A Response Towards "Racist Stereotyping" of White Culture's Racism

[mauricio]

As far as I remember you are not white. I don't get most of your reactions. It feels like everything that has a protest and resistence against traditional norms, rules agitate/offend you. It's the dynamic of protest.

E: I am trying to get your perspectve, don't get offended. 

Do you find Richard Dawkins offensive? Honest question.

Protests combined with inflamatory rhetoric and emotionally unstable people are generally retarded and only lead to polarization and violence. Look at all the anarchist/communist/fascists protests of the last years in europe. Look at unkraine. The protests slowly scalated violence into civil war between neighbooring ethnic groups. Really weird how you call out the bullshit of inflamatory rhetoric from youtubers that have not actually ever organized their fans into protests where people get assaulted and their rights violated unlike BLM.

[mauricio]

I personally find white people being offended by this very white and nothing else. Please get offended a

Nice racism there. I find it very womanly how you were unable to understand how criticizing a method as uneffective. Has nothing to do with what you posted. What does it matter thant other methods you mentioned are also uneffective? His claim was not that these other methods are more effective just that this specific methods sucks, which you did not even try address by agreeing or disagreeing with that assesment.

[Shiranu]

The world is much bigger than kendrick lamar and his personal struggles. We cannot abdicate to unreasonableness, hatred and falsehoods no matter how much understandable it is for that person to feel or think that way.

And again... where does Kendrick hate white people? Where is he spreading falsehood? Where is he being unreasonable?

I never see anyone bring up "No no you cant HATE Islamists! You cant HATE child rapists! You gotta be reasonable about these people!"... but when it something that actually is closer to home all of the sudden we cry we gotta stay calm and we gotta stay reasonable. That seems like some bullshit.

Ultimately if as that poster says black people get more and more radical they are only gonna get scalation of violence where the first thing that will die is reasonable and sensible solutions. It might even be that it already died from what you see from BLM protests and rhetoric.

That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.

We have to stop this hyperbolic rhetoric and talk firmly but with politeness, reason and evidence.

You think African Americans haven't tried to peacefully bring attention to this issue? What happens when they do... oh... that's right... "Shut up not all cops are evil! All lives matter! THERE IS NO PROBLEM STOP COMPLAINING!!!"

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

I disagree. Being neutral is a perfectly valid option.

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.” - Desmond Tutu

[mauricio]

BTW there's things you can do to subvert the state power in clever ways like using grey and black markets and counter economics to subvert the laws banning certain products and services. Piracy, drug trade and underground prostitution are great examples of this. You can also use proper civil disobedience which is you as an individual refusing to abide to unfair laws, not you violating the rights of others. This is something many BLM protestors need to understand.

[chill98]

ok so today I read more about Kendrick Lamar than I have in the years since he was born.  I think the facebook person totally messed up the interpretation of that song.

Full lyrics:

http://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-the-blacker-the-berry-lyrics

Rolling Stone interview:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-trials-of-kendrick-lamar-cover-story-20150622

From wiki article on song:

The song, however, contains a deeper meaning of the dangers of hypocrisy. Every verse in the song begins with "I'm the biggest hypocrite of 2015", followed by Lamar stating issues of racism in society. The final lyric â€" "So why did I weep when Trayvon Martin was in the street? / When gang banging make me kill a nigga blacker than me? / Hypocrite! " â€" reframes the meaning of the piece, and demonstrates an internal struggle within Lamar and the African-American community about issues of racism and events such as the death of Trayvon Martin. Lamar notes the hypocrisy of black men mourning Martin's death while also themselves committing violent acts against black men, forcing the listener to consider the complexity and perhaps inevitability of the hypocrisy discussed throughout the song

Not only did I read about Lamar, I refreshed my memory on Marcus Garvey:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_enemy.html

My conclusion?  Nobody on Facebook knows what they are talking about.

[mauricio]

And again... where does Kendrick hate white people? Where is he spreading falsehood? Where is he being unreasonable?

I never see anyone bring up "No no you cant HATE Islamists! You cant HATE child rapists! You gotta be reasonable about these people!"... but when it something that actually is closer to home all of the sudden we cry we gotta stay calm and we gotta stay reasonable. That seems like some bullshit.

That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.

You think African Americans haven't tried to peacefully bring attention to this issue? What happens when they do... oh... that's right... "Shut up not all cops are evil! All lives matter! THERE IS NO PROBLEM STOP COMPLAINING!!!"

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.” - Desmond Tutu

Where is kendrick being unreasonable and spreading falsehoods? I know you cannot possibly be this stupid. Why are you being purposefuly dense?

