Headteacher mocked for claiming evolution is not a fact

Started by josephpalazzo, February 03, 2016, 02:53:45 PM

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Nonsensei

Quote from: Daniel2021 on February 23, 2016, 01:29:00 PM
So the "facts"/evidence of evolution = a gazillion fossils.  Then....

The "theory" of evolution explains those gazillion fossils.  Are you saying the "theory" of evolution explains Permineralization - Petrification?  Isn't that the process of fossilization?

What is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....?

thanks

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+scientific+theory+of+evolution
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

aitm

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Daniel2021

Quote from: Hydra009 on February 23, 2016, 02:47:13 PM
I really don't think so and I'm having a hard time understanding where you got the impression that evolution explains the process of fossilization, because no one claimed or even implied that at all.

Well because 'josephpalazzo' said.... "there are the "facts" of evolution - a gazillion of fossils as evidence - and there is the "theory" of evolution that explains those facts."

 
QuoteBut to answer your question, one of the facts that the theory of evolution attempts to explain is that we have fossils of extinct species that bear a striking resemblance to living species.

Again, what is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution...?

"Resemblances", "Similarities", "Comparisons" ect... isn't Science.  Science is in the business of validating/confirming then explaining "Cause and Effect" relationships between Independent and Dependent Variables so as to make "Predictions"....it's called Hypothesis TESTING...The Scientific Method.

QuoteEvolution provides a model that matches these findings and makes predictions about what sorts of species we'll find in the fossil record.

What's your "Independent Variable" here with fossils?  The Angle of the Shovel, Eyelids, Imagination ?

Scientific Predictions are the Consequent of the Antecedent.... "Independent Variable".

Predictions without viable Independent Variables are in the: Jeanne Dixon, Edgar Cayce, Nostradamus, Carnival Tent genre.


QuoteFor example, we won't find rabbit skeletons in precambrian strata.  To date, it's held up pretty well.

This is an implied Formal Logical Fallacy (Denying The Antecedent)...

If P, then Q.
Not P.
Therefore, not Q.

If they are buried together (P) then they both existed together (Q)
They're not buried together (Not P).
Therefore, they didn't exist together. (Therefore, not Q).


QuoteDescent with modification.  That site covers the basics pretty well.

I didn't request a "link", I simply asked for the "Scientific Theory" of evolution...?

   

Nonsensei

Are you asking him to hand type an explanation of the scientific theory of evolution instead of giving you a link to go read about it yourself?
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Hydra009

Quote from: Nonsensei on February 23, 2016, 03:35:09 PM
Are you asking him to hand type an explanation of the scientific theory of evolution instead of giving you a link to go read about it yourself?
Yeah wtf.  Either the most obtuse person I've ever met or a creationist insincerely asking for evidence like Wendy Wright.  Either way, the stupid burns!

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Daniel2021 on February 23, 2016, 01:29:00 PM
So the "facts"/evidence of evolution = a gazillion fossils.  Then....

The "theory" of evolution explains those gazillion fossils.  Are you saying the "theory" of evolution explains Permineralization - Petrification?  Isn't that the process of fossilization?

What is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....?

thanks

There are the facts of gravity: take a 10kg, 1kg, 100g iron balls. Release them all under free fall, and they all accelerate at 9.8m/s2. Then there's the theory of gravity that explains the facts, which was initially proposed by Newton F=GM1M2/r2, then modified by Einstein Gij = (8Ï€G/c4)Tij.

Similarly, there are the facts of evolution: if you place side by side the fossils unearthed, there is a progression - in the limbs, the eyes, in the ears, in just about every anatomical features from one species to another. The theory of evolution explains that with natural selection, gene drift, gene flow, common descent, adaption. In case you don't know: NO, HUMANS DON'T COME FROM MONKEYS. 

SGOS

I've seen better explanations of why evolution is both fact and theory.  But this googled up right away, and it's probably sufficient (for now).  You can google more on your own if you want.    But the theory of evolution has been checked, verified, and cross referenced so intensely across the broad spectrum of sciences, that the fact it happens is indisputable.

I used to say evolution was theory and  not actual fact, but after having it explained to be me in a couple of debates with actual biologists, and after reading their links, I no longer make that claim.  The claim might hold true if you are willing to consider odd explanations as worthwhile considerations, like "Satan put the fossils in rocks to confuse us. " If you insist that we must entertain every absurd explanation as possibly factual, you might convince yourself that evolution is not a fact.

I think Darwin's actual theory was pretty simple, along the lines of "small changes in individuals over long time periods accumulate until new species separate from other species."  Back then it was dicey enough for debate, but that was before so many other discoveries kept verifying the basically simple explanation that is the theory.  Today, there are an abundance of spin off theories that explain spin off discoveries, but theory of evolution is still essentially as Darwin put forth in his so simple almost naïve elegance.

