Students refusing to join in school prayer during lunch

[josephpalazzo]

Of course, it isn't compulsory, and if they get bullied and ostracized, well it's their fault...

[Solomon Zorn]

That's fucked-up.

[Hydra009]

I don't have a problem with prayer in schools, but does it have to be so conspicuous and disruptive?  Is it just not possible to do the before meal prayer without forming a human ring around everyone else?  Fuck, and I thought blocking the main doors in front of the school was obnoxious.

[hrdlr110]

This photo doesn't tell the whole story. There are likely a % of those that are standing/praying, that lack belief, as those that remain seated, but lack the courage to sit. And what was the purpose of the photo I wonder? And what was the opinion of the photographer?

[TrueStory]

I remember in grade school that the jehovoh witness kids didn't say god during the pledge of allegiance, at some point i stopped as well because I was agnostic but my story doesn't really have a point.  At that time I still didn't understand that people believed in magic.

[Munch]

that lunch hall needs some students to bring in some wubs and marilyn manson tracks to drown out the prayer, calling it THEIR  own religious thing.

Praying is a fucking annoyance, inside the cult buildings like churchs they can pray all they want, but in a public place its clear how the mental dissonance of these people is nothing more the caveman mentality, careless for how it effects others.

[Blackleaf]

Apparently, these people never read the passage that says to pray in secret, or else God won't reward you.

Matthew 6:5-6 - "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

[josephpalazzo]

Apparently, these people never read the passage that says to pray in secret, or else God won't reward you.

Matthew 6:5-6 - "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Yes that is true if you consider that religion is a private thing. However, religion will more often than not sneak out into the public arena where it meets with politics and then it becomes a dangerous instrument of repression.

[GSOgymrat]

If prayer like this took place when I was in high school I would have sat at the table quietly reading my book, loving every minute of it.

[SGOS]

If prayer like this took place when I was in high school I would have sat at the table quietly reading my book, loving every minute of it.

When I was in high school, I was a Christian, but being called to prayer over my sack lunch would have still been annoying to me.  I just wanted to eat my cheese sandwich and horse around with my friends.  It would not have been out of the question for me to ignore the thing and rebel against additional prayer in school.  It's school for crying out loud, not a church.  Christian that I was, I didn't feel the need to be praying at every opportunity.  And this particular event would have struck me as unnecessary and contrived.

[Baruch]

When I was in high school, I was a Christian, but being called to prayer over my sack lunch would have still been annoying to me.  I just wanted to eat my cheese sandwich and horse around with my friends.  It would not have been out of the question for me to ignore the thing and rebel against additional prayer in school.  It's school for crying out loud, not a church.  Christian that I was, I didn't feel the need to be praying at every opportunity.  And this particular event would have struck me as unnecessary and contrived.

It is contrived ... the teens aren't legally culpable for good reason ... but they are inspired by adult politics ... they are being used as tools by adults ... usually Republican, Evangelical, or both.

[Mike Cl]

Apparently, these people never read the passage that says to pray in secret, or else God won't reward you.

Matthew 6:5-6 - "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

I've trotted this passage out more than once when people were openly praying.

[Baruch]

I've trotted this passage out more than once when people were openly praying.

I have found it cruel to educate the religious ;-)

[Draconic Aiur]

The only site that has this story. Gee, I wonder why.
http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/education/2016/02/25/hollister-schools-told-halt-organized-prayer-restrict-ministers-access-students/80923292/

It started when a Hollister parent saw a video, widely shared on social media, showing a local youth minister leading students in a midday prayer at the middle school.

The alarmed parent reached out to the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which sent a letter to Hollister Superintendent Brian Wilson. The Feb. 10 letter stated the organized prayer was an "egregious violation of the First Amendment and must be stopped immediately."

"The video depicts an adult leading the entire lunchroom in a prayer with all of the students surrounding him in a circle," Patrick Elliott, the foundation's attorney, wrote in the letter. "The parent's child also reports that students were directed in a similar prayer all of last week and this week as well during the seventh-grade lunch."

At this point, the foundation â€" which posted the video on its website â€" has not ruled out the possibility of taking legal action.

Wilson acknowledged that the prayer happened but clarified that it was not a school-sanctioned event or a regular occurrence. "This was student-led, it was student initiated."

The superintendent said students have long engaged in prayer during lunch. He noted it started at one cafeteria table and, over time, spread to others.

Wilson said a a minister from the Tri-Lakes chapter of KLIFE, an interdenominational Christian ministry for youth and their families, was visiting the school when a student asked him to pray. He said the minister obliged, apparently unaware that it was against policy.

"After we were made aware of that, we addressed the issue," he said.

Wilson said students can exercise their First Amendment right to pray in school, if they want to, and the district has communicated the rules governing activities during the school day to KLIFE and other community visitors. But, the district will still permit visitors and student groups that want to meet before and after school.

"We don't want to close the door to the community," he said.

In the letter, the Wisconsin-based foundation demanded Hollister put an end to "organized prayer" during lunch, discipline any employees that allow the prayers to take place and bar KLIFE representatives from visiting schools.

The foundation's website states it works to "protect the constitutional principle of separation between state and church."

"When the school grants KLIFE ministers access to students, it advances KLIFE's mission of proselytizing. In many cases, we have found that similar youth programs use schools to befriend students with the goal of spreading a religious message and recruiting members for their youth groups," Elliott wrote in the letter. "No religious organization should have direct access to students at school."The foundation referred to such visits as "predatory conduct."

Elliott told the News-Leader that the foundation has yet to receive a formal reply from Hollister or assurances that ministers will be barred from visiting.

Wilson said the district acknowledged the first letter, addressed the situation and responded to a Sunshine Law request from the foundation. Any other correspondence from the foundation has been referred to the district's attorney.

Asked if he planned to respond to the foundation, Wilson said he preferred to spend time educating students.

He added that as of Thursday, no parent or student had contacted the district to express concern about the prayer and that the only question has come from the foundation. "We still acted to do our due diligence."

Elliott said it is irrelevant if many families in the Hollister community are OK with the school prayer, it is not allowed in a public school setting.

“It is well settled as a matter of established law that public schools may not advance, prefer or promote religion,” Elliott said, in a statement released to the media. “It is unconstitutional for a public school to allow an evangelical Christian organization to impose prayer on all students. Giving the group access to all students as part of school programming suggests that the school district has preference not only for religion over non-religion, but also evangelical Christianity over other faiths.

"This sort of entanglement between religion and public education is inappropriate.”

He added that until the foundation receives assurances that such behavior will cease, the possibility of legal action will remain.

"We are really monitoring what is going on," he said.

A review of the website for the Tri-Lakes chapter of KLIFE shows that in addition to Hollister, the outreach also has programs available to students in nearby districts, including Branson and Reeds Spring.

The News-Leader reached out, seeking comment from Robert Bruce, director of the Tri-Lakes chapter of KLIFE, but has not yet heard back.

The foundation also wrote letters to the Branson and Reeds Spring districts, demanding each investigate the amount of access it provides to "predatory evangelists."

"Given the egregious constitutional violations that we were alerted to taking place in Hollister school district," Elliott wrote in the letter to the other districts, "...We request that you investigate whether similar activities are taking place."

Branson Superintendent Brad Swofford said that, after receiving the letter, the district checked with its junior high and high school leadership and "concluded that we had not violated our policies."

Swofford added: "We were not accused of anything, we were just asked for assurance in how we handle these things."

[Mike Cl]

I have found it cruel to educate the religious ;-)

Me too--which is why I like to do it.