Erdogan wants more powerful presidency, cites Hitler.

[Valigarmander]

We all have role models.

ISTANBUL â€" Turkey issued a statement on Friday saying that comments by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan â€" in which he cited Hitler in response to a question about whether a strong presidency was possible in Turkey â€" had been misinterpreted.

Mr. Erdogan, who is pushing to imbue the largely ceremonial presidency with sweeping executive powers, told reporters late Thursday that “there are already examples in the world.”

“You can see it when you look at Hitler’s Germany,” he said.

Mr. Erdogan did not elaborate, but his comparison to Hitler drew immediate criticism because of what many view as his increasing authoritarianism. His comment also raised the issue of how the leader of one of the world’s most influential countries, an American ally and member of NATO, would mention Hitler in the context of his own tenure.

On Friday, the office of the presidency said that “Erdogan’s ‘Hitler’s Germany metaphor’ has been distorted by media outlets and has been used in the opposite sense.”

It said Mr. Erdogan had used the example to demonstrate that an executive presidency does not depend on a federal system of government.

“If the system is abused, it may lead to bad management resulting in disasters as in Hitler’s Germany,” the statement said. “The important thing is to pursue fair management that serves the nation.”

Mr. Erdogan became Turkey’s first popularly elected president in August 2014, having dominated Turkish politics for more than a decade as prime minister. Since assuming the new post, he has aggressively campaigned to rewrite the Turkish Constitution and establish an executive system of government.

His consolidation of power has had a potent effect on Turkish society. Critics say Mr. Erdogan’s divisive rhetoric, in which he has denigrated opponents as terrorists or traitors, has helped polarize the country.

A government crackdown on dissent â€" including a growing campaign of intimidation against the opposition news media, with a mob of his supporters attacking newspaper offices ahead of the November election â€" has raised concerns domestically and abroad about Turkey’s commitment to democracy.

To change the Constitution, Mr. Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party, which regained its parliamentary majority in November, needs support from opposition parties, who fear that such a system would consolidate too much power in Mr. Erdogan’s hands.

Last week, Turkey’s main opposition party said it would back some changes to an outdated Constitution, which was drawn up by the military after a 1980 coup, but it does not support an all-powerful presidential system envisioned by Mr. Erdogan.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told the leader of Turkey’s main opposition party, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, that a presidential system would not lead to a dictatorship.

“What is right for Turkey is to adopt the presidential system in line with the democratic spirit,” he said in a television interview this week. “This system will not evolve into dictatorship, but if we do not have this spirit, even the parliamentary system can turn into this dictatorship.”

In Turkey, reaction to his remarks was strong on social media.

“Let’s do a close comparison between Hitler and Erdogan,” one person wrote on Twitter. “The only difference is that Hitler was a bit shorter.”

People also shared a Photoshopped picture of Hitler with Mr. Erdogan’s face superimposed on it.

[stromboli]

Another fun guy from Turkey, the country that can't decide if its middle east or eastern Europe. (apologies to Shoe)

[Baruch]

Turkey is a traditional ally of Germany, not of the US.  Turkey is only in Nato because Germany is in Nato.  The initial influx of guest workers in Germany come from Turkey (prior to fall of the Berlin Wall).  Secular Arabs were allies of the Nazis, and later the Soviet Union.  They are not natural allies of the US, which is one of the Five Eyes, led by GB, who was a colonial power in the ME ... religious Arabs are allies of GB, and thus also of the US.

[pr126]

Mein Kampf sales soar in Turkey

Mein Kampf, the book Hitler wrote in prison before he rose to power in 1933, has become a bestseller in Turkey, provoking consternation.

The dreams of creating a master race are being snapped up by young Turks. Its publishers believe that more than 100,000 copies have been sold in the past two months.

Its sudden appeal has alarmed Turkey's Jewish community and is causing concern in the EU. A German diplomat said its success "might not give the right signals" to Europeans in advance of Turkey's opening accession talks in October.

"Obviously we're very concerned," Ivo Molinas, one of Turkey's 25,000 Jews, said in Istanbul. "This is a democratic country and the book can't be banned, but it would be good if the Turkish government openly said they don't like it being sold. Unfortunately, there has been no such approach."

[Baruch]

Mein Kampf sales soar in Turkey

Gentiles are all the same? ... and Turks are Gentiles ;-(  They have repeatedly engaged in ethnic cleansing.

[pr126]

I wonder what Frau Merkel thinks about this?