And "Shut up not all cops are evil!" is a perfectly reasonable response to unreasonable claims, that you have it so backwards is really telling. You have drank the koolaid.

[Shiranu]

ok so today I read more about Kendrick Lamar than I have in the years since he was born.  I think the facebook person totally messed up the interpretation of that song.

Full lyrics:

http://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-the-blacker-the-berry-lyrics

Rolling Stone interview:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-trials-of-kendrick-lamar-cover-story-20150622

From wiki article on song:

Not only did I read about Lamar, I refreshed my memory on Marcus Garvey:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_enemy.html

My conclusion?  Nobody on Facebook knows what they are talking about.

This. "The Blacker the Berry" is an absolutely beautiful song of inner-reflection on how he views the situation and an internal struggle on criticising white-on-black bigotry when there is so much black-on-black violence happening.

But I don't think it's an either/or situation... and judging by Lamar's body of work I don't think he does either. He criticises the gang bangers left and right and he critcises the racism of America's culture left and right.

It's why I have to find the people judging Lamar from a few bars hilarious... because the depth of his message is more than just "Oh I read a line from "The Blacker the Berry" or "Blackboy fly" or "Good kidd m.a.a.d. City" and can judge him solely on that!". To call him hateful is to jump on the anti-hype train.

[Shiranu]

Where is kendrick being unreasonable and spreading falsehoods? I know you cannot possibly be this stupid. Why are you being purposefuly dense?

...riiight. Your the one claiming he is spreading falsehoods and being unreasonable. So please... quote from me the song in question... "Blacker the Berry"... where he is doing either of those things. Please.

You're the one claiming a multi-grammy winning artist who is being praised for his social commentary is a liar so... that burden of proof is on you.

And "Shut up not all cops are evil!" is a perfectly reasonable response to unreasonable claims, that you have it so backwards is really telling. You have drank the koolaid.

"Cops are gunning down too many black and poor people in the street."
"SHUT UP COPS ARE GOOD PEOPLE!"

Yes. Totally reasonable. And that is an argument I have straight up seen here on the forum. facebook... okay... whatever. But here? Come on now. fuck your koolaide you just buy into the comfortable narrative that everything is hunky dorry and how could anyone ever complain about it?

[mauricio]

That's really easy to say when it's not you who has to worry about being beaten... choked... shot and killed in the streets by the people pledged to protect you. That's easy to say when it's not you or your family getting incarcerated at much higher rates than whites for the exact same crime. It's much easier to say "stay calm" when it's not you growing up in poverty and a shitty education system based upon generations of apartheid and segregation.

Go fuck yourself this is nothing but the typical ad hominems and emotional appeals. Not a single attempt to somehow demonstrate any good is going to come from any of this protests. Im racial minority in a thirdworld country I have been kidnapped at gun point by a police officers in civilian clothing that did not identify himself for the first hour that he held me while i shit my fucking pants then he proceeded to rob me and force me to sign a fake report of the incident in which i was the aggresor while he held me i was so scared thinking he was a rapist or a psycho that i was really close to jumping for his gun which would have only end up badly for me but i decided to endure whatever this fucker wanted me for after he had already taken my possesions because i thought that would be better than dying right there. Others have profiled me and assaulted me and robbed and harrased me and threatened me too including police and gang members, from the top of my head i remenber no less than 20 of this accidents in a period of 3 years when i actually had a social life and went outside regularly. Go fucking drink kool aid if that makes you feel virtuous.

[mauricio]

...riiight. Your the one claiming he is spreading falsehoods and being unreasonable. So please... quote from me the song in question... "Blacker the Berry"... where he is doing either of those things. Please.

You're the one claiming a multi-grammy winning artist who is being praised for his social commentary is a liar so... that burden of proof is on you.

"Cops are gunning down too many black and poor people in the street."
"SHUT UP COPS ARE GOOD PEOPLE!"

Yes. Totally reasonable. And that is an argument I have straight up seen here on the forum. facebook... okay... whatever. But here? Come on now. fuck your koolaide you just buy into the comfortable narrative that everything is hunky dorry and how could anyone ever complain about it?

Jesus christ you are fucking moron the claim was not about "shut up cops are good people" you imbecile you just fucking changed the words when the quotes are right there. Do you really think people are just not gonna notice you rewriting the claim in the middle of the fucking argument? And yes pointing out that  "Shut up not all cops are evil! " is perfectly reasonable when some BLM people seem to think all white cops are white supremacists deathsquads.

[Shiranu]

Righty o then.

