Enlisted Women Now To Serve Aboard Submarines

[stromboli]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/enlisted-women-submarine_568385a0e4b06fa68881808b

2016 will be a milestone year for the U.S. military, a year when one of its few remaining gender barriers will be dismantled as four enlisted women become the first to integrate into the crew of a Navy submarine.
The four sailors, who along with 38 other enlisted women completed an intensive basic submarine course in October, will report for duty to the U.S.S. Michigan, a guided missile submarine, in “early 2016,” The Navy Times reported.
The exact date of the integration remains unknown.
In October, the Atlantic Fleet’s top enlisted submariner said the navy was still laboring over the instructions for the integration.
“We are revising our instruction that was -- no kidding -- 49 pages long of excruciating detail on what you wear on the treadmill and how you manage the head,” said Force Master Chief Wes Koshoffer, per The Navy Times. “The instruction just ought to read: We will treat each other with dignity and respect because we are professionals. We have a fraternization policy and until we cross those lines, proceed.”
Captain Andrew Jarrett, the commander of the Naval Submarine School, said earlier this year that the female sailors will be given “the same opportunities as their male counterparts” when they report for duty.
“It will be good for the navy, it will be good for the young ladies, it will be good for the submarine force,” Jarrett said, according to The Associated Press.

I wish Kimmy was here, she'd have something to say about this. This is kind of personal, since I did six patrols on FBM subs during the Cold War. This was inevitable and would happen eventually, but it won't be easy for those ladies and I feel for them. A submarine is about as confined as it gets- you have to pass tests to prove you aren't claustrophobic, among other things. Not a problem for me; I used to explore caves as a kid. You have to be a pretty stable individual.

Honestly believe that women are better suited than men for sub duty, because they seem to tolerate living in close quarters better than men. A woman can do anything aboard a sub a man can do, that is not the issue. The issue is living inside a sub for weeks at a time. Even the Ohio class are not exactly roomy- and it would almost, to my mind, require separate birthing for the women. You are never more than a few feet from each other for all that time. If you can't tolerate human presence up close and personal, you get snaky pretty quick. And I've seen a lot of snaky during my time aboard. One thing you figure out real quick is who has a grating personality; you live with people's personalities as much as their bodies.

And being in close proximity- you have no idea what close is until you spend weeks in a sealed environment with a bunch of men- there will be sexual issues galore. Sad but true, and there will be pressure on them in many different forms and different directions.

There will be a lot of difficulties for them, because even as a man there is a "trial by fire" attitude about how you perform. Just like any other male centered job I've had, you have to prove yourself. Nobody gets handed their Dolphins.

Progress? I hope so. But they are in for a tough go in my mind, and I hope the best for them.

[drunkenshoe]

Oh yeah, I'd like to hear what Kimmy has to say too.

It's not like they are taking anyone who cannot do the job, so gender is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. Must be a very difficult post though, can't even imagine and I like confined places. The whole thing is crashing down another taboo attached to the usual norms and people getting used to it.

Though first ones will have a lot of pressure on them and they need to shoulder that, but also probably they'll be ready for that considering they stepped up.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

Now standard issue  :57:

[stromboli]

Oh yeah, I'd like to hear what Kimmy has to say too.

It's not like they are taking anyone who cannot do the job, so gender is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. Must be a very difficult post though, can't even imagine and I like confined places. The whole thing is crashing down another taboo attached to the usual norms and people getting used to it.

Though first ones will have a lot of pressure on them and they need to shoulder that, but also probably they'll be ready for that considering they stepped up.

The stuff you have to deal with aboard are largely psychological rather than physical. That is why I think women are better suited than men- my experience is they are more tolerant of being close and are actually better team players than men. Where the problem lies is that everything gets amplified over time. If you have a gripe with somebody it gets worse more often than better. I have seen people literally at each other's throats aboard ship.

Women do better in panic situations and I guarantee  you will have some. Shit goes for days all humdrum and then bang powie zap you get hit with something bad, like some idiot flipping the wrong switch and flooding the wrong tank. On a sub, shit goes bad real quick. And everything is amplified, every mistake, every personality flaw. I know they will succeed, but it won't be easy.

[stromboli]

Now standard issue  :57:

Lol. You have no idea.