[drunkenshoe]

Among all the terrible things this man has said in the last decade, just a Hitler mention related to presidency system in a country that doesn't have any collective memory or no direct historical relations to WWII alarmed Western media? And the concern is about Jewish Turks? He is talking about passing to the presidential system. Its consequences is far worse than a supposed hyped up bullshit threat to one minority. (There are nearly 20 000 Jews in Turkiye, not 25 000.)

Also didn't we establish that 7 out of 10 Turks haven't read a book in their lives just a few days ago in another thread? But in just a span of 2 months, 100 000 copies of a heavy reading; a 750 pages of an autobiographical manifesto of a dictator from an alien culture flew off the shelves, eh? What is this? Fifty Shades of Grey? And all these individuals prepare for conspiring against 20 000 Jews. And they of course need Hitler's autobiography to do that.

The best sellers in Tukiye 2014. First two is about religion. There is also fiction. 



This is the Forbes list on the profits of the top 10 books sold in 2014.




By the way, Germany have just decided to print Mein Kampf after 70 years and Neo-Nazism is at its peak since the shorty himself. So you think they are going back to Hitler period? Or it just counts when it comes to the muslim countries? If this book was prohibited in Turkiye, the news would be about on how bad the censorship in the country I guess.

Mein Kampf sales in USA:

Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' becomes e-book blockbuster

https://www.rt.com/usa/hitler-mein-kampf-ebook-433/

Adolf Hitler’s magnum opus Mein Kampf is experiencing a surge in sales, and some say that the Nazi leader’s manifesto is becoming popular nearly a century after being published thanks to the anonymous readers who purchase e-book editions.

Digital versions of Mein Kampf appeared twice last week on the list of the 20 most popular political books for sale on iTunes, and one edition currently has the top place on Amazon’s roster of best-selling titles in the category of propaganda and political psychology.


An article on the unexpected resurgence penned this week by journalist Chris Faraone has exploded on the web, and to ABC News he said that he thinks the relative anonymity maintained by purchasing e-books of controversial classics is what’s driving up sales.

“These are things that people would be embarrassed to read otherwise," Faraone, explained to ABC. "Books that people would probably be a bit more embarrassed to read or display or buy in public, they are more than willing to buy on their Kindle, or iPads."

Indeed, paper printed editions of Mein Kampf haven’t appeared on the New York Times’ list of best-selling non-fiction works since the first English edition was released in the United States back in 1939.

According to Faraone, however, 2013 was “a banner digital year” for the book.

“On Amazon, there are more than 100 versions of Mein Kampf for sale in every conceivable print and audio format, from antique hardbacks to brand-new paperbacks. Of those 100 iterations, just six are e-books â€" yet all six of them rank among the 10 best-selling versions overall. And those are just the ones people are paying for,” he explained in a blog post published this week on the website Vocativ.com.

Faraone wrote that sales of Mein Kampf started to surge last year when a 99 cent version for the Kindle e-reader was released by a California-based publisher who admitted that, even with great sales, there have been forced to wrestle with “a moral dilemma in promotion.”

“I have not heavily promoted the book and decided, for the most part, to let it spread among those who have a true historical and academic interest naturally,” Elite Minds President Michael Ford told Faraone.

To the surprise of many, though, Mein Kamp has not needed a lot of extra promotion in order to move copies. All it needed, he suggests, was being able to be brought into the homes and hands of readers without risking embarrassment or ridicule at the checkout station of a brick and mortar bookstore.

“People might not have wanted to buy Mein Kampfat Borders or have it delivered to their home or displayed on their living room bookshelf, let alone get spotted reading it on a subway,” Faraone wrote, “but judging by hundreds of customer comments online, readers like that digital copies can be quietly perused then dropped into a folder or deleted.”

"With digital readers, no one faces the stigma of having a copy of Mein Kampf on their bookshelf or risks it being seen on a table and having visitors make false assumptions about their reasons for owning it. They can read it in the subway without fear of being mistaken for a racist just because they want to learn about history," Ford of Elite Minds added to ABC’s report.

Not everyone is convinced that the Hitler autobiography will be just that easily forgotten, though. "While the academic study of Mein Kampf is certainly legitimate, the spike in e-book sales likely comes from neo-Nazis and skinheads idolizing the greatest monster in history," World Jewish Congress CEO Robert Singer told ABC in an emailed statement this week.

"We think that responsible companies shouldn't profiteer from the sales of hate books, or at least should donate the profits to help the victims of anti-Semitism, racism and other like bigotries," Singer said.

[drunkenshoe]

I wonder what Frau Merkel thinks about this?

Germany is publishing Mein Kampf in early 2016.

