What if there is a God and that God is perfect?...

[aitm]

They aren't finite crimes...they're infinite crimes,

Yeah, to a god that created a 14 billion light year where we are in actuality smaller than an atom we require  punishment of a billion gazillion years….you must be a moron.

[bfiddy100]

If the perfect god existed, the universe wouldn't look like the work of an office temp with a bad attitude.

Omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence. Choose two.

Well, unless you can refute that a perfect God wouldn't act as though wrongdoing is a good thing OR say that people haven't done things that they knew were wrong then the reason why there is suffering in this world would be the demonstration of this perfect God's displeasure with our wrongdoing. 

[bfiddy100]

Of course, ANY perfect god would allow us to exist. Do you not understand what perfect means? Punishing anything for a gazillion billion years for a one day fuck up is not what a perfect god does, it is what a two year old does because they are a fucking two year old with no fucking sense.

My understanding of perfect is to always do what is right.  That means that if it is right for someone to be punished for a gazillion billion years then a perfect God would punish them for exactly that much.  I'm curious what you think perfect means.

[bfiddy100]

Yeah, to a god that created a 14 billion light year where we are in actuality smaller than an atom we require  punishment of a billion gazillion years….you must be a moron.

Are you implying that the size of a person determines how much evil they can commit? 

[Baruch]

They aren't finite crimes...they're infinite crimes, which is why the punishment never ends.  But I'm curious why you think a perfect God would never punish anyone.

Yes, all my crimes are infinite crimes ... bwaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOmUW5QyqQ

I look really hot in red!

[Baruch]

My understanding of perfect is to always do what is right.  That means that if it is right for someone to be punished for a gazillion billion years then a perfect God would punish them for exactly that much.  I'm curious what you think perfect means.

G-d usually does what is wrong ... haven't you been paying attention?  There is no such thing as perfect or imperfect.  These are the words of the monkey men.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

What if there is a God and that God is perfect?

Hard to say. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

[facebook164]

What is a "God"?

[Baruch]

Hard to say. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Exactly.  I knew a guy who had an answer to this.  Everything that actually happened, was the definition of perfect.  So if you didn't slide into the ditch on the black ice ... then that was perfect ... and if you did slide into the ditch on the black ice ... then that was perfect too.  And this isn't contradictory, because after the fact, things only happen one way (well unless you count QM).

[Baruch]

What is a "God"?

Usually theologians make up a list of impossible adjectives, and call that "God".  But that is a problem, because G-d makes theologians, theologians don't make G-d.

[aitm]

My understanding of perfect is to always do what is right.  That means that if it is right for someone to be punished for a gazillion billion years then a perfect God would punish them for exactly that much.  I'm curious what you think perfect means.

So, short version/ god is perfect, therefore everything he does is right, because god is perfect, so it has to be right because god is perfect so god is perfect, therefore everything he does is right because god is perfect so it has to be right everything he does is right because god is perfect, god is perfect, therefore everything he does is right because god is perfect so it has to be right,

[peacewithoutgod]

They aren't finite crimes...they're infinite crimes, which is why the punishment never ends.  But I'm curious why you think a perfect God would never punish anyone.

I'm curious as to why you think any crime can be infinite ...err, no - not unless it's choosing mass stupidity over using your good sense. If your God was perfect, then he never would have allowed your brain to think independently, and he never would have allowed his enemies to use it to their own end. Call it "free will" as you wish, but it's still a mistake.

[peacewithoutgod]

Well, unless you can refute that a perfect God wouldn't act as though wrongdoing is a good thing OR say that people haven't done things that they knew were wrong then the reason why there is suffering in this world would be the demonstration of this perfect God's displeasure with our wrongdoing.

That we have a conscience says absolutely nothing to prove your god delusion, but it does demonstrate how sociable animal life evolves. Conscience and other chemically-controlled emotional states are in no way limited to humans, we are different only for being more socially and emotionally complex.

