Hello everyone. Nerdy, animal-loving viking here :D

[Mike Cl]

Great rebuttal.  I'd not seen that ad either; and I do not think of Scandinavia in those terms, but I do think of it in the terms you spoke of.  I've been to Scandinavia a long time ago (Not Finland) and loved all of them.  This was a month long camping trip that stretched from southern Denmark into the Swedish arctic circle, and then back down through Oslo.  All of the relatives on my mother's side are from Sweden, and so my interest in Scandinavia has always been high.  If had had to move from the US, I'd have selected Sweden to move to--relatives would have made the move fairly easy, I think.  I have always regarded Scandinavia as a safe and sane place to live. 

[jonb]

Haha. It's just the hair. Natural blond hair has a funny effect on boys in parts of the world where it's not so common as here. Shame it doesn't work the same on more local boyfriends. Blondes don't hold the same news value here.

Tell me about it, when I was young, blond and working in the arts, I was always attracting the attention of the boys even the local ones. They would do almost anything to get my attention.



Here they are setting fire to my chair at work.

[LadyDay]

But this is kind of a lead-in to your high tax comments.  I knew you paid high taxes, which is probably the number one long term hot button political issue in the US.  People gripe about high taxes, even those that are in such low tax brackets, they don't pay any taxes.  It's like the socialism issue.  Blood pressure rises in direct proportion to threats of higher taxes.  But when I think about it, I ask myself, "What's bad about high taxes, as long as you get it back?"  This is one of our problems in the US.  Our political system is predisposed to the redistribution of taxes.  In our case, much of the tax revenue ends up with the most wealthy, in various forms of political paybacks for legalized bribes given to our leaders.

For example, healthcare would be one way to redistribute taxes back to those who paid them.  One argument against single payer was, "Medical care is too expensive.  If the government provides it, it's going to cost each of us $2000 dollars a year extra in taxes."  Well, now; Let's see:  I would have to pay $2000 dollars a year to the government for health insurance taxes.  Hmmm, but what do I pay now?  Well, before I actually get any money back, I have to meet my deductibles, which back when I did this was $3000 a year.  My employer provided insurance, but at the time, I had to contribute an additional $500 a month out of pocket.  That's $6000 plus my $3000 deductible:  $9000 when I pay it to private corporations or $2000 when I pay it in taxes.  Which is the better deal?

Of course the person who came up with the propaganda was pulling figures out of his ass, just like in than anti-Denmark propaganda.  But considering that this particular healthcare argument's facts were wrong, I could still pay a lot more in taxes and come out way ahead.  In addition, there are so many loopholes and powers of decision over our health care given to private suppliers, so it's not that great, even if you take the financial arguments out of the equation, and just examine the quality of our care.

The point is not how high your taxes are, but how much benefit you get in return, but the knee jerk reaction here is to shut down all thought process when  higher taxes are mentioned.

Denmark sounds like a very nice place. 

It sounds like Americans often feel like their taxes are money out the window and that they don't get anything in return for it? In comparison I'm quite happy to pay my taxes, since, if anything, I get significantly more out of the system in return than what I pay through taxes! I get very expensive treatments at the hospital three times per week, included transport by taxi back and forth, on top of regular doctors appointments and a bunch of medication, all free of charge because I pay for it via taxes. So I get huge value for the money I pay, it's not money out the window.
You are very right that the important factor is that you get good value for the money you pay in. Then it doesn't matter for you as an individual if you pay the money to the state or to an insurance company. The advantage of paying things like education and healthcare via taxes is that it means everyone gets equal access to those things. Less fortunate people do not get lower quality healthcare and they get the same access to education as everyone, so they have a way of breaking out of poverty. I like that!

Denmark is a very nice place I think :-) I certainly enjoy living here. There's no such thing as a perfect country of course and we have things to gripe about here aswell. But we are very proud of and happy about our welfare-system. Though I have no idea if it could work on the massive scale of the US too. And obviously we can't wipe out the better part of the American population with heart-attacks by suddenly requiring them to pay half their income back to the state as tax! Haha. They need to slowly get used to the idea first, and they need to start getting value back for the money they pay in! No wonder they don't like tax if they don't get anything in return!

Now, if you ever come by here for a visit, let me know and I'll take you out and show you around  :06:

[stromboli]

The taxation thing is stupid because in the U.S. practically everything is taxed, and we don't realize it. We pay a tax on gasoline, a sales tax on everything we buy, luxury taxes and so forth. So for anyone to state another country pays exorbitant taxes probably isn't seeing the whole picture in their own country. Just in income tax alone you are paying- in my bracket- about a 30% tax. Add all the other attached taxes and its probably not far off the mark of Denmark.

