If you support shillary...

[Jannabear]

I'm responding to your claim: "from a homophobic republican to a LGBT rights" She was a Republican in 1968. It's more than 40 years ago.

Do you want a video of her bashing gay marriage from 2010, if you want to deny fucking reality.

See the above reply - it's more than 40 years over which she has changed her positions. So get your facts straightened out.
You're insane.
There's a third possiblity on which you are either totally blind or willfully ignoring it: she actually evolved.
Or you didn't even watch the video.




Get your facts straightened out, her economic policies are totally different than Sanders, just as one example.
I know, that's why I don't like her.



Ethics is a work in progress, unless you believe in God who decreed for all time what's right or wrong. So you should know that applying your ethics on someone else is totally unacceptable.  If I would apply my code of ethics on you, you'd be the first to scream murder, so don't apply yours on Hillary. That smacks of hypocrisy.
L0l.
So fuck actually debating ethics and saying that certain actions are horrible, fuck accountability.




First of all, being a socialist is NOT a prerequisite to be part of the Democratic party. Second of all, socialism is a failed ideology. So again get your facts straightened out.
"Socialism is a failed ideology" shows me that you don't even understand what socialism is, there is no one "socialism", the question is how socialist are you, and obama and hilary aren't very socialist whatsoever, and we need socialism in america horribly.


[/size]


It's not a crime, it's not illegal, and that money is poured into pac committees over which she has no control.
"She has no control"
I nearly wanted to throw my pc when I read this.


That's totally ridiculous - 1) she can make more money on the speaking tour 2) She can't be Obama, she's white AND a woman.
I was referring to her political viewpoints you fucking moron.





That's your opinion which I don't share. Her CV is so extensive that compared to any other contenders, it makes them all look like amateur.
Yeah, she has a history of being a shill, a shady dumbass, and a homophobic moron, bernie has a history of standing on principle, and not polling numbers.

[Jannabear]

Changing opinions? 40 years ago I was a homophobic Republican doomsday prepper Mormon. Now I am a liberal progressive atheist Democrat whose best friend is gay. People evolve. And I am a lot firmer in my stance now than I was then.
She was against gay marriage in 2010.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maEvJQBJH4s

But that to me is not the issue. Because the SCOTUS decision per gay marriage more or less puts Democrats on the side of liberalism whether they choose it or not. To do so would alienate the Democratic base. You can trump Bernie's policies all you want, but when he declares himself a socialist and everyone identifies him as an atheist, whether he is or not, is at this point in time is not a winner politically.
Most people I've seen don't give a solitary fuck that he's an atheist, and he never outright said it, so he has the benefit of the doubt.

Hillary is default the best choice overall because she falls on the correct side politically and whether we like it or not, a relationship with big money is better than not having one. And I don't think Sanders is up to speed foreign policy wise, which is critical. You can say Hillary was not the best Sec. of state, but she has experience and she is smart, very smart. She spent 8 years in the White House watching the business, has been a senator and Sec.of state. That is better overall than any of her opponents and she has all her marbles in the same bucket, whether we like her or not.
Bernie's support has been rising at an insane rate, and if he does well in iowa and new hampshire then he's going to destroy hillary.
"Not up to speed on foreign policy" even though he voted against the iraq war and hillary voted for it...
She's inconsistent as fuck.
I also believe she was appointed Sec.of state to set her up for the presidency. And I think that might have been a deal between her and Obama. There was a lot of acrimony when Obama got elected, but he never failed to see she had political clout, and Sec. of state is by far the best classroom for international politics.
Yeah, someone who voted to go into iraq is good on foreign policy.
All in all she is the best choice. It isn't about gay/trans rights it is about the big picture.
Yeah, because that's the only issue with her.

[josephpalazzo]

Thanks for the insults. Consider yourself on my ignore list.

[Nonsensei]

I can't support Hillary. If she wins the nomination I won't be voting. Some people have suggested that her views have evolved, I think thats a very naive way of looking at it. From my point of view she isn't evolving, shes just saying and doing whatever it takes to get into office. Once there, I would be a fool to believe she would do anything less than revert to her true set of political positions. Positions, I might add, which have been expertly concealed from us along with her true personality.

I have no fucking idea who Hillary Clinton really is, and the more her slick campaign managers try to explain it to me the more opaque she becomes. Shes so compressed, so hunkered down behind the candidate barricade that she doesn't even seem like she is a human being anymore. Everything that comes out of her mouth is so obviously calculated and planned that I am unable to trust it at all.

If you support Hillary, I don't think you're an idiot or ignorant but I strongly urge you to stop and consider how confident you are that she will be the president she says she will be. If you cant actually come up with a satisfactory answer, not necessarily for me but for yourself, you should not be voting for her.

[Hydra009]

Changing opinions? 40 years ago I was a homophobic Republican doomsday prepper Mormon. Now I am a liberal progressive atheist Democrat whose best friend is gay. People evolve. And I am a lot firmer in my stance now than I was then.

Yep.  I've changed, too.  A lot of us have.  Hell, Obama changed on the whole gay marriage issue.  If she were under fire simply for changing her mind, that'd be screwed up.  But she's not.

She's under fire for engaging in historical revisionism on DOMA.  That sort of thing is a legitimate grievance to have against a candidate and although personal likability does take a back seat to platform in my book, it really hurts electability.

