Thoughts on the Existence of the Universe

[widdershins]

God allows these handicaps to prove that all life is sacred. Everyone is capable of having a positive influence on those round about if God is the focus.

I don't think you're imagining handicaps serious enough.  My wife works with the mentally challenged.  I guarantee you a 40 year old man with the intellect of a 6 month old baby, incapable of even understanding speech, isn't capable of "making God the focus".  And to see a man who hasn't changed much mentally since infancy, that doesn't prove to me in any way that life is "sacred".  All that says to me is that there is no such thing as a "perfect" design, and here's living proof, and living only because we made laws in the just last few decades which prevented facilities from letting him starve to death with impunity.  (Note this "person" is fictional, but based on a real condition.  For reasons of legality and compassion I cannot give actual examples I know of.)

[Mr.Obvious]

God allows these handicaps to prove that all life is sacred. Everyone is capable of having a positive influence on those round about if God is the focus.

God could find a way to prove that point without inflicting innocents with such cruel disadvantages. He can do anything, after all. And is omniscient to boot.

Besides...
My grandfather was born with a physical handicap. And multiple of my clients have some disability. My colleagues and I (social workers) all do our best to have a positive influence in their lives, but for hardly any of us God has a part in the equation, as most of us are irreligious and atheist. In fact, without God as the focus, but instead these disadvantaged mortal human beings as the focus in the context of an unfair world without some divine plan and no cosmic justice in the end, spurs our, or at least my, intents if anything. We do what we do because there is no god to count on to do it.

[LittleNipper]

I don't think you're imagining handicaps serious enough.  My wife works with the mentally challenged.  I guarantee you a 40 year old man with the intellect of a 6 month old baby, incapable of even understanding speech, isn't capable of "making God the focus".  And to see a man who hasn't changed much mentally since infancy, that doesn't prove to me in any way that life is "sacred".  All that says to me is that there is no such thing as a "perfect" design, and here's living proof, and living only because we made laws in the just last few decades which prevented facilities from letting him starve to death with impunity.  (Note this "person" is fictional, but based on a real condition.  For reasons of legality and compassion I cannot give actual examples I know of.)

Helen Keller could not see, hear or speak. What doesn't come out in the Patty Duke movie is that her folks were very concerned for Helen's salvation. And Helen did become a Christian. Just because a person is limited, doesn't mean that that individual cannot respond to love. And God's love is the ultimate love.

[LittleNipper]

God could find a way to prove that point without inflicting innocents with such cruel disadvantages. He can do anything, after all. And is omniscient to boot.

Besides...
My grandfather was born with a physical handicap. And multiple of my clients have some disability. My colleagues and I (social workers) all do our best to have a positive influence in their lives, but for hardly any of us God has a part in the equation, as most of us are irreligious and atheist. In fact, without God as the focus, but instead these disadvantaged mortal human beings as the focus in the context of an unfair world without some divine plan and no cosmic justice in the end, spurs our, or at least my, intents if anything. We do what we do because there is no god to count on to do it.

Those with seemingly "cruel" disadvantages in this life will likely enjoy far more advantages in eternity. Those to whom God gives much, He expects much from.

[stromboli]

Those with seemingly "cruel" disadvantages in this life will likely enjoy far more advantages in eternity. Those to whom God gives much, He expects much from.

[drunkenshoe]

They swim in the middle of the river--they don't go near the banks.

LOL

[Mike Cl]

Helen Keller could not see, hear or speak. What doesn't come out in the Patty Duke movie is that her folks were very concerned for Helen's salvation. And Helen did become a Christian. Just because a person is limited, doesn't mean that that individual cannot respond to love. And God's love is the ultimate love.

Of course this makes sense.  This perfect god who is perfect love allows a baby into the world that cannot see, hear or speak.  Yeah, that is the personification of perfect love! 

[Hydra009]

Of course this makes sense.  This perfect god who is perfect love allows a baby into the world that cannot see, hear or speak.  Yeah, that is the personification of perfect love!

God works in mysterious ways and we can't really know the will of God.  Now, like I was saying, God is omnibenevolent, white, endorses our current presidential candidate, and sends tornadoes to indiscriminately punish people for gays doing it up the butt.

[sdelsolray]

LittleNipper's god is a little sh*t.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Those with seemingly "cruel" disadvantages in this life will likely enjoy far more advantages in eternity. Those to whom God gives much, He expects much from.

Prove it.

[LittleNipper]

God could find a way to prove that point without inflicting innocents with such cruel disadvantages. He can do anything, after all. And is omniscient to boot.

Besides...
My grandfather was born with a physical handicap. And multiple of my clients have some disability. My colleagues and I (social workers) all do our best to have a positive influence in their lives, but for hardly any of us God has a part in the equation, as most of us are irreligious and atheist. In fact, without God as the focus, but instead these disadvantaged mortal human beings as the focus in the context of an unfair world without some divine plan and no cosmic justice in the end, spurs our, or at least my, intents if anything. We do what we do because there is no god to count on to do it.

You do what exactly to be a positive influence?

[Fickle]

Psychologically God is not unlike never having to grow up and face your own demons. It is like the mother that is always there to embrace you, like the father with his words of wisdom. It is an artifact of the human condition to make sense of things that never seem to make sense. It brings hope in something else when all hope in others would seems to be lost. It is life eternal beyond the shallow grave which calls our name slowly but surly. It is our hopes and desires personified in whimsical dreams of things that always remain just beyond our reach.

