Recent stuff involving Islam on the forum

[pr126]

The sunnis and the shiia have been fighting each other for a millennia without outside encouragement.
The rift is not new.  Battle of Karbala was the start.

[Solomon Zorn]

Okay, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Grins says, and a lot of what Shiranu says.



Although I can sympathize with the persecution that Grins has gone through, it doesn't help anything to give in to your frustration, and just hate. The mistreatment of anyone based on their thoughts or opinions, is generally unacceptable. It's "do as you'd have done to you," NOT "do as has been done to you." That kind of thinking will lead to perpetual vengeance and war.

Not all the religious are hell-bent on oppression. If liberal Christians didn't stand up for the separation of church and state, then the concept would have no legs at all in the U.S. Most people that I (and doubtless you as well) deal with every day are Christians. Most are good people, and I treat them with respect, which they reciprocate.

But, now, if you're simply defining “persecution” as Christians not being allowed to use public office, or public money, or public spaces, to further their religion, then HELL YES, let the “persecution” begin!



As for Shiranu, I understand better now, after reading your posts on this thread, where you are coming from. I agree with a lot of it. But you had me concerned there for a while: I was beginning to think that you were just one Shahada away from becoming a Muslim, yourself.

Just remember that while most of the religious, of any denomination, are harmless, too many of them â€" THE TRUE BELIEVERS â€" are dedicated to converting, excommunicating, or killing non-believers. Don't be surprised that some people react emotionally to that, and start looking to religion as the cause of those radical opinions. It's a short step, from blaming the religion, to blaming the religious. 

Hate is the enemy. And it often starts with fear. I wish everyone had the capacity to see around their emotional knee-jerk reactions to fear, and not behave prejudicially towards any individual because of their beliefs about God. But not everyone reasons well. A lot of people depend on their leaders to point them in the right direction. That's why there's nothing worse than someone with a pulpit, preaching fear and paranoia.

[Solomon Zorn]

Safety is a prison.

Freedom is dangerous.

I choose the danger.

[GrinningYMIR]

It's a dividing topic but one that has to be discussed. One side is hate towards the religious and the other is trying to reach them in peace because fighting doesn't get us anywhere, ironically attempting to reach them in ways that the religious were told to reach the strangers.

I've been persecuted and hated, so I don't have much room in my heart for it. I don't go out of my way to hurt and I still love my friends even though they're Christians and Muslims. And in one case a satanist. But I don't have much sympathy for them, and I certainly don't think that they should be treated better if they're going to treat me as garbage


There was a people in a book series called the tinkers, they were peaceful people, pacifists to the core, only had dogs to protect them, well one day a war broke out, basically a world war as the forces of darkness were attempting to destroy the world, the tinkers had no defenses and were annihilated. Utterly.

I say this because it's okay to be peaceful and try to reach out in kindness but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't people who will destroy you

[stromboli]

I don't personally care what people post on here because it is a tempest in a teapot. My belief is that the genie is out of the bottle, and Islam will very possibly (eventually, not immediately) consume Europe. Somebody is supporting Boko Haram, ISIL, Al Qaeda and every other terrorist organization and nobody is doing anything about Christian terrorists that are attacking them and atheists and secular targets like Planned Parenthood. Only when secularism has enough clout to finally turn people away from archaic ideologies and we find a common ground that is for human good will a resolution happen, and I don't see that happening.

[pr126]

When Europe is completely Islamized, it will not stop here.
The USA and other western nations will not be left alone.

But seriously, how do you see the world in 20 years time?

[Baruch]

IMHO ... nearly dead planet.  Ecological and human disaster, with little surviving.  Might take more than 20 years.  This has been the assumption since the beginning of the nuclear age.  Now we have climate change and mass extinction of wildlife and biological warfare.

However, pessimism is the enemy, along with paranoia and despair.  Realistically, we shouldn't be alive right now either.  But I live one day at a time, with a circumscribed hope, that I will get one more day to do something positive for someone.

[Hydra009]

There was a people in a book series called the tinkers, they were peaceful people, pacifists to the core, only had dogs to protect them, well one day a war broke out, basically a world war as the forces of darkness were attempting to destroy the world, the tinkers had no defenses and were annihilated. Utterly.

I say this because it's okay to be peaceful and try to reach out in kindness but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't people who will destroy you

That's definitely true.  I don't think anyone here's arguing that malicious people aren't out there or advocating for pacifism.  I emphatically agree that we should protect ourselves.  I think the main bone of contention is how we should treat Muslims who haven't committed any crime.  Some people, and a Presidential candidate no less, have advocated for various retaliations against Muslims as a whole for the crimes of ISIS - that they should be deported or have their civil rights curtailed.  Remember the infamous mosque in NYC "controversy"?  What would these sorts of hate-based policies really achieve other than hurting innocents, degrading Western values, and serving as recruitment fodder for jihadis?

[Solomon Zorn]

I don't personally care what people post on here because it is a tempest in a teapot. My belief is that the genie is out of the bottle, and Islam will very possibly (eventually, not immediately) consume Europe. Somebody is supporting Boko Haram, ISIL, Al Qaeda and every other terrorist organization and nobody is doing anything about Christian terrorists that are attacking them and atheists and secular targets like Planned Parenthood. Only when secularism has enough clout to finally turn people away from archaic ideologies and we find a common ground that is for human good will a resolution happen, and I don't see that happening.

Where's your Christmas spirit? :new_xmas:
Your lack of faith in humanity is making Santa fly backwards! :03:
:a035:

Seriously though, every now and then, kids will give me some reason for hope. Something they will say, or do, that shows they're wise to the bullshit.

[josephpalazzo]

The worst ideology on this planet right now is Islam, not Christianity. Why? Most christian countries have become secularized, and there is little chance that any of them will become a christian theocracy. OTOH, the Muslim countries have not gone through a secularist phase and they are far from ever reaching that. In fact, many of these countries are going backwards to the 7th century Islam - ruthless and intolerant. If you're a non-Muslim religious person, or gay or non-believer, then you are a marked target for the Islamic extremists. Now, in America, most Muslims are being westernized, so they are not the enemy. But in Europe and in the rest of the world, just watch out. These Muslims believe in peace only when the world has been subjugated by Islam. Otherwise, it's just a temporary truce, and any time they can take control, they will.

[Baruch]

But Ted Cruz is the Second Coming ;-)  Theocracy can come to the US.

[Unbeliever]

I've taken to calling him Ted Crude.

[Baruch]

I've taken to calling him Ted Crude.

His father is a Dominionist.  As a Jewish American, I would have to live on a Jewish reservation here , or be expelled to Israel.

[stromboli]

All this gosh darn negativity. The Illuminati has everything in hand and the reptilian overlords will show up in the nick of time to save the elect.

[Draconic Aiur]

Why cant we just nuke syria and get it over with?