New low for political discourse

[GreatLife]

I am a strong believer that everyone should vote. Why? Because at least then you have expressed an opinion.  By not voting, we are allowing passionate nuts to set policy.

We are where we are due to both action and inaction. The solution is never going to be less action on any one part. In fact, the passionate ones HOPE that moderates stay home. Takes less resources to win that way.

[Johan]

I am a strong believer that everyone should vote. Why? Because at least then you have expressed an opinion.

Incorrect. I'm pretty sure there are stats on what percentage of the population votes, which therefore requires that there are also stats on what percentage of the population doesn't vote. I very effectively express an opinion (same as you) every single time I abstain from voting. I could show up and vote and write in Micky Mouse. But I won't do that because I'm not a 5 year old, so I just stay home and accomplish the exact same thing.

By not voting, we are allowing passionate nuts to set policy.

And how exactly do you know that I'm not a nut too?

Listen I've heard all the arguments from tons of well meaning people.

'Your vote is your voice and your voice counts as much as anyone elses'

Wrong. We have an electoral college. My vote counts less in some areas than it would in others and in some cases, it doesn't count at all.

'If you don't vote, then you have no right to complain about how things go'

I don't complain about politics or political issues. Ever. I accept the government we have as is and I support and defend the president exactly the same regardless of whether he ends up being the guy I wanted less or the guy I wanted not at all.

'If you don't vote, you're letting <insert group> decide for all of us'

When I was 18 I registered and started voting. I watched the debates, followed the issues and really tried to do my part to participate in the process. As a result, there were elections where I saw my guy win and I couldn't have been more excited because I did my part and now, things were really going to be better. Except they weren't. My guy didn't really do what he said he was going to do and nothing really changed all that much. And then there were elections where I say my guy lose and I couldn't have been more depressed because now things were going to suck, life was going to change a lot and thoughts of moving to Canada seemed worth considering. Except again, life didn't really change all that much.  I have never once seen my vote make a difference. I have never once seen my lack of voting make a difference.

Present me with a candidate whom I truly feel is worth electing and I will get off my butt and vote for. Likewise present me with a candidate whom I truly feel is worth actively preventing from holding office (...cough Trump cough...) and I will get off my butt and vote against. Beyond that, I simply don't see the point of expending the effort to participate because things more or less ebb and flow within the same range of good and bad regardless of whether red or blue is holding the wheel. If you don't feel the same, great. Then you can and should get out and vote early and often. But don't get your panties in a bunch if I think the whole thing is pointless and decide to opt out. Again, by not voting I am expressing an opinion, same as you.

[stromboli]

Putting "low" and "political discourse" in the same sentences constitutes both a redundancy and a double negative.

[drunkenshoe]

If it's really a first time a republican is trying to pull a stunt like this in a presidential election like Johan described, then it means republicans are actually the ones just voting against. Yes I get what Johan means very close to home , but it also means that balance has changed so much, democrats actually passed the 'voting against' and getting into a new era that could give them space and power make real changes if they wanted to.

Trump can be a moron and this and that, but I am guessing the people who prepares his campaigns, his speeches -at leaast giving the ideas to him- are not. After all, this is a job done for unbelievable amounts of money and they need a real agenda, a strategy to work and probbaly also have experience. That strategy can't be just based on how stupid or ignorant their audience is, can it? 

Now, I don't know if this is something peculiar to Trump or how effective the other republican candidates, but this looks good overall guys, not bad at all.

[Baruch]

The American people reject politics and politicians.  This is the second wave of the 60s ... anti-Establishment.  SCOTUS and Congress can't be held in lower repute.  The POTUS is supported by a small clique, and opposed by a small clique (both for appearances sake) and the majority don't care (see poster above).

Has anyone seriously participated in local politics?  It is a 24/7 profession ... you can't do it part time, or only on election years.  In ancient Athens, you had 4000 upper class guys deciding everything directly (New England town hall style).  Most people in Athens weren't eligible (they wouldn't have fit on the Pnyx anyway).  To get people to not pay attention to their families and businesses ... requires leisure and fanaticism like sports fans.  Any country larger than Andorra can't pull that off.  We should require all US billionaires to be full time politicians, trying to get elected or in office.  We can choose which billionaires we like best (shark tank in reverse).  Millionaires just won't cut it anymore.  I would make the men dress up as Miss America ... they should pay a personal price of dignity for their arrogance.  Presidential libraries should be stone pyramids.

[GreatLife]

First, let me say I appreciate your intelligent response. While I may disagree with you on certain points, you have defended them well.

Incorrect. I'm pretty sure there are stats on what percentage of the population votes, which therefore requires that there are also stats on what percentage of the population doesn't vote. I very effectively express an opinion (same as you) every single time I abstain from voting. I could show up and vote and write in Micky Mouse. But I won't do that because I'm not a 5 year old, so I just stay home and accomplish the exact same thing.

There is a difference though. Not voting only shows that you are part of a large and diverse group who are disillusioned. Voting in protest at a primary tells the parties much more about what you are thinking. A small difference, but I feel it is important.

And how exactly do you know that I'm not a nut too?

It matters little if you are a nutcase. I rely on the laws of average to take care of that. Crazies need to vote just like the rest of the people. They should represent some percentage of the population and voting population. But the only way to ensure the crazies don't end up running things requires representation by all.

But don't get your panties in a bunch if I think the whole thing is pointless and decide to opt out. Again, by not voting I am expressing an opinion, same as you.

My panties are fine... I assure you. I have beliefs about representational government and will always feel free to state and defend them. It matters little if I change any one persons outlook.

And I still say that not voting has, at best, expressed a voice of discontent but has not expressed the more important point of who would be acceptable to represent you.

[Johan]

And I still say that not voting has, at best, expressed a voice of discontent but has not expressed the more important point of who would be acceptable to represent you.

That's the problem. I cannot express via my vote whom I believe is acceptable to represent me if, in my opinion, none of the candidates meet that criteria. Its true that I could write someone in. But the fact that I have to write them in in and of itself generally means we're talking about a person who doesn't actually want the job (or else they would have run). I don't really think I'd want a president who didn't really want to be President. Or congressmen or governor or mayor or dog catcher. And if I write in some fictional character like Batman or whatnot, the only thing I've accomplished is to prove that I don't take the process at all seriously and/or that I've got no class.

But I'll play devils advocate here and admit that there is something I could and probably should do which would at least in some small way serve to express my opinion to those in charge. And that's register. Since I've decided to stop voting until presented with a candidate worthy of my vote, I've also stopped bothering to register. If I register, it puts my name on the list and makes it more clear IMO that I am in fact actively opting out of the process. So I will fix that. I'll put getting registered on my todo list.

[Baruch]

Not being registered ... may also help you avoid jury duty.  And yes, most Americans don't take politics seriously ... they only like to complain about it.  But as I expressed before, taking politics seriously requires someone who is retired or wealthy ... and a political junky.

[Johan]

Not being registered ... may also help you avoid jury duty. 

They use drivers licenses too where I live so no advantage to not being registered.