[PickelledEggs]

I can't support Hillary. If she wins the nomination I won't be voting. Some people have suggested that her views have evolved, I think thats a very naive way of looking at it. From my point of view she isn't evolving, shes just saying and doing whatever it takes to get into office. Once there, I would be a fool to believe she would do anything less than revert to her true set of political positions. Positions, I might add, which have been expertly concealed from us along with her true personality.

I have no fucking idea who Hillary Clinton really is, and the more her slick campaign managers try to explain it to me the more opaque she becomes. Shes so compressed, so hunkered down behind the candidate barricade that she doesn't even seem like she is a human being anymore. Everything that comes out of her mouth is so obviously calculated and planned that I am unable to trust it at all.

If you support Hillary, I don't think you're an idiot or ignorant but I strongly urge you to stop and consider how confident you are that she will be the president she says she will be. If you cant actually come up with a satisfactory answer, not necessarily for me but for yourself, you should not be voting for her.

Oh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.

So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of  republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.

Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.

[PickelledEggs]

When there is a choice of being kicked in the balls or getting smacked in the face, I would prefer to get smacked in the face.

[josephpalazzo]

...

She's under fire for engaging in historical revisionism on DOMA.  That sort of thing is a legitimate grievance to have against a candidate and although personal likability does take a back seat to platform in my book, it really hurts electability.

But in that same article, it says, "...it (DOMA) got 118 Democratic votes in the House and 32 Democratic votes in the Senate.

It was a different time back then, and opinions and political positions on gay and lesbian issues have changed a lot since. It's hard (but not impossible) to find a Democrat who isn't on board same-sex marriage recognition these days and looking to expand civil rights laws to protect gays against workplace and public accommodations discrimination."


For some, it's a fault if you change position, then you would most likely fail in science, as new evidence compels a scientist to change position.

[Nonsensei]

Oh god. Please at least vote for Hillary so Trump doesn't get elected. I don't support Hillary, but I sure as hell would rather her than ANY of the republican candidates.

So please. I beg of you. If it comes down to Hillary vs whatever republican is left instead of Bernie, PLEASE vote Hillary so we're not left with one of those guys. When it's a choice between the lesser of 2 evils and you have Hillary, who is evil and the entire cast of  republicans (who are 1000000x more evil) Hillary needs to be picked.

Believe me, I don't want Hillary to be our president, but holy shit. I would rather her than those other nut-cases.

I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.

On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.

[PickelledEggs]

I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.

On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.

So would you rather have Hillary? or one of the Republican candidates?

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your choice of what is basically "Fuck it. I give up. I don't get a choice of Ice Cream and poison... it's just a choice between two poisons... so someone pick my poison for me."

[Hydra009]

Among Democratic primary voters.

Democratic primary voters are an important demographic for a democratic primary.  :P

Sanders does better with Independents, too.

[josephpalazzo]

I get where you're coming from here, but try to see it from my point of view. To me, Hillary is not a Democrat. She is not a Republican or an independent either. She is just a humongous fucking question mark. She couldn't be more concealed if she were wearing a burqa. If she got into office and literally turned out to be the leader of a vanguard of lizard man invaders I would be just as surprised as if she turned out to be a moderate democrat. I have no idea what she will do with the presidency.

On the other hand I cant turn on a fucking TV in this country without learning all about what Donald Trump will do with the presidency. Its reprehensible, but at least his fucking cards are on the table, face up. I won't vote for him, but I won't vote for her either.

Wow, really...

"After law school, Hillary could have gone to work for a prestigious law firm, but took a job at the Children’s Defense Fund. She worked with teenagers incarcerated in adult prisons in South Carolina and families with disabled children in Massachusetts. It sparked a lifelong passion for helping children live up to their potential."

"Standing in front of a U.N. conference and declaring that “women’s rights are human rights” was more controversial than it sounds today. Many within the U.S. government didn’t want Hillary to go to Beijing. Others wanted her to pick a less polarizing topic (you say polarizing, we say half the population). But Hillary was determined to speak out about human rights abuses, and her message became a rallying cry for a generation."

"Hillary Clinton was the principal author of the sanction on Iran that brought them to the table.

"Her accomplishments extend to health care, as well. As First Lady, she helped create and guide through Congress Children’s Health Insurance Program, a key program that brought health care coverage to millions of children. As a Senator, she worked across the aisle to provide full military health benefits to reservists and National Guard members."

"Hillary Clinton was instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11. She fought tooth and nail to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed and was pivotal in the passage of legislation that helped those first responders who got sick get the care and treatment they deserved."

I could go on and on on her accomplishments. A single google search would help you to enlighten yourself and avoid this embarrassing post...

[PickelledEggs]

Lets make an extreme hypothetical. You're being mugged in the street and the mugger gives you a choice between getting shot in the kneecap, crippling you.... possibly for the rest of your life, or shot in the thigh, which is just going to damage some tissue and will heal much better and fully. Which would you choose?

Any Republican, if they get elected would be like shooting this country in the kneecap. I don't know if we would even recover... and if we do, half of us will die of old age by that time.

[Hydra009]

But in that same article, it says, "...it (DOMA) got 118 Democratic votes in the House and 32 Democratic votes in the Senate.

It was a different time back then, and opinions and political positions on gay and lesbian issues have changed a lot since.

Once again, I've noticed that your rebuttals of my arguments don't actually rebut anything I'm actually saying.  The argument wasn't that she simply changed her mind, but she lied about her past stance.

[PickelledEggs]

The argument wasn't that she simply changed her mind, but she lied about her past stance.

This is one of the reasons I hope Bernie just beats her and is left to run against the Republicans. She's a liar.