A close shave.

[jonb]

You sent all your crazies over here ... what did you expect ;-)

Not all though sadly, and we are still busy creating new ones to replace those we have lost.

PS
And I think you might also realise that many English people think of me as one of the crazies they would love to export.

[peacewithoutgod]

When a public school makes it policy to ban what is banned by a religion, and only because it is banned by a religion, then how is this not a 1st Amendment violation? Fuck that noise, students have every right to express their religious ideas! It's the teachers and school administrators who need to keep their hands off it, and this is precisely what they are not doing.

[Baruch]

I get the Muslim apologist, but I never understood the, "I hate the west!" angle. Ah well...

Part of the "if you are not for us, you are against us" logic.  If you don't believe in genocidal Western imperialism, then you are an enemy of the State.  Pr126 is not genocidal ... and I don't think he approves of Western imperialism ... just to be clear.  What he wants is for Muslims to stay home, and those who have come, to go back home.  Strictly an anti-immigration angle.  Some of his sources however, cross over into the "barbarous" side.  Pr126 also doesn't believe that Muslim immigrants want to or even can (given history) go back home or stay home ... they are army ants to him.

I have no idea how history will go ... but I suspect that however many genuine refugees come to W Europe ... they will stay.  It is possible that economic emigres will be sent home eventually, and this is bad for the Turks, who have been used as guest workers in Germany for decades ... the refugees might be used to replace them.

[pr126]

Baruch wrote:

and I don't think he approves of Western imperialism ...

There is no such thing as western imperialism any more.
For example  Great Britain is not great any more, not for a long time. Not since WWI.

The USA with its 19 trillion debt is circling the drain.
Obama said that he will fundamentally change America. He did. Not for the better either.
No more American Exceptionalism. No more superpower.

[Baruch]

I would be happy for China and Russia to stomp all over the Old World and S America for the next 50 years.  Then those folks will have something to complain about.  Russia is Western and China nearly so.  Just keep your grubby hands off of N America.  The problem is petroleum ... for industry (even off shored to China) and for war.  And that impacts the all important Petro-dollar.

Yes, Obama takes the cake ... but then Bush/Cheney and Clinton/Lewinsky took the US down notches too.  American power is impressive, only when not used, just threatened.  I would not have stopped Saddam in 1991 ... I would have told him that we support him in taking out all of the resources of the Arabian Gulf ... to keep if from being the Persian Gulf.  Blame Thatcher for persuading Bush Sr.  There would have been no 9/11 if Saudi Arabia had been taken out.

[Shiranu]

...and I don't think he approves of Western imperialism ...

For example  Great Britain is not great any more, not for a long time. Not since WWI.

Obama said that he will fundamentally change America. He did. Not for the better either.
No more American Exceptionalism. No more superpower.

I think both of yall might have been mistaken then :P. American Exceptionalism was built on turning America into a nation with it's hands pulling the rest of the world's strings; an empire. Same for his lamentations on the death of "Great" Britain... as an immigrant from a country not part of the Commonwealth, I can see how he could have romanticized it. As a descendant of immigrants from two (three I guess if you count American, but my ancestors got here long after the British were overthrown) countries that were under British rule... I think that romanticization is extremely misguided and "offensive", for lack of a better word.

[josephpalazzo]

Baruch wrote:There is no such thing as western imperialism any more.
For example  Great Britain is not great any more, not for a long time. Not since WWI.

The USA with its 19 trillion debt is circling the drain.
Obama said that he will fundamentally change America. He did. Not for the better either.
No more American Exceptionalism. No more superpower.

Since WW2, the US has taken on the role of patrolling the sea routes unchallenged, and by de facto, became the policeman of the world. However, this is presently challenged by China, Russia, and even Iran on the perception that Obama is a weak leader. All bets are off though with the next president. There is a very strong mood in the Pentagon that the US must make greater stride to strengthen its position as the only superpower.

[pr126]

josephpalazzo wrote:

There is a very strong mood in the Pentagon that the US must make greater stride to strengthen its position as the only superpower.

I hope so.
But voters will vote for the POTUS the media tells them to vote for.
That is how you got a double helping of Obama.

[peacewithoutgod]

I would be happy for China and Russia to stomp all over the Old World and S America for the next 50 years.  Then those folks will have something to complain about.  Russia is Western and China nearly so.  Just keep your grubby hands off of N America.  The problem is petroleum ... for industry (even off shored to China) and for war.  And that impacts the all important Petro-dollar.