Psychologically God is not unlike a sense of a lack of true purpose, a sense of non-existence which demands internalization of one's self to imaginary external forces. Maturity is when we are no longer dependent on others thoughts, not our parents, not imaginary gods and there in lies the secret of the universe. We are, we were always alone fundamentally as true individuals but never truly alone.

Myself I would prefer to be very much imperfect, finite and human with a purpose beyond the scope of those around me.

[widdershins]

Helen Keller could not see, hear or speak. What doesn't come out in the Patty Duke movie is that her folks were very concerned for Helen's salvation. And Helen did become a Christian. Just because a person is limited, doesn't mean that that individual cannot respond to love. And God's love is the ultimate love.

Helen Keller was an intelligent woman, so her case has NOTHING to do with the severe mental handicaps I was talking about.

You "think" God's love is the ultimate love because it's what you've been told.  Truth be told, however, you have to simply claim it because you can find on real evidence that a being that would light you on fire for not doing as you're told in any way represents "love" in the slightest bit.  Among humans we call that trait "selfish", which is pretty much the opposite of "love".  So you have to explain it away with some nonsense saying like, "We cannot understand the mind of God".  Well you seem to understand it well enough when you're assigning a "loving" personality to him.  If we can't understand his mind then how do you know he is even capable of "love"?  The truth is, you can't, by your own pathetic excuses.

You speak as if you actually have some knowledge about your God, some firsthand experience that you can quantify, some basis in absolute reality.  The truth of the matter is, though, that everything you believe is based solely off someone telling you it's true.  You believe it's true, not because you've seen it, but because someone told you it's true and you decided to believe it.  You may think you've seen God's power, and I'm sure there is no way I can convince you that isn't true, but I do know that isn't true.  I've heard the stories and I understand why people believe them.  But the plain and simple truth is, EVERY SINGLE THING you've ever seen that you attributed to God could just as easily be attributed to doctors, random chance or some other mundane thing.  And if you honestly sat and thought about it you would easily find that you simply ignore anything which doesn't match the pattern you don't want to see, which is a WHOLE LOT MORE than the things you take notice of.  If you were honest with yourself and took a good hard look you would find that you set your beliefs up to be verified no matter what the outcome of any given situation.  You pray for something and if you get it, God answered your prayer!  If you don't, it wasn't God's will.  But I think we both know you'll never look honestly at your beliefs.  If you did that you might lose them, and there is nothing scarier in the world to you.  You have doubts all the time, but you bury them.  I've been there.

[LittleNipper]

Helen Keller was an intelligent woman, so her case has NOTHING to do with the severe mental handicaps I was talking about.

You "think" God's love is the ultimate love because it's what you've been told.  Truth be told, however, you have to simply claim it because you can find on real evidence that a being that would light you on fire for not doing as you're told in any way represents "love" in the slightest bit.  Among humans we call that trait "selfish", which is pretty much the opposite of "love".  So you have to explain it away with some nonsense saying like, "We cannot understand the mind of God".  Well you seem to understand it well enough when you're assigning a "loving" personality to him.  If we can't understand his mind then how do you know he is even capable of "love"?  The truth is, you can't, by your own pathetic excuses.

You speak as if you actually have some knowledge about your God, some firsthand experience that you can quantify, some basis in absolute reality.  The truth of the matter is, though, that everything you believe is based solely off someone telling you it's true.  You believe it's true, not because you've seen it, but because someone told you it's true and you decided to believe it.  You may think you've seen God's power, and I'm sure there is no way I can convince you that isn't true, but I do know that isn't true.  I've heard the stories and I understand why people believe them.  But the plain and simple truth is, EVERY SINGLE THING you've ever seen that you attributed to God could just as easily be attributed to doctors, random chance or some other mundane thing.  And if you honestly sat and thought about it you would easily find that you simply ignore anything which doesn't match the pattern you don't want to see, which is a WHOLE LOT MORE than the things you take notice of.  If you were honest with yourself and took a good hard look you would find that you set your beliefs up to be verified no matter what the outcome of any given situation.  You pray for something and if you get it, God answered your prayer!  If you don't, it wasn't God's will.  But I think we both know you'll never look honestly at your beliefs.  If you did that you might lose them, and there is nothing scarier in the world to you.  You have doubts all the time, but you bury them.  I've been there.

No one knew Helen Keller was intelligent because they couldn't communicate with her. And frankly, to hear how some people are speaking here, how intelligent could Helen have been since she became a Christian?  I don't believe in random chance. Everything happens for a reason. And if you would only listen to yourself, here you are Mister Pan calling the kettle black.

God doesn't punish anyone for doubting. God punishes when people simply disregard the obvious. The Israelites were punished when they witnessed God at work and then devoted themselves to the worship of knickknacks they fabricated. This is what God hates. God hate liars. People who witness the improbable, find the unexpected, are shown the unimaginable, and then they try to hide that reality to promote their own devised schemes and agenda.

[Baruch]

The Exodus is not historical.  It is a metaphorical political tract from circa 700 BCE, invented to deal with the mishmash of people coming down from Israel fleeing the Assyrians, and interacting with the Judeans, who were competitors and sometimes enemies.  Blame King Hezekiah.