[chill98]

This. "The Blacker the Berry" is an absolutely beautiful song of inner-reflection on how he views the situation and an internal struggle on criticising white-on-black bigotry when there is so much black-on-black violence happening.

But I don't think it's an either/or situation... and judging by Lamar's body of work I don't think he does either. He criticises the gang bangers left and right and he critcises the racism of America's culture left and right.

It's why I have to find the people judging Lamar from a few bars hilarious... because the depth of his message is more than just "Oh I read a line from "The Blacker the Berry" or "Blackboy fly" or "Good kidd m.a.a.d. City" and can judge him solely on that!". To call him hateful is to jump on the anti-hype train.

I found the lyrics I read very interesting. The man has talent.  But in reality, what does he truly know about racism?  From the rolling stone article, he says, there were no white faces in his school.  He was a straight A student but still chose the gangbanger path.  That was not due to racism.  No where does he describe being turned down for a job, or even applying for one.  His goal was music and achieved that at approx the same age as Justin Beiber.   He talks about rumors on the street about a friend of his domestic violence police encounter that ended with the buddy being shot by the cops.  That happens all the time in white america too. 

http://nypost.com/2016/02/16/cops-shoot-man-who-attacked-wife-and-kids-police/

I honestly dont know if Larmar is hateful, but he represents that in his music.  That is exactly what he is describing his feelings before he reflects on his own responsibilities.  And it is based on heresay, not real life, because in real life, he was at least associating with gangbangers when the cops gave him shit, and clearly implies being up to no good when confronted a 2nd time.   So show me where he describes experiencing racism?

And sucking in the youth who listen to him.  As we see from Facebook.  Because the OP there believes it.  And I quote:

So, you have a choice as a white person: are you going to be offended by and object to a prejudice against you offered by a man who has been experienced a lifetime of prejudice and institutional racism or are you going to speak out against the blatant and overt racism that has him feeling this way against your people?...

Or just call it bullshit?

[Baruch]

There will always be Uncle Toms ... and other stereotypes from classical race literature.  Some African-Americans are too comfortable, too under the Stockholm Syndrome ,,, that they are going to lose all they have gained, because the selfishly supportive liberals will choose to drop their support just because ... and Cornel West will say "I told you so".

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Look,  if you've never really seen or experienced blatant racism and disregard for human life go spend a day sitting in the local court room with a white judge in a mostly black town and watch the racism in all it's glory.  You won't hear the judge say the word nigger or any other racial slur. Oh no..They're professionals after all. What you will very likely see are a lot of black men and women get mercilessly slapped with heavy fines they can't possibly pay and outrageous jail time for minor charges.
I've been there. I stood in court and kept my mouth shut even though the judge let me go home for my offense while a black man charged with the very same crime (with a much cleaner record than me)  was hauled straight from the court room to do 90 days in jail..
This happened about 15 years ago in Dayton Ohio, not in Alabama or Texas.
I'd like to tell you that I stood up and protested, but I didn't. I was just glad to be going home that day. Does that make me a racist for not standing up and doing 90 days in stir with him? Perhaps,  sure if you say so.
Not one of my black friends have ever said that I did wrong.
It's really easy to scream injustice when there's absolutely no threat to your freedom, but go get charged with a crime and go stand in the court room where your freedom is at stake and you might have to go spend a month locked up with 'the brothers' and worry about getting your ass beat daily and twice on Sunday..  Go scream injustice to the judge who sent you there..

[drunkenshoe]

Protests combined with inflamatory rhetoric and emotionally unstable people are generally retarded and only lead to polarization and violence. Look at all the anarchist/communist/fascists protests of the last years in europe. Look at unkraine. The protests slowly scalated violence into civil war between neighbooring ethnic groups. Really weird how you call out the bullshit of inflamatory rhetoric from youtubers that have not actually ever organized their fans into protests where people get assaulted and their rights violated unlike BLM.

What Western media constantly does to Muslim people, refugees, without any discrimination or MRAs and SJWs do, doesn't get this response from you, marucio.

You are happy with that because you agree with them and support it. You are not happy with Kendrick because it offends you. On the other hand there is no such dynamic between racists and anti-racist or black and white people as the one between SJWs and MRAs which hasn't even existed for a decade yet. I'm not offended by them. I see where are they coming from, but do not approve their game because it is a childish game between two groups only in the internet. And I also even believe in the long term something good can come of that.

This is demagogy. You are defending that angry people stop lashing out about racism and hatred they experience, because it instills hatred, in a white forum.

People on this forum are offended by anything that is NOT white or male. And calling it hateful rhetoric, the political side behind it regressive. Pretty much like Christian Right Wing.