Fact in science is a scientifically indisputable statement.  Of course Ken Hamm disputes it, but his claims cannot be distinguished from lies, falsehoods and the mad ravings of seers.  And even at that, his "factual" claims are almost all just one "claim", "Goddidit."  Overall, he doesn't claim many facts at all.  By far, most of his energy is devoted to disputing science.  Oddly, science expends no energy disputing the Bible, and produces much without bothering to do so, something that probably pisses off Ken Hamm to no end.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/lenski.html

QuoteScientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change.


Mike Cl

Quote from: Daniel2021 on February 23, 2016, 01:29:00 PM
So the "facts"/evidence of evolution = a gazillion fossils.  Then....

The "theory" of evolution explains those gazillion fossils.  Are you saying the "theory" of evolution explains Permineralization - Petrification?  Isn't that the process of fossilization?

What is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....?

thanks
Oh good--another brain dead theist who only believes and can't or won't reason.  WTF, Daniel, who don't you simply return to your wonderful book of Daniel, read a masturbate to that.  And leave us alone.  Or, why not take the time and effort to introduce yourself and indicate whether you are a drive-by stupido or somebody who is going to stay around for awhile.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

drunkenshoe

I think he wants some 'formula' called "Scientific Theory of Evolution". Something that resembles f= m. a? 
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Unbeliever

Quote from: Hydra009 on February 03, 2016, 10:45:11 PM
It's interesting how they always confuse evolution with atheism.  In effect, they're trying to prove their (questionable) religious beliefs true by attacking pretty solid science.  It's almost comical.  Strike that.  It's very comical.
Here's what St Augustine of Hippo said about science and Christianity:
QuoteOften a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.
God Not Found
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Daniel2021

Quote from: josephpalazzo on February 23, 2016, 04:10:04 PM
There are the facts of gravity: take a 10kg, 1kg, 100g iron balls. Release them all under free fall, and they all accelerate at 9.8m/s2. Then there's the theory of gravity that explains the facts, which was initially proposed by Newton F=GM1M2/r2, then modified by Einstein Gij = (8Ï€G/c4)Tij.

What does gravity have to do with the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....?

QuoteSimilarly, there are the facts of evolution: if you place side by side the fossils unearthed, there is a progression - in the limbs, the eyes, in the ears, in just about every anatomical features from one species to another.

Begging The Question (Fallacy): "evolution".  Again, what is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution...?

Again: "Similarities", "Resemblances", "Correlations"...aren't Science.


QuoteThe theory of evolution explains that with natural selection, gene drift, gene flow, common descent, adaption.

Begging The Question (Fallacy) again.  SEE above: What is the "Scientific Theory" of evolution...?

Sorry for repeating this.  My intent is not to be obtuse but nobody has posted a response to what should be a very simple query.
If I wanted to provide evidence for duccolslopoelgerts it follows logically that I need to "define" what duccolslopoelgerts are, first.

QuoteIn case you don't know: NO, HUMANS DON'T COME FROM MONKEYS.

Yes thanks, I know that.

Daniel2021

Quote from: Hydra009 on February 23, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Yeah wtf.  Either the most obtuse person I've ever met or a creationist insincerely asking for evidence like Wendy Wright.  Either way, the stupid burns!

So since you can't post the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....I'm obtuse, and stupid ??  I think there's some holes in your thesis.

regards

Daniel2021

Quote from: SGOS on February 23, 2016, 04:16:28 PM
But the theory of evolution has been checked, verified, and cross referenced so intensely across the broad spectrum of sciences, that the fact it happens is indisputable.

What happens...?

Well when somebody posts the "Scientific Theory" of evolution then we'll evaluate whether the evidence fits.

I really am struggling to see how this is unreasonable request.

regards

PopeyesPappy

Quote from: Daniel2021 on February 23, 2016, 05:32:30 PM
So since you can't post the "Scientific Theory" of evolution....I'm obtuse, and stupid ??  I think there's some holes in your thesis.

regards

As far as obtuse and stupid go I'm willing to withhold judgement until more evidence comes in. In the meantime my money is on just another fucking asshole.

As far as what the theory of evolution is no one on this forum could possibly explain it all in a post. That would literally take volumes of books. Evolution in a nutshell has already been explained in this thread. It is decent with modification. Evolution is also an observed fact. It has been observed and documented many many times. And please before you get into the whole micro/macro thing be prepared to explain the mechanism that stops small changes from accumulating into larger ones.

Finally, what are these holes you speak of?
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