[peacewithoutgod]

My understanding of perfect is to always do what is right.  That means that if it is right for someone to be punished for a gazillion billion years then a perfect God would punish them for exactly that much.  I'm curious what you think perfect means.

That isn't right for any animal with a 60-100 year life span to be punished longer than is comprehensible for it, and once again I must agree with aitm - you really are a moron, and a pathological one at that!

[Mr.Obvious]

They aren't finite crimes...they're infinite crimes, which is why the punishment never ends.  But I'm curious why you think a perfect God would never punish anyone.

And to be honest, I'm curious as to why you think any human crime/sin or collection thereoff compiled within a finite lifetime and affecting finite lives can be considered infinite. I'd like it if you could explain further why they'd be infinite. And if so, should we then never let anyone ever out of jail (unless perhaps they come to accept the great JC)?

But aside from our evidently different view on the (in)finity of (the effect of) our actions, there are two more points I'd like to raise as to why a 'perfect' God would never punish anyone. Though I hope we can get deeper into (in)finity business because why it may not scorn the idea of a punishing god, it does show that christian medieval ideas of eternal punishment are immoral.

The second point is that while more than anything else the necessity to be punished is a sign of a fault on the transgressor's part, the necessity to punish is also a sign of imperfection from the punisher. Allow me to explain.
In the real world this punisher is society as a whole. Sure, there are certain people appointed to judge and 'perform' the punishment. But in democracies this happens (or is meant to happen) with the support of the wider society who agree on the terms and rules. We punish to protect our society and it's people from further crimes being afflicted on them. Isolation of problematic and offending individuals in jails thus fits this role. Also, in some cases as per example a fine, it compensates the wronged party. And just to be complete, the threat of a punishment can prevent future crimes. Lastly I'd like to add a very important one: it also gives the punished person to time to atone for his/her crimes and reflect on his/her behavior; wether it's being put in the corner of being thrown in jail. Meaning that after the crime, this person ought to be able to rejoin society as a whole and complete person, without us holding their past against them. (Wether such reflection and dedication to a new, productive life as well as the acceptance without bias by others actually take place, I leave in the middle, but it's supposed to be this way. And that's an important thing to remember about punishment.)
For these reasons one could argue that mankind will, most likely, always need punishment, to some extent, to protect and regulate itself. And I would probably not disagree on that. But we are a 'flawed' species. Punishment would theoretically become obsolete if we had the power and wisdom to do and know everything. If we could make a perpetrator understand what (s)he did was wrong, and be certain that after teaching this the person would never transgress this way again, there would be no need to lock them up for an enlongated time and thus protect society in this way. And if we were all-knowing and all-powerfull, we could do this and be certain of it. (Mind you this has nothing to do with free will. We could use whatever technique necessary to make the transgressor come to this conclusion on his own accord. We would merely know what to say/do to make them realize this and choose for it themselves.) We wouldn't even need to demand compensation for the crime, for one could argue the transgressor would feel the guilt, probably would probably offer it on his/her own accord anyways after seeing the light and we could help the victim in such a way that the transgression left no mark on him/her anyways. At least we could if we were all-knowing and all-powerfull simultaneously. Seeing as the crimes could be solved and resolved in this way, the need for threat of punishment would decrease significantly on it's own. Though perhaps not completely. But take in accord with this that if we were all-knowing and all-powerful we would know how to convince the populace to choose for themselves to not sin and commit crime at all in the first place! Without the need for threats of punishment.
Now, if you read the above, you understand why I would think an all-knowing and all-powerfull God would have no need for punishment. And let's not forget about that all-loving bit which is usually thrown in there. Now if you're idea of a perfect god doesn't necessitate him to be all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving, then I guess I've spent a whole lot of text on nothing. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that not only you believe your perfect God to embody these traits, you also concider them necessary components for your God to be perfect. If I'm wrong about that, let me know. I might be jumping the gun, but most often when I meet religious people, they claim theirs to be such. And I too would describe these features as necessary to the hypothetical deity.
Before we move on to my last point, I need to adress one more thing. In the above text I explained why I view punishment itself obsolete to an all-powerfull, all-loving and all-knowing being by contrasting it to why it's necessary for imperfect creatures like ourselves when governing ourselves. But in that I mentioned that punishment is also meant in our society to allow individuals to repent and atone for their sins and crimes and afterwards rejoin society without any bias held against them, like the prodical son returned. Hell is not punishment in this regard. It's only torture. Neverending. Eternal. It doesn't allow a person to grow. It does not allow a person to learn from his/her mistakes. It does not allow a person to repent or atone. It's simply infinite cruelty. It does not teach people why they were wrong. It does not teach people why they should avoid such behavior in the future. It does not help transgressors to become empathic towards their victims. It does not allow them to reflect. It simply allows them to burn and burn and burn.