[josephpalazzo]

If Ergogan wants more power as president, all he needs is to read this thread: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=9040.msg1106707#msg1106707

[drunkenshoe]

If Ergogan wants more power as president, all he needs is to read this thread: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=9040.msg1106707#msg1106707

You nailed it on the head. It seems that he wants to build an Islamic Empire applied by American presidency system. Feeding-supporting conflict and profiting/benefitting on it. (Nothing like Ottoman that's just commercial for his voters)

Can he act independently without the permission of the big bosses like USA and Israel? He doesn't need to. They are playing the same game and need Turkey to play ball to go on. Turkey has always been the 'margrave', it will exploit it to no end as every other states do whatever in their power for themselves.

[Shiranu]

Also didn't we establish that 7 out of 10 Turks haven't read a book in their lives just a few days ago in an another thread? But in just a span of 2 months, 100 000 copies of a heavy reading; a 750 pages of an autobiographical manifesto of a dictator from an alien culture flew off the shelves, eh?

I couldn't find the smilie I wanted... ah well, either way... that pesky consistency strikes again.

[Cocoa Beware]

Unfortunately, a lot of people in the West don't realize Mein Kampf  ("My Jihad" is the adapted title to my knowledge) is a fairly popular piece of literature in a number of Muslim majority countries, and even amongst European Muslims.

The only book I know of that demonizes Jews with such vigor is the Koran.

Over here we might assume that Erdogan is just being crazy, but I'm not convinced of that at all.

[drunkenshoe]

Unfortunately, a lot of people in the West don't realize Mein Kampf  ("My Jihad" is the adapted title to my knowledge) is a fairly popular piece of literature in a number of Muslim majority countries, and even amongst European Muslims.

No, the title is 'My Fight' in Turkish. Not 'My Jihad'. Also 'Mein Kampf' means 'My Struggle'. Jihad means 'Holy War'.

I can't imagine who would try to sell an openly European ideology as 'jihad' -which takes all its power from not being a Western ideology- to muslims or what lies behind it if they do, or who believes that they do, but I want a link if it is possible. Becuase either they do not know what jihad is or the muslims they are selling it to don't. And I don't get how the muslims who doesn't know what the jihad is dangerous or a threat -other than to themselves- but in any way it sounds interesting and funny. (Another example of underestimation of Islamic culture and the violence it produces.)

European Muslims are always more ignorant, radicalised and a more traditional group than muslims in muslim countries. For example, the difference between most muslim Turks in Europe and general religious Turks in Turkey can be observed instantly. European muslims are a minority where they live and they hold on to their religious culture and nationality far more tight, as their numbers are little, they succeed easier. There is solidarity about everything and it is very easy to provide compared to a mjority of tens of millions. in It's also a defense mechanism in a society wher ethey are at the bottom of the food chain.

On the other hand, in their homelands, there is a variety of people living with different cultures. There are many other domestic conflicts, economical, social problems; wars, upraisings...etc. Contrary to the common Western belief, they are not spending their whole time conspiring against Western culture and its people. They have lives, families and issues of their own and they do not care about a man who is resposnsible from a destruction that took place 70 years ago.

The only book I know of that demonizes Jews with such vigor is the Koran.

Then you have no idea on hundreds of years of Western, specifically European literature. (Actually goes far back) Where do you live again? Just the standard curriculum of a high school contains the highlights of how Jews have been charaterised and presented. We do not have to go to the now forgotten pieces. I have studied them in high school.

A very well known one. Have you ever heard a man called William Shakespeare? Or a play called The Merchant of Venice?

Shylock is the Jew; the villian of the story, the moneylender who loses a violent and evil game he set up to take revenge and converted to Christianity in the end after losing. The character is also 'blamed' of acting the way he does, because of his 'victim complex'. Shylock is not a Jewish name, it is a made up one from some biblical names of supposed ancestors of Jews, so he actually characterises and symbolises the defeat of ALL Jews and their conversion to Christianity.

Let me remind that Jews have been prevented by laws to hold land or other traditional jobs for hundreds of years in Europe and a result they survived through other skills that they were forced to -besides their unprecedented will and hard work-  AND when history turned out to produce a culture that started ONLY TO RELY ON 'money and banking' they were accused of 'inventing the evil and mastering it'.

Basically, in modern terms, Jews were hated for being good at anything that came to be the basic ground of the modern world and hold onto each other very strongly as a tribe. (Jews are still the highly stigmatised group in Europe after muslims. Israel doesn't help the situation, nor cares. The research have been posted some time ago, no idea in which thread.)

