traumatic situation that causes breaking up of families, divorce, loss of children and so on. I have counseled probably 6-10 youthful people who were borderline suicides.

Nothing wrong with getting involved in what issues you are affected by. That is just me. I always take a proactive stance, unlike what I suspect is the majority on here. Nobody ever gave me anything and anything I wanted I worked for. So I work for it, proactively. You accomplish nothing by doing nothing.

[LittleNipper]

Surprising answers for sure. I can only speak for myself but I have no dogma to defend, only a serious disdain of religious influence on public life general and politics in particular. While I appreciate the noble thoughts expressed, I wish the religious right would extend the same courtesy. Unfortunately that is not the case. We see the meddling influence every day from gay rights to stem cell research. 300,000 churches tax free in the US, 25,000 in Canada, which amounts to state subsidy. The push to teach ID in our schools, the coverup of sexual predators to this day, religious wars around the globe and the discrimination of women are just a few of the direct results of religious dogmas. Until recent history any confession of unbelief meant certain death but today I can and must speak out.
I owe it to my children and grand children.

So, your little grandchild comes to you and asks, "Will I go to heaven if I were to die tomorrow?" And I must suppose your response would be, "No, you will simply rot in the ground, unless we decide to burn your body. But we will miss you just the same." Somehow I don't suppose you'd paint what you believe to be the truth because that truth holds no hope of any reunion.

As for churches being tax free, this is not true. Every congregant and every church worker (from custodian to pastor) pays taxes). And very often church buildings are used by the State for voting places. And the simple fact is that the same applies to public schools ---- they don't pay taxes either. But then why would they? They are places of education, as are churches (whether you agree with what is being taught or not). 

[Hydra009]

Here comes exhibit A for why we need secular organizations in the first place.  *laughs but cries a little bit*

So, your little grandchild comes to you and asks, "Will I go to heaven if I were to die tomorrow?" And I must suppose your response would be, "No, you will simply rot in the ground, unless we decide to burn your body. But we will miss you just the same." Somehow I don't suppose you'd paint what you believe to be the truth because that truth holds no hope of any reunion.

Thanks for the sermon, Preacher, but totally besides the point.

As for churches being tax free, this is not true. Every congregant and every church worker (from custodian to pastor) pays taxes).

We're obviously talking about property taxes.  And no, churches don't pay that.

And very often church buildings are used by the State for voting places.

Which probably isn't a great an idea, come to think of it.  But in lots of podunk towns, without a lot of real estate open to the general public that can be easily converted into a polling place, it makes sense that they select churches.  Besides, helping out the community and actually doing something useful every now and then seems like a pretty good deal for the tax-exempt status.

And the simple fact is that the same applies to public schools ---- they don't pay taxes either. But then why would they? They are places of education, as are churches (whether you agree with what is being taught or not).

Schools educate people and aren't exactly known as money-making machines.  Basically, they're the exact oppose of churches.

[Mike Cl]

So, your little grandchild comes to you and asks, "Will I go to heaven if I were to die tomorrow?" And I must suppose your response would be, "No, you will simply rot in the ground, unless we decide to burn your body. But we will miss you just the same." Somehow I don't suppose you'd paint what you believe to be the truth because that truth holds no hope of any reunion.

Yes, that is exactly what I have told my grandchildren.  When they ask serious questions, I answer with the truth, and not some sick fantasy that you believe in.  And my grandchildren are not the type to melt into the carpet in puddles of tears because they won't go to heaven.  They realize that heaven is a fantasy, just as Santa is.  And the Tooth Fairy.  All of those are fantasies.  Yet they also understand that the fantasy of Santa and the Tooth Fairy exist because of a particular need, just as heaven is.  Go ahead and lie to your grandchildren.  One day they will realize just how sick your little fantasies are.

[Mike Cl]

As for churches being tax free, this is not true. Every congregant and every church worker (from custodian to pastor) pays taxes). And very often church buildings are used by the State for voting places. And the simple fact is that the same applies to public schools ---- they don't pay taxes either. But then why would they? They are places of education, as are churches (whether you agree with what is being taught or not).

Once again you would not know a fact, simple or complicated, if it walked up and slapped you upside the head.  Churches do not 'teach'--they spread lies and fantasies.  Public Schools are supposed to be owned and run by all of us, the public at large.  Churches benefit only those that squeeze money and talent out of those that are suckered to attend.  They are private business and need to pay taxes just as other business do. 

[stromboli]

So, your little grandchild comes to you and asks, "Will I go to heaven if I were to die tomorrow?" And I must suppose your response would be, "No, you will simply rot in the ground, unless we decide to burn your body. But we will miss you just the same." Somehow I don't suppose you'd paint what you believe to be the truth because that truth holds no hope of any reunion.

As for churches being tax free, this is not true. Every congregant and every church worker (from custodian to pastor) pays taxes). And very often church buildings are used by the State for voting places. And the simple fact is that the same applies to public schools ---- they don't pay taxes either. But then why would they? They are places of education, as are churches (whether you agree with what is being taught or not). 

Chuirches aren't places of education because what they are "educating" is nothing but indoctrination into fabricated beliefs. Case in point: it I go to an Assembly of God I get educated that speaking in tongues is all important. Free will Baptist quotes different scriptures (1 Cor 12) that says speaking in tongues is pointless. So different sects disagree on what to educate.

Explain why megachurches and richest pastors (10 richest)
https://www.naij.com/302279-meet-the-top-10-richest-pastors-in-the-world.html

are close mouthed about how much they give to charity and drive around in limousines and own mansions. Jesus said:

“Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own” (Matt 6:33, 34).

“If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving (Luke 18:22-23a) and he went away “very sad, for he was extremely rich” (Luke 18:23b).

Pat Robertson is worth between 100 million and a billion dollars. He has a mansion sitting on a mountain top in Tennessee. He has two jets. Every broadcast he runs a strip along the bottom of the screen urging donations and showing who has donated. He has been involved in gold mining and other schemes that were illegal, but attempts to prosecute are stifled by legislators he has contributed heavily to.

The churches insist that people pray for their needs and will hopefully get them, but demand money to run the church. God is supposed to help the needy, why doesn't he help the church?

Churches are exempt from property taxes and pastors houses (parsonage exemption) also exempt. You see anything in the bible about megachurches?

You saying that all churches are not corrupt? No one is taking advantage of people? Horseshit. You are either the dumbest theist we've had on here or demented.