Now the last point. And admittedly again this assumes a perfect god embodies omniscience & omnipotence. As well as that it created the universe. If you say this perfect being of yours does not, then fine. We'll see where the conversation leads but I would think it fair to say we have different views on not only what perfection entails and what a God is. In which case, I have to refer to the the other posters in this thread who've pointed out that perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

This is really an easy point to understand. But you have to keep in mind that, again, this has nothing to do with free will.

You have the creator of the universe. Let's start with that deity. That deity, who is all-knowing and all-powerfull, decides to make a creation. Being all-powerfull and all-knowing the way it designs it's creation is exactly what it intended. This means, inevitably, that all that happens in this creation, is as it intended it too. Every aspect of this reality is thus exactly as it wanted it to be.
Any murder. Any rape. Any theft. Any assault. Any war. Any disease. Any sin. Any crime. All is as much it's design as any 'positive' thing. Any hug. Any newborn. Any act of charity. Any flower. Any act of heroïsm. Everything.
Now at this point in the argument often I get the rebuttle concerning free will. Which is why I explicitly stated that it has nothing to do with it. You need to keep your eye on the big picture here. (Sorry if I sound condensending, it just kind of irks me the wrong way when people fail to understand this.) You can claim all you want that I choose not to see the light. That any criminal choses to rape or murder. Chooses to steal or swindle. Chooses whatever sin and thus chooses to offend, not only against the victim in question but also against god. But that's not the case if your all-powerfull and all-knowing god chose to design it's creation so that it would lead to this. It chose to create all of us knowing in advance what all of us would do and choose in life. It could have built it's creation and it's inhabitants anyway it wanted, with any possible outcome to any possible situation. It would have known how to do this and have been able to, or your god is not all-powerful and/or not all-knowing and thus not perfect. And from the infinite creations it could have created it chose to create  this one.
Simply put: If your god had created a world in such a way that none of it's inhabitors would have chosen to do evil, it would have had as much free will as this creation in which some of it's inhabitors chose to do evil. God could have created us with as much free will as we have today and with none of the actual sins being comitted but chose to set up his creation(s) in such a way that they choose to sin.
Another way to explain this: When god made his creation he saw in advance that we would have this conversation. He chose to create it in such a way that none of us are convinced by your arguments. When he could have created it so that the people you talk to are, just as genuinly of their own accord, convinced by your arguments.
Now running with the hypothesis that this world was created by an all-knowing and all-powerfull perfect being and that thus everything that happens inside it is exactly as it planned, it would be immoral for it to punish anyone for any crime because it's what he designed us to (choose to) do. Especially if this punishment is eternal. It's his will that we choose to sin rather than we choose to live piously. This is not punishing a child for chosing to be disobedient. This is in advance choosing to create child who you absolutely know will choose to be disobedient (you'll know when, how and how much) rather than creating a child who will choose (just as much free will) to be obedient, and then punishing that child for being what you wanted it to be.