[LadyDay]

Great rebuttal.  I'd not seen that ad either; and I do not think of Scandinavia in those terms, but I do think of it in the terms you spoke of.  I've been to Scandinavia a long time ago (Not Finland) and loved all of them.  This was a month long camping trip that stretched from southern Denmark into the Swedish arctic circle, and then back down through Oslo.  All of the relatives on my mother's side are from Sweden, and so my interest in Scandinavia has always been high.  If had had to move from the US, I'd have selected Sweden to move to--relatives would have made the move fairly easy, I think.  I have always regarded Scandinavia as a safe and sane place to live.

Thankyou! :-)
I'm glad you have a more fair and realistic impression of Scandinavia and Denmark than what this ridiculous graphic provides. I'm glad you don't think of us as deprived narcissists!
The Arctic is amazing isn't it?!!! I've spend quite a few winter vacations north of the Arctic Circle in Norway. Some friends of ours have a little cabin up there. It's absolutely incredible! We'd be happy to have you here in Scandinavia! :-) The more the merrier.

[LadyDay]

Tell me about it, when I was young, blond and working in the arts, I was always attracting the attention of the boys even the local ones. They would do almost anything to get my attention.



Here they are setting fire to my chair at work.

LOL. Nobody has ever actually set me on fire to get my attention. Now I'm a little disappointed! Hahaha

[CrucifyCindy]

Run. Do not walk from this misogynistic creep magnet that this place is

[PopeyesPappy]

Run. Do not walk from this misogynistic creep magnet that this place is

I can't help but notice that you are still here. What does that make you?

[mauricio]

Run. Do not walk from this misogynistic creep magnet that this place is

ah yes our lovely local "social justice warrior" spewing her baseless accusations of hatred already. Be careful if you get too close it might... just ran away and cry.

[TomFoolery]

Run. Do not walk from this misogynistic creep magnet that this place is

I didn't run away. I just navigate it differently now.

[mauricio]

I didn't run away. I just navigate it differently now.

So who are this misogynist creeps? with quotes please, not vague accusations.

[PopeyesPappy]

*** Mod hat on.

This is an intro thread. Everybody, including me take it somewhere else.

[Unbeliever]

Happy B2F Day yourself mate!
It's comforting to know I'm not the only one who battled that ingrained fear of Hell for a long time. It's incredible how stuff like that can stick long after you've extracted yourself from the religion.

If I must fear the afterlife, I'd rather fear eternal oblivion than fear eternal torture in hell. Oblivion is much less scary. I'd rather not fear it (and I don't), so I can enjoy however much life I'll get. My life is a brief interruption of a very long period of oblivion, both before my existence and after it. So oblivion is my default state, and everyone who has never existed is still in that stat. Oblivion is the great equalizer.

Christians (and others) can never be absolutely certain that they've pleased their God sufficiently to avoid hell. Their fate is still in question. There's a constant "still, quiet voice" in their brains telling them that they may be doomed, no matter how much they've given to their favorite televangelist.

[LadyDay]

If I must fear the afterlife, I'd rather fear eternal oblivion than fear eternal torture in hell. Oblivion is much less scary. I'd rather not fear it (and I don't), so I can enjoy however much life I'll get. My life is a brief interruption of a very long period of oblivion, both before my existence and after it. So oblivion is my default state, and everyone who has never existed is still in that stat. Oblivion is the great equalizer.

Christians (and others) can never be absolutely certain that they've pleased their God sufficiently to avoid hell. Their fate is still in question. There's a constant "still, quiet voice" in their brains telling them that they may be doomed, no matter how much they've given to their favorite televangelist.

Even taking about being in "a state of oblivion" after we die doesn't really make sense... "You" is what your brain does. When your brain does not exist anymore, there is no "you" that can be in a state of anything. It's a weird thought to get used to, the idea of non-existence. Especially when you were taught growing up that you have an eternal soul. But lately I've sort of gotten more used to that thought, and it's made me not fear death anymore. Now that it's sinking in that I won't experience being dead. I won't be sitting around in a dark place missing life. There won't be any "I".
But humanity will carry on as normal after me. That's a nice thought!
And nobody will experience eternal torment. That makes me so happy. That was one of the things that I struggled with back when I was a christian. I couldn't understand how a supposedly loving and omnipotent god could let anybody suffer eternal torment, it did not seem right or good to me.

[SGOS]

And nobody will experience eternal torment. That makes me so happy. That was one of the things that I struggled with back when I was a christian. I couldn't understand how a supposedly loving and omnipotent god could let anybody suffer eternal torment, it did not seem right or good to me.

Even after I realized how intellectually silly the Bible was, and had mostly discarded the idea of eternal torment, on occasion, it would give me the creeps.   That doesn't happen anymore since I have embraced the idea of letting go of unsupportable religious nonsense.  And I can't think of a better description than "nonsense".