This is the basic logic of the short man with the funny moustache. His hatred against Jews starts with seeing the tenacity, the survival strength of a culture that was forecd out of anything for a long time, but managed to become very successful at putting their hands into anything curicial in the society that has a future. He saw them holding the biggest potential of "Controling the world". (Today still this is a very common opinion on Jews in the USA and Europe among people) Adolf thought he'd beat them to it via a short cut by naked agression as many like him thought before for many people, not just Jews. He became an icon and the poster monster of genocide of the modern world and allthough there have been dictators that would make Hitler a kid playing in a kindergarten who has never been even accused of their crimes, he'll always be the epitome of the 'evil'. Because the Western culture built a history and coded a culture on it.

Over here we might assume that Erdogan is just being crazy, but I'm not convinced of that at all.

Erdogan is not being crazy. He means he wants an iron clad power and doesn't want to compromise. His political ideology is that West acts the same; he always makes the same propaganda; West doesn't see us as humans and we need to take things in our hands. This is his logic. It's not different than Western countries. He is just 'unsuccessful' in sounding like a politician in western scale of terms, lacks the Roman rhetoric mastered by the West, which makes him more valuable to his voters. This is very important.

The society he is addressing in that speech has no collective memory or culture of WWII. Most of them have no sense of history of a world 'saved' by USA in WWII. His voters do not need to feel extra belligerent against Jews more than what in general Jews and Christians feel for them; two groups of people they neither care, nor know about, esp. a war between two remote cultures 70 years ago. They know nothing about. Like Christians or Jews and Israelis do not know, nor care one thing about muslims and their world.

Surprise! Not giving a shit about foriegn culture(s), their past, their wars and struggles is NOT a Western trait. Caaan ya biiiliv it, layyydiiiz and centelmmmın?! 

This is as simple as this. It doesn't suddenly become important because of the name Hitler. Hitler is very important for American and European culture; the WWII is America's ticket to European politics and trade. If US didn't get into it, world would find its 'balance' sooner or later and Americans wouldn't have the history and strong hyped up collective memory of WWII AND feel exactly like Turks voting for Erdogan. Remote. Once upon a time, a monster lived at somewhere in the world...many people died...because of him...etc.

Having said all that, of ourse there is a large group of people -everywhere- who knows, cares and shares the horrifying WWII culture and reacts to this. However, it never gets reported, will never get reported. Because you guys need to chew the same bullshit over and over; know your place, and considering soiceties have a fish memory, always need to be reminded how everybody is ready to get you and conspiring against you 24/7. I mean they started to read books for you ffs.

[Sylar]

No, the title is 'My Fight' in Turkish. Not 'My Jihad'. Also 'Mein Kampf' means 'My Struggle'. Jihad means 'Holy War'.

That is not true; jihad means "struggling" or "striving" in a pure linguistic sense. The Arabic term for war is harb. Holy war would be harb muqaddas.

[drunkenshoe]

That is not true; jihad means "struggling" or "striving" in a pure linguistic sense. The Arabic term for war is harb. Holy war would be harb muqaddas.

Oh I am sure it has many translations through out the Islam world. First of all, I am talking about Turkish language and culture and then 'Mein Kampf' being translated as 'My Jihad' to sell to muslim through out the world.

[Jihad is a word used as 'holy war for Islam'. And the word 'harb' (harp) is also just 'war' in old ottoman turkish. It's used for any war. World war, civil war. Mukaddes is an old female name and not a word used in daily language, niether the word harb. Kutsal is used for 'holy'. Jihad is Cihat and it also a male name. Struggle is 'mücadele' in Turkish. (There are some others like 'çabalama' 'cebelleşme'..etc.). The usual word for war is 'savaş'. There are many words in arabic means holy. Islam has different cultures. ]

So when someone uses the word 'cihat', nobody understands ant 'struggle' or 'striving' but just a 'holy war', it is a special religious term, doesn't mean what it means in arabic. When someone uses the word 'Satan', nobody understands it in a 'pure linguistic' sense (what ever that means; the expression of 'pure' lingusitic sense' is against all linguistic principles; languages, their usages and esp. the words 'invented' for certain religious, political constructs constantly change over and over again to adapt) which is just 'opposer' and nothing more. It's become a term for a supernatural entity. So it really doesn't matter what it means in Hebrew.


However, all that aside, the problem here is translating 'Mein Kampf' as 'My Jihad' as it was claimed -which was the purpose of the conversation- and sell it to muslims to brainwash masses to serve Islamic terrorism.