Yes, Obama takes the cake ... but then Bush/Cheney and Clinton/Lewinsky took the US down notches too.  American power is impressive, only when not used, just threatened.  I would not have stopped Saddam in 1991 ... I would have told him that we support him in taking out all of the resources of the Arabian Gulf ... to keep if from being the Persian Gulf.  Blame Thatcher for persuading Bush Sr.  There would have been no 9/11 if Saudi Arabia had been taken out.

That makes you no better than anyone who has ever practiced imperialism, regardless of their nationality.

America did not invent imperialism, nor did the British, the Russians, the Ottomans, Genghis Khan, the Huns, the Byzantines, the Romans, the Greeks, the Jews, the Babylonians, nor the Egyptians - it's simply the way of any powerful, hierarchical society supported by agriculture or industrial labor. Say thanks to science and technological development for the death of that practice.

[Shiranu]

Say thanks to science and technological development for the death of that practice.

What?

If you think American (or more accurately, Western and a few Eastern) imperialism is dead... then what is our use of 3rd world countries as factories for cheap goods and food? Sure, we don't officially rule them like the "good ol' days" of Great Britain, the American Empire, the Ottomans, the Romans, etc. etc. , but we still make sure they provide us with cheap goods as basically satellite states. 

I would say imperialism is alive and well, we just learned to not leave a flag for the whole world to see who is in charge and to share the benefits with our neighbours.

[peacewithoutgod]

What?

If you think American (or more accurately, Western and a few Eastern) imperialism is dead... then what is our use of 3rd world countries as factories for cheap goods and food? Sure, we don't officially rule them like the "good ol' days" of Great Britain, the American Empire, the Ottomans, the Romans, etc. etc. , but we still make sure they provide us with cheap goods as basically satellite states. 

I would say imperialism is alive and well, we just learned to not leave a flag for the whole world to see who is in charge and to share the benefits with our neighbours.

You're right, I should have said "decline", not "death". There has been much decline of imperialism worldwide, no exceptions with the US. Recriminations on the past are pointless at this point, as this generation is only responsible for what it does going forward. On account of increased global exchange of ideas and education, and no more new colonies to imperialize, it looks to me like imperialsm will continue to decline in the for awhile, although this could reverse if extreme climatic disasters foment extreme politics in Europe, Russia, and China (maybe the US too).

[Shiranu]

You're right, I should have said "decline", not "death". There has been much decline of imperialism worldwide, no exceptions with the US. Recriminations on the past are pointless at this point, as this generation is only responsible for what it does going forward. On account of increased global exchange of ideas and education, and no more new colonies to imperialize, it looks to me like imperialsm will continue to decline in the for awhile, although this could reverse if extreme climatic disasters foment extreme politics in Europe, Russia, and China (maybe the US too).

Alright, that makes sense.

I will say that I think national empires are on the borderline of death, I think an almost imperial system of more regional communities and corporations as the two main players are rising.

[aitm]

I will say that I think national empires are on the borderline of death, I think an almost imperial system of more regional communities and corporations as the two main players are rising.

while I think I understand your position I am not sure that suggesting A is better that B when both are realistically the same thing  is any a better spot to sit and piss on the rest.

We have several people in the world who have the wealth to buy entire countries….many countries! I am now to the point where any idea of politics has already been stolen by these few. I almost wish for a more diversified power system in this world today but I fear there is a hidden hand behind every thing today and it is driven by the same greed. The new revolution is coming, but there are few face bookers, tweeters, pinteresters, instagramers or other social media zombies that will dare to challenge the power. Eating a carrot may not be as good as eating a steak, but they may believe it is better than eating grass, and there are many who will lay down and be happy for the carrot.

[peacewithoutgod]

while I think I understand your position I am not sure that suggesting A is better that B when both are realistically the same thing  is any a better spot to sit and piss on the rest.

We have several people in the world who have the wealth to buy entire countries….many countries! I am now to the point where any idea of politics has already been stolen by these few. I almost wish for a more diversified power system in this world today but I fear there is a hidden hand behind every thing today and it is driven by the same greed. The new revolution is coming, but there are few face bookers, tweeters, pinteresters, instagramers or other social media zombies that will dare to challenge the power. Eating a carrot may not be as good as eating a steak, but they may believe it is better than eating grass, and there are many who will lay down and be happy for the carrot.

You're right - bring on that Zero Day, watch everything collapse, and rejoice as you literally fight to stay alive with thugs ruling the streets. At least you'll know they can't control everything everywhere, and the few fuckers who set it all up to happen probably came to a bad end.

[aitm]

the few fuckers who set it all up to happen probably came to a bad end.

It will be your fight if you wish to engage, I will be long dead by then .