[drunkenshoe]

The stuff you have to deal with aboard are largely psychological rather than physical. That is why I think women are better suited than men- my experience is they are more tolerant of being close and are actually better team players than men. Where the problem lies is that everything gets amplified over time. If you have a gripe with somebody it gets worse more often than better. I have seen people literally at each other's throats aboard ship.

Women do better in panic situations and I guarantee  you will have some. Shit goes for days all humdrum and then bang powie zap you get hit with something bad, like some idiot flipping the wrong switch and flooding the wrong tank. On a sub, shit goes bad real quick. And everything is amplified, every mistake, every personality flaw. I know they will succeed, but it won't be easy.

Oh I see. Sounds pretty hard.

Well, the difficult part is that they'll be scrutinised just for being the first girls on board. If they can get through that rest will come easy.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

The stuff you have to deal with aboard are largely psychological rather than physical. That is why I think women are better suited than men- my experience is they are more tolerant of being close and are actually better team players than men. Where the problem lies is that everything gets amplified over time. If you have a gripe with somebody it gets worse more often than better. I have seen people literally at each other's throats aboard ship.

Women do better in panic situations and I guarantee  you will have some. Shit goes for days all humdrum and then bang powie zap you get hit with something bad, like some idiot flipping the wrong switch and flooding the wrong tank. On a sub, shit goes bad real quick. And everything is amplified, every mistake, every personality flaw. I know they will succeed, but it won't be easy.

Fair play to anyone with the constitution to do that job, I certainly couldn't.  A mate of mine has been a submariner for over ten years now. There's some scary shit that happens, involving nearly getting crushed by icebergs etc. Remember the 'Kursk' too?  That's one shitty way to die. *shudders* 

[aitm]

No submarine for me. That takes a special kind of breed and it ain't me.

[Baruch]

Admiral Rickover didn't like my grades ... Yes!

Basically my feelings are from WW II documentaries (and a visit to a WW II US sub in San Diego).  The idea of having to sit still, or running ... and having a torpedo slowly catch up to you, and you don't know if you will outrun or out hide it ... until it either doesn't catch you or until it does ... and if it does, you are pretty much toast (pressure hull implosion) ... doesn't sound much like fun to me.

[stromboli]

Admiral Rickover didn't like my grades ... Yes!

Basically my feelings are from WW II documentaries (and a visit to a WW II US sub in San Diego).  The idea of having to sit still, or running ... and having a torpedo slowly catch up to you, and you don't know if you will outrun or out hide it ... until it either doesn't catch you or until it does ... and if it does, you are pretty much toast (pressure hull implosion) ... doesn't sound much like fun to me.

Bottom line is if you hear a torpedo you are probably toast, don't believe the hollywood shit. Top speed of a sub now probably about 35-40 knots flank speed- which is ripping along, trust me- torpedo, no doubt acoustic and homing- 50+. If they acquire your signature on sonar, happy hunting grounds. You can't accelerate fast enough to out maneuver a torpedo, which is feasible only if you are far enough away. Hard to outrun a computer aimed and wire guided fish with a 1,000 pound warhead. One exploding near enough (proximity) is sufficient.

The old saying was the procedure if implosion was imminent to stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. Death, btw, is pretty much instantaneous.

[josephpalazzo]

The stuff you have to deal with aboard are largely psychological rather than physical. That is why I think women are better suited than men- my experience is they are more tolerant of being close and are actually better team players than men. Where the problem lies is that everything gets amplified over time. If you have a gripe with somebody it gets worse more often than better. I have seen people literally at each other's throats aboard ship.

Women do better in panic situations and I guarantee  you will have some. Shit goes for days all humdrum and then bang powie zap you get hit with something bad, like some idiot flipping the wrong switch and flooding the wrong tank. On a sub, shit goes bad real quick. And everything is amplified, every mistake, every personality flaw. I know they will succeed, but it won't be easy.

I hope they do well, but watch out, there are many among the men who will be glad they don't, and some might even do some sabotage.

[Unbeliever]

Get ready for the second baby boom!

[stromboli]

Get ready for the second baby boom!

Is it a coincidence that the missile subs were referred to as "boomers" ? (Fleet Ballistic Missile